DayZ has become Deathmatch / Team Deathmatch

[underscore 12]

As an exalted member of the nefarious Carebear Illuminati, I just want to assure my fellow Bandit Brethren that we are not plotting to remove your freedoms nor do we want to punish you. We are Carebears after all, we want to hug and cherish every last one of you villanous scumbags. This game wouldn't be the same without you.

Let's take the humanity-respawn system that I've been proposing as an example. Many of you think that it's designed to clip your dark, feathery Fallen Angel wings, when in truth it would be the greatest gift ever. Yes, under it the bandit life will become harder and it will de-incentivize many players from being trigger happy, but for the true badasses out there this will be a Godsend.

You want to be the meanest mofo in the valley? Well, now it's going to take some serious balls. Murder is going to mean something. Engaging in it will now make you somebody special, somebody who has the cohones to incur a serious penalty just because you cannot control your urge to kill. Lets's admit it, the guys and gals who love this game are masochists at heart. My radical suggestion may scare and anger you at this moment, but deep down every true bandit amongst you craves the pain, the horror and the challenge of such a sadistic system. Those long lines of notches on the stock of your CZ rifle will transform you from griefing douchenozzles into a gaming elite more hardcore than anything else out there. C'mon, you know you want it. Legends will be born.

[tso 5]

Institute a grace period for new players?

Hmmm a spawn protection that doesn't ever leave until you fire your first shot or make your first kill?

Would allow groups of noobs to come together until perhaps one decides to drop their protection and shoot someone/something and possibly get them selves killed?

not immersive but might break up some of that coastal slaughter.

[kagami 0]

True story' date='

My first 3 deaths in dayz were to people i chose to trust for just a few seconds or a minute in dayz who were in survivor skins.

When i first met up with with the guys who got me into the game, they were in bandit skins from shooting people who tried to kill them.

After that, we decided we wanted to be in bandit skins cause the camo helps you survive. If you're seen first, you're failing at surviving. And if you live through it, that's just plain dumb luck.

Since then i've died like once to a zombie zerg and i learned my lesson...don't trust survivors you dont know. If they're really interested in surviving they'll get to know you before they point a gun in your face. Then you can build trust and get to surviving together, and then there' more of you to take down the assholes you shouldn't be trusting.

If yer a "survivor" and yer looting my well hidden tents, you actually want to punish me for blowing your motherfucking head off?

GTFO and stop trying to carebear the shit out of this mod just to give your damn self an advantage over better players than you that work together and trust each other and see you as the proper damn threat you are to THEIR SURVIVAL which is the one and only point of the game... SURVIVAL. I survive, bitches. Sometimes that means making sure some of YOU dont...regardless of how you think i should be penalized for it.

[/quote']

I know what you are saying but thats the problem, that you got killed. What if you didnt get killed?... let me tell you my story. In balota i see a guy he sees me i used Q/E to say "hi" he also, i walked to him, direct chat worked, we talked for a bit then suddenly i hear someone else talking, turned around, other 2 survis, they joined us, we rolled in cherno, helping, defending, bandaging eachother, we saved one guy on clock tower, he join us, and shows us weapon locations in gratitude we rolled in 5 survis like a boss (you know with slow motion walking toward camera lol), that was the best feeling in game i didnt had in a looong time, unscripted fully sandboxed it was awesome, and i had a couple of stories like that but this all ended in like one week from now. All i ask is that mod mechanics should at least encourage this kind of behavior, all of this would not happen if i just pulled the trigger.

[Dawlight 0]

I have to agree that removing the bandit skins turned this game into a complete death match.

I used to always ask if someone is friendly but now I shoot up everyone because I don't know if they're friendly or not. It's much easier to play now because you just shoot everyone' date=' the "trust" thing just completely floated away, rocket should get it back.

[/quote']

This is my experience too. I haven't met a friendly survivor since the new update. They all just shoot me on sight. Although, too be fair, I have only played 10 hours since the new update came out.

I felt it was a nice dynamic having bandits being clearly differentiated from the survivors, while the co-operative survivors were trying to distinguish between a real friend and a potential bandit. But yes, the bandit specific clothing was a bit silly. I very well know that the world is not black and white in any sense. One is not simply a "bandit" or a "survivor" and the world is not divided between evil and good. It's all about surviving.

But what some people seem to think is that "surviving at any cost" is the absolute truth, and that "of course you have to shoot your fellow man to survive".

They don't seem to consider the other side of things; that there are players who don't want to kill other people; people that come to play Day Z because it gives you other options than killing stuff to obtain your goals. They also see the realistic side of things; the fact that in a real-life scenario, companionship is actually an important factor. Some people may be relying purely on their survival-instinct. But others want someone to share the world with when the skies clear.

But of course you should have the freedom to kill whoever you want. No one wants to take PvP out of the game. Knowing you're a high-value prey because of your loot makes the experience all that more intense.

Co-operation and KoS are the two most popular approaches to surviving which I think should be equally rewarding in different ways, although perfect balance is in practice impossible to achieve as they are highly asymmetrical. There should also be no clear lines between the two, and a dynamic mix and blend should be possible.

But as of now, I think there is a lack of repercussion to being a bandit. If this is in any way supposed to be an anti-game or a simulation of a "likely" post-apocalyptic zombie infested world, there simply must exist some kind of punishment for killing people. In real life, killing a human for some extra provisions and weapons is not an easy thing to do, unless you are a psychopath. Even more so since in Day Z, the human species seems to be almost extinct. You wouldn't want to destroy your last hope of rebuilding the world if there is the slimmest bit of hope.

But people don't seem to think twice before shooting me anymore. They have nothing to lose from killing me; only loot to gain. They don't turn into "bandits" for killing me anymore. And that was just about the only drawback. Now even friendly survivors kill people like it's the easiest way, because now they won't be branded as bandits.

I have a proposal for a solution:

How about a system where humanity affects how zombies react to you? A player low on humanity becomes nervous, sloppy and twitchy in his movements. This makes it harder for him to sneak past zombies, and traveling and scavenging becomes a lot harder.

This may be a bit passive. And it may also compromise the general freedom that both survival approaches are a part of. I'm a bit tired, and this may seem like a worthless solution after some sleep.

[melanko 0]

It's not that bandits and PK'ers should be punished for the way they play, there just needs to be a bigger advantage for cooperation. Something that is enough for even a regular, every day PKer to stop and think, "should I just kill this guy I see or wait and see what happens if we band together."

[Jason (DayZ) 0]

I dont care when i get killed by someone who just instantly shoots me, but when someone sits in trees, with a sniper for hours to pick of people.. its just stupid. My brother and i were at the apartments at the north side of Cherno. Going for hours but we needed to refill on blood packs, we hide in the grass to decide where we will go next. Two seconds later, someone says "Jason and Jay, are you friendly?". Before we did anything, a sniper(same person) on the hills snipes us.

So i go back to the apartments to try get an czech/alice bag and i see our bodies. So.. i go over and my M4A1 and my brothers AK was still there.

He just killed us because it was an easy shot. Didn't go near our loot

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

I talked about the 24 hours respawn, because (at least, that's MY idea), the most important factor that differentiate a videogame from the real life, it's your (single) life. You have to account this when you try to replicate the real life social behavior.

We cannot imagine to give to each player ONE single life... for obvious reasons, but we need to add that "scaring" component someway. Loosing your loot is not enough, first because you can find most of it fast enough, second because you respawn already with the necessary tools to engage a death-match (pretty like a traditional FPS).

The map is big, but not big enough to disincentivate the multiple spawns: you only need few minutes to reach one of the biggest cities, so you wouldn't be scared (read: bored) of doing it many times per day.

Some idea:

- Spawn without a weapon. The downside is that we might then have spawnkiller trolls, since the newbie cannot defend himself. But that's what would happens in real life tho.

- Respawn only after 24 hours. With a grace period for the newbies: in example your first day you have infinite respawn, but then you need to wait 24 hours when you die.

- Incentivate the surviving. Giving a benefit to those that lives for longer. In exampler a steady aiming (due to the experience, for each day passed inworld), more blood, more resistant to the low temperature, you can run faster for longer you remain alive (training) .. i dunno stuff like this that would give to the player with some more brain a GOOD reason to stay alive.

....tbc...

[smoker 1]

Wading into the deep end here on my first post.

I like the idea of increasing the number of zeds, some where between 2 to 4 times the amount currently on a server would probably do the trick. I liked the game much more when there was more zeds in the first place. The way it is right now I really do not "fear" the zeds anymore.

I spend most of my time avoiding people as they have become the real danger. Make the zeds something to be feared and let people do, what people do.

From a "realism" stand point the way the current zeds are there would have never been an zombie apocalypse to survive.

[narco_jones 104]

People need stop relating this to real life. It's a game and in no way mimics real life. In real life, no matter how bad the shit gets, people will not just kill every other person they see. All the shoot first c**t rags do so because there is no consequence for murder...the game can't recreate the conscience and the effect a true murder/killing would have on this.

There is not incentive to work as a group. It's a DM/TDM game now, only on a larger scale than most.

Only thing we need is some sort of character reputation system where people who have survived bandit attacks can spread the word about their attackers so other may spot them. Nothing to crazy...maybe just an option in the contextual menu saying "Pass on bandit description" And vice versa. When you spot a person you can look at you contextual options and have a "Scrutinize Survivor" option...it may very well say that he fits the description of a known killer.

Anyhoo, it's not other players you gotta worry about, it's the damn glithces. Alive for 11 days I and only had shot 3 people but I was eventually killed by a ladder...go figure lol :)

[storm1217 0]

It all depends on who you meet, thats what makes it truly survival. The other day i spotted a newbie swimming in the water so i send him a message " you know you lose all your gear when you go in the water right? " and from there i told him to come to me in the treeline and from there we ended up working together for about 4 hours till zed got him. My first thought was, " fish in a barrel". I went out on a limb to help him and in doing so we built the foundation to any good working relationship. Trust.

[Roflcat 0]

There needs to be a drawback to having negative humanity. Whether it is a game play or a social drawback, it doesn't matter as there is currently ABSOLUTELY NO REASON not to shoot everyone on sight.

[kagami 0]

It's not that bandits and PK'ers should be punished for the way they play' date=' there just needs to be a bigger advantage for cooperation. Something that is enough for even a regular, every day PKer to stop and think, "should I just kill this guy I see or wait and see what happens if we band together."

[/quote']

This. We should reward not punish.

[zalman 1]

this is an anti-game. realism>fun. accept it or move on to WoW.

Its not even a game, its an experiment. If you cant bare it like this you will never be able to. There are other games for you then.

[JohnnyCockroach 5]

I shoot on sight. I'm a really annoying type of bandit. I go around with my friend all around the map murdering people. But we only kill people in self defence or for better equipment.

Sometimes we've been forced to shoot some noob with starter gear, but that was only because they came too close and spotted my friend. I had to take them down because there was no way of knowing if they'll shoot first.

One time we shot a guy looking over Stary Sobor with his sniper rifle. He announced his position, we watched him for a while but decided to shoot first before looting the tents, just to make sure. It wasn't fun, but we had to make sure.

One problem is that there's no good way to put down your weapon. You cant holster your pistol, so you never know if the newbie with a makarov is aiming to your head or just wanting to talk. It's safer to shoot first.

I think the game is working pretty well right now. Big towns are extremely dangerous, wilderness is pretty safe and people tend to either avoid each other or kill each other. That's what you'd expect from a zombie apocalypse.

But the problem is that there's really no way of knowing if a player is friendly and no way of telling your own intentions to others. Teaming up is not the hardest part. It's a lot harder to trust someone not to shoot you in the head the second he no longer needs you.

So is it realistic? Hell yeah. Does is work? Depends on how you think it should work.

The main problem is that unlike in a real zombie apocalypse, in DayZ people tend to do just fine on their own. Everyone has the same skills, so there's nothing you actually NEED from other players. In real life there would be medics, mechanics, gunmen and the occasional useless guy who's only good for target practise. I really dont like the idea of classes in this game, but to be honest, thats the most realistic approach. Players should be teaming up for safety and because they need people with different sets of skills if they really want to survive.

[Talskar 0]

this is an anti-game. realism>fun. accept it or move on to WoW.

Its not even a game' date=' its an experiment. If you cant bare it like this you will never be able to. There are other games for you then.

[/quote']

A flat, shallow design that only has one logical way to play is not realism nor a game.... It's a shooting gallery. This experiment hasn't reached it's conclusion so lets experiment and see what different in-game and meta player interactions may be created. That's what the temperature and illness system could lead to. Infections possibly running rampant in close knit groups. Very interesting stuff.

---

I shoot on sight. I'm a really annoying type of bandit. I go around with my friend all around the map murdering people. But we only kill people in self defence or for better equipment.

Sometimes we've been forced to shoot some noob with starter gear' date=' but that was only because they came too close and spotted my friend. I had to take them down because there was no way of knowing if they'll shoot first.

One time we shot a guy looking over Stary Sobor with his sniper rifle. He announced his position, we watched him for a while but decided to shoot first before looting the tents, just to make sure. It wasn't fun, but we had to make sure.

One problem is that there's no good way to put down your weapon. You cant holster your pistol, so you never know if the newbie with a makarov is aiming to your head or just wanting to talk. It's safer to shoot first.

I think the game is working pretty well right now. Big towns are extremely dangerous, wilderness is pretty safe and people tend to either avoid each other or kill each other. That's what you'd expect from a zombie apocalypse.

But the problem is that there's really no way of knowing if a player is friendly and no way of telling your own intentions to others. Teaming up is not the hardest part. It's a lot harder to trust someone not to shoot you in the head the second he no longer needs you.

So is it realistic? Hell yeah. Does is work? Depends on how you think it should work.

The main problem is that unlike in a real zombie apocalypse, in DayZ people tend to do just fine on their own. Everyone has the same skills, so there's nothing you actually NEED from other players. In real life there would be medics, mechanics, gunmen and the occasional useless guy who's only good for target practise. I really dont like the idea of classes in this game, but to be honest, thats the most realistic approach. Players should be teaming up for safety and because they need people with different sets of skills if they really want to survive.

[/quote']

Is it just me or is that interesting? Player classes? Sure this isn't wow or anything like that but the concept of every player not having everything they need by default. Like the Blood bag needing another player to administer it, forcing people to find people to help them if they're really in need.

[BossFi 90]

When a freshly spawned survivor blindly rushes at me and starts shooting me because apparently he doesn't value his life because he has no loot yet' date=' my immersion is broken, because he's definitely not trying to stay alive with his suicidal act.

[/quote']

Very true because it's impossible to replicate real life consequences in a game no matter how realistic the game try's to be.

The only solution is create artificial consequences as suggest here....

1) everyone spawns with a camo skin.

2) if you become a bandit then you get normal clothes skin that stands out, isnt camo.

So now it's a disadvantage being a bandit.

[Arnoldio 2]

Posts gets lost in this massive flow, so i say again.

Easiest fix to make players afraid of the game and get PKing to a realistic level:

12-24h respawn timer, dependent on your humanity.

Scarcer weapons and ammo.

More zombies, wandering zombies.

[Publik 404]

Posts gets lost in this massive flow' date=' so i say again.

Easiest fix to make players afraid of the game and get PKing to a realistic level:

12-24h respawn timer, dependent on your humanity.

Scarcer weapons and ammo.

More zombies, wandering zombies.

[/quote']

Wow, harsh. I was suggesting only an hour. Definitely NOT EVER based on your humanity. I wish people would stop suggesting things that push one playstyle over another.

[fackstah 31]

lets all do the carebear countdown 4 3 2 1 !

[Shag 90]

As with all things, there is no one quick fix, but a collection of small adjustments could really divert trends and change the gameplay. None of these changes should be abstract constructs like bandit skins.

1. Change zed back to being a threat by:

a) Increasing numbers a lot, especially around high value loot - and I include deer stands. I see a lot of tens set up near 2/3 deer stands for loot camping. A good idea as it is fairly risk free military loot.

b) It is a shame the bug when entering buildings, as this is a large factor in nullifying the zed threat. I can aggro a zombie, run out of town (spawn radius) into a barn (could be 500M away) and calmly pop them all off - no threat at all.

c) As mentioned above, I can outrun zed and not take hits. Can zed be made to hit you without stopping? Or make them faster than you so they can hit you?

d) The above make zed very very deadly, to compensate, remove the unrealistic zig zag attack vector, so I have a better chance of taking out zombies from distance. They're deranged infected with only base cognitive functions - the direct attack line seems more likely.

e) Mess about with detection radious and sight/hearing once the above is implemented, as a fine tuning for balance.

f) Can zed be made to hear you better when coughing somehow?

g) Add anothe "investigate" state. If you don't aggro every zombie when killing one, but the ones within 200M all start shuffling towards you... cool. If you're in the middle of a town, how the fuck do you get out of this one.

h) have some zeds wander into buildings, be stationary in buildings/outside. reduce frequency of vocalisations - have zed be unpredictable and surprise us.

i) Zombie herds moving from town to town.

j) Zombies also sometimes in the wilderness.

Reasoning - forces players to team up to get the best loot and combat the threat of zed, which doesnt exist right now. Its fun getting a team a cover each other against them.

2. Make comms more realistic.

a) Remove all the global chat - this pisses me off big time

b) Direct comms is back on beta servers and this really helps "DONT SHOOT DONT SHOOT".

c) Direct comms briefly increase the sound you give off, maybe zombies hear you?

Reasoning - No man is an island. Without global chat, lone wolf play becomes less fulfilling for many.

3. Reduce food/drink loot

a) Force the use of canteens more, not so much soda everywhere.

b) The above forces people into choke points like supermarkets (change spawn to be just foor/drink) See point 1 about adding larger numbers of zed around high value loot, supermarkets should be dangerous. Add a bandit into this mix!

Increase difficulty, forces teamwork to restock.

4. Add some random events?

a) AI controlled clean up teams? Government sends in crack units to clean the mess up and remove witnesses. Shoot player on sight. Very deadly. Have choppers etc.

b) Unlockable missions somehow? High value loot reward.

c) Make these mostly up north, meaning you need to be about 4-5 hours into a game.

People are becoming bored when they get their cool equipment, give them something cool to do.

5. I really really love the character generation block of 1-2 hours when you die. This fixes many issues like respawning for better start location, deathmatch gameplay style on the coast etc.

Now if we could just solve the issue of server hopping and only playing in daylight servers.

[Arnoldio 2]

Posts gets lost in this massive flow' date=' so i say again.

Easiest fix to make players afraid of the game and get PKing to a realistic level:

12-24h respawn timer, dependent on your humanity.

Scarcer weapons and ammo.

More zombies, wandering zombies.

[/quote']

Wow, harsh. I was suggesting only an hour. Definitely NOT EVER based on your humanity. I wish people would stop suggesting things that push one playstyle over another.

Banditry is easy mode, and that system would further increase the pressure on bandits. There is an option not to die, you know. If youre not good enough, see survival of the fittest. It doesnt favor any playstyle. But with or without it, that range between 12 and 24 is optimal. Its harsh ofcourse, thats what this game is supposed tuo be? harsh, cruel, unforgiving etc...

[kagami 0]

I would love to have "rush hours" in cities in particular times of day f example from 9-12, 15-18, 21-00 a masive amount of zombies apears in big cities (cherno/electro, watches would be then immensely useful) it would make pvp in those times way too dangerous and not profitable from ammunition stand point, everyone would think two times before pulling trigger, and automatically would reward sneaking. It would be awesome, just imagine walking with a bro in some market looting in cherno, friend nervously ask what time is is, you respond "hury up man its only 3 minutes left" he is sloppy and then from clock tower bell sound... both of you are freezed from fear when sound of zombies appears allover you, then a bandit comes into shop looking for shelter... you poing at him he points at you... you both dont shoot cuz you know this will mean death of both of you... oh gooood i would pay for this

[CalUKGR 4]

:) This thread. Seems to be one long procession of 'hardcore' players determined to urge each on towards ever more ridiculous extremes in terms of making DayZ less and less accessible to new players, turning it into an unfriendly, selfish deathmatch. Contrast this to back in the heady days when this mod was still in 1.5.6 and had less than 40k players, considerably fewer servers and not a hint of cheating or hacking.

Rocket, whilst it might be tempting to imagine threads like these should hold sway (people here shout so loud, after all) please remember how DayZ travelled and grew: it wasn't these fanatics, calling for you to turn 'their' mod into their own private fight club that made DayZ successful - it was ordinary gamers coming to it for themselves and, back then, finding something they could still play and enjoy and then spreading the word...

DayZ is fast approaching a crossroads: hardcore marginal obscurity or wider mainstream popularity. You decide.

[Dr Klunk 11]

I've been reading most of the thread, and it is surely an intersting read, and thoughts/motivations.

I have been playing this game for 2-3 weeks, and was also "drawn into" the sandbox game style. I was terrified of the Zs, and so was my friends who joined up.

I have also seen quite a dramatic change in how people play this game - not sure if it's visable in thet stats though. The average player is now much more declined to put a bullet between your eyes, without even saluting or try to communicate. I would however suggest that this is NOT because we have more CoD kids around. I would say that people are MUCH MORE careful.. and paranoid.. than before. A few weeks ago, dying was not much of an issue, because you were amazed by the game, and you were learning it's mechanics. The notion of of co-operating was very appealing to most people, and you were more "ready" to take the risk of beeing killed by a stranger, and acted passively.

After a lot more hours spend in Chernorus, most people have now another angle to the gameplay. It is no longer "New" and other things than just learning the game is more important. People have now characters thas has lived quite a long time, and collected stuff that has taken HOURS of gameplay to collect. This has made us all more careful, and most people are not ready to risk all that investment of gameplay when meeting others. Better to shoot first than to risk beeing shot. Most survivors have experienced a situation beeing killed when trying to "connect". One, two or three times is ok, but you definately become more paranoid the longer your character has lived.

How to make people less declined to shoot first and ask later?

I think that this MIGHT change when the direct communiction voice is fixed. The lack of possibility to communicate with the person you meet defintely makes it easier just to "shoot first. You don't have the time to type "friendly", because if you do the risk is high that you are already dead when typing the last letter."

I also think that Z should be more outspread on the countryside.. making the Z more of a continous threat.. (but this would demand a less speedy Z). ... meaning; when taking a shot at another player, you risk beeing noticed by Zs, thus it is risky business to shoot at whatever you are shooting at.

I think... in Essence...

1) the amount of "bad guys" are not bigger (in percentage).

2) the "survivor type" are more inclined now than before to shoot first, ask later.

3) #2 will improve after Voice is fixed

4) increase of Zs around the countryside,.. not as fast though.

..there are lots of good ideas in here which I am sure will be implemented eventually.

Oh I should mention that I am a "survivior character".. have not yet shot another player, except a bandit who was shooting at me.

[septuscap 42]

1 hour respawn timer? 24 hour respawn timer? What the hell are you guys smoking? Get off this forum and focus on finishing that GED.