DayZ has become Deathmatch / Team Deathmatch

[pvtjohn 0]

So, just to clarify, Ynefel, it's not just the coast now, but also the far north? So, there's a happy area in the middle where these incentives don't apply?

From Ynefel:

"why do I care what some random name on a server I'll never know or meet thinks of me? I'm not killing them to steal their loot, or make life hard - it's protecting what I've got, protecting my friends, and basically making sure I don't lose my shit"

You would not shoot first at someone outside Pusta for these reasons, but would at Vybor?

I have to respectfully disagree. The incentives simply become stronger the farther one is from the coast. Think about it.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I love this mod and am very thankful for the all the hard work that's been put into it. I'm sure the devs will find some way to strike a balance.

[Shanefromwalkingdead 4]

Jesus christ grow some balls people.

This game allows a degree of freedom that is unseen in todays games, hence why its so popular. Even looking at the DaYz survey, most people dont have problems with bandits, its only a vocal 6 percent of the community.

Fuck off, stop trying to ruin another sandbox game. You guys take the worst case senario and amplify it, theres plenty of people that group up in the game and actually do player objectives.

People trying to ruin sandbox games and kill immersion throguh playstyle restrictions, make me sick.

[ynefel 38]

So' date=' just to clarify, Ynefel, it's not just the coast now, but also the far north? So, there's a happy area in the middle where these incentives don't apply?

From Ynefel:

"why do I care what some random name on a server I'll never know or meet thinks of me? I'm not killing them to steal their loot, or make life hard - it's protecting what I've got, protecting my friends, and basically making sure I don't lose my shit"

You would not shoot first at someone outside Pusta for these reasons, but would at Vybor?

I have to respectfully disagree. The incentives simply become stronger the farther one is from the coast. Think about it.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I love this mod and am very thankful for the all the hard work that's been put into it. I'm sure the devs will find some way to strike a balance.

[/quote']

Actually, that's exactly the case. Here's how it usually happens for me:

On the coast, there's just too many trigger happy people. For whatever reason, that's the way it is. I steer clear of that area.

And yes, I'm a LOT less likely to start killing people on my trek to the north areas of the map, because I've usually got bugger all, and I don't see the point starting something when all that's at stake is some food, drink and maybe a Winchester. Certainly nothing worth killing or risking death over. If I encounter someone in the mid areas of the map, I usually keep my head down and move on. There's almost no reason to kill someone.

I rarely encounter or engage people anywhere but around the NW airfield/Vybor/etc.

I appreciate yet more assumptions, I really do, but so far all I can see is people getting cranky because they don't like what someone's saying or the fact they disagree. I've been clear, concise, and polite.

[Scorcho 1]

I've been playing the game for about 30 hours and have only SEEN another survivor about ten times, and been killed by other survivors 4 (one of which the person killed me in self defense). I haven't been to Cherno or Elektro because I want nothing to do with that scene. If you want a scavenging game, stay out of the main areas, if you want to risk getting the good shit, then you gotta stick your neck out there.

[i wub pugs 16]

Today a guy named Krusteh had the drop on me, he had just spawned and I had an AK74 and a Czech Backpack so really, I think he should have shot me.

He didn't, so I broke my rule of shooting on sight. He asked if I was friendly, I said I was, we linked up and headed north from 3 Valleys.

We then met a guy named James in Solnichniy.

3 random guys, one of them with a shoot on sight rule (me) managed to link up by accident without shooting one another and work together to get everyone kitted out.

We didn't use mics, just the chat.

My faith in players has been boosted a little bit despite being shot at in Berezino multiple times today.

I don't think it is deathmatch, I think we still have the ability to make a good community where most players are trustworthy.

[Shanefromwalkingdead 4]

There are some interesting points here' date=' almost seems like a gestation of some kinds of ideas... I'll keep lurking and then put some feedback in on for discussion later. Keep going...!

[/quote']

I've seen many good sandbox titles die for a majority of players, because the developers listen to a very vocal minority. Please take caution.

And remember that player freedom is what gives a sandbox title much of its content.

[-AoXo- 24]

There are a few things I'd like to add:

Firstly I don't want zombies in the wilderness, unless they are right next to towns. I love the guerrilla tactic of heading into a town, seeing what's there, and bailing if I need to. The only problem with this is that zombies often get stuck and confused in the forests. If they had more fluid animations and better AI as in Left 4 Dead this would be less of an issue. In any case I love staying "near" the towns (especially near Elektro), but not being so close as to be "in" the action unless I've run out of supplies and retreating and living in the hills like a hermit.

Secondly, being a sandbox there are no inherent goals aside from "survive". There is as much reason to head to the top of the map as there is to go between Elektro and the Powerstation. It's just what people want to do.

I think, perhaps, to split players up the urban centers, the cities, need to be more populous with very weak zombies so that there is a horde mentality. Players will be chased out.

I also think the coastal areas could do with far less loot, or at least less weapons and ammo and that players start with much less. If you could get melee in then players could be "forced" (in the adventerous sense) out of the cities and into the towns and villages to find even basic pistols.

Lastly, there is no inherent reason NOT to kill other players. Lots of people talk about co-operation being key, but it's MUCH easier to look out for yourself, keep yourself out of danger, etc because you only have to worry about yourself and not someone else startling zombies, worrying that the person you thought was watching your 6 decided to go off into a house, someone starts shooting when you're trying to stay quiet etc. Group play is beneficial IF you go looking for trouble.

I admit though that I am an idiot, so I don't know what the f I'm on about here, but these are my thoughts anyway.

[underscore 12]

I'd like to take this moment to once again push the idea of respawn timeouts that are tied to one's humanity score. To reiterate ("on last week's episode") the concept is simple: each murder (NOT bandit kill) garners the perpetrator a cumulative 2 hr timeout penalty before they are allowed to respawn.

I think this is one sexy mofo of an idea because it should (1) help ameliorate the monotony of a strictly KoS game, (2) make the game harder, and, most importantly of all, (3) make the game more fun. Previously I touched upon some of the social dynamics that would result from this mechanic and now I'd like to expand a little further on those ideas.

Like I said, bandit clans would now have to contend with the likelihood of internal griefing. When killing your badass bandit leader means you can lock him out of the game for days at a time, the temptation will almost certainly be too much for some to resist. Think about it.

First, just as one would expect with a band of murderous cutthroats, mutinies and coup d'etats will become a serious problem. Shoot the head honcho in the back and you have several days to consolidate power before he can come back into the game. Perfect.

Second, I was thinking that bullying might develop. The killing of less popular gang members could start occurring. Some idiot fucks up or misses an easy shot? Kill him, because he deserves to sit out for a few hours or days. Is that cool? Not necessarily, but it's not going to be that simple either. Why? Well, inevitably we return to the first problem: bandit peons have so much less to lose compared to the higher echelon guys with tons of kills under their belts.

Won't this just lead to total anarchy? Well, I'd suggest that anarchy amongst bandits is how things should play out. But, again, it's not going to be that simple. Expect bandit leaders to adopt the elegant solution of just getting others to do their dirty work for them while ruling from behind the throne. Hey, once again, isn't that pretty much how it works in real life? Cool, huh?

Next question: in this kind of system, who will actually be stupid enough to do all the killing? The bloodthirsty psychopaths who just can't help themselves, LDO. And trust me, we'll have more than a few of those; it'll be quite interesting to see who will be willing to sacrifice their own security simply for the sake of getting their sadistic rocks off.

Finally, we'd probably see a system of 'blooding' whereby new bandit recruits would be forced to prove themselves before being allowed to join the group proper - "Wanna join our gang? Go into Cherno and bring back three sets of survivor ears, then we'll talk." After all, if they don't have a sufficient number of kills under their belt, then you can't keep newbie bandits in-line as they won't have yet developed a sufficient fear of death.

C'mon, guys, this stuff could be epic.

To be continued...

Oh, BTW, watching a dayz stream while writing this. Four guys raiding a town. Guess what the orders were? "Remember kill everything. Kill every motherfucking player you see. DO NOT hesitate." Watched a few vids and streams over the past days and I've yet to hear anything different. it's always the same iinstructions. d_d

[SkepticJerry 0]

It's pretty sad when your biggest fear is other players and NOT the zombie apocalypse. I have died twice from zombies but probably 15 times by players.

Zombies I can predict, players I can't. I've sadly resigned to shooting on sight. I had some amazing co-op days with strangers a couple of weeks ago, but that's gone.

[davidcastle 19]

I have always been a follower of the school of thought that the developer creates the world and games, but the players choose their rules.

What I mean by this for example is the developer will create a game and maybe there are many different ways to play it. Maybe some players dislike playing with players that play a different way. What happens all to often though is that the developer will start enforcing rules rather than leaving rules to be enforced by the players.

The genre that has always decently handled this with many titles are FPS's. Due to their nature of connecting to dedicated servers where you can have an admin police those who do not play by the agreed upon rules of the server.

Some examples are pistol and grenades only in BC2. Or zombies in CSS. Or for non FPS titles RP games in SC or WC.

I understand that because of the persistence that does not exist in many of these games, Rocket must police somethings such as not allowing admins to abuse their power for an ingame advantage... BUT what I wouldn't mind seeing is players who do not enjoy pvp should find someone willing to run a non pvp server.

OR on another viewpoint, those who enjoy pvp, but dislike the rampant murdering and "run straight for chern with a mak" gameplay can join a server that maybe has "rules of engagement" Maybe a server which forces those who wish to shoot on sight to announce it when entering the server... or maybe you must announce it to your victim..... I know these rules sound silly... but i'm just trying to give ideas... if it was up to me, PURE PVP kill anything that moves and stop crying.

Eitherway, I do know, Rocket, you will probably have some plan, but please do not take away this great freedom by slowly adding small rules here and there until they stack up... If you want a good example of what happens.. think American law now... Rules slowly stacked up because of complainers until we have a huge burden of rules that condemn you for almost anything.

Give me Liberty or give me another game!

[Sveglia 2]

Less zombies (in a zombie mod), not even can't identify bandits (if you want to be the bad boy, deal with it), shoot everyone on sight type of game (mindless PvP), "I killed you because f*ck you I killed you" macho pose, no "play good guy" incentive, no co-op other than with a IRL friend, CoD kids everywhere.

Sad, but this mod is taking a wrong turn...

[Cromyth 3]

I don't understand why everyone is upset. Arma II, the game itself is about killing other players, now with this mod players can engage each other in terms of survival. Of course there are those that kill for sport, however they usually end up running low on ammunition, stirring up zombies or getting hunted by other players. If you're having so much trouble with people, get a group of friends and stick together. I personally travel alone or go to remote areas of the map where few travel just to see how long I last. I usually spot other players and lay low and wait for them to go away, mostly because I'm paranoid.

It's a zombie apocalypse. You cannot expect everyone to trust each other. There will be backstabbings, there will be gangs that kill others, there will be ruthless bounty hunters. You cannot avoid the inevitable, all you can do is pray that you get the jump on them before they get the jump on you.

I wouldn't necessarily blame CoD for the deathmatching. Personally, if I had to, I'd blame CSS and BF2:PR players, mostly because I am part of the community and it's something they'd do. Not sure where all the carebears are coming from though. Maybe Arma II City Life is more your speed.

[Shanefromwalkingdead 4]

Thanks mod, for deleting my thread after you knew you couldn't win the argument, on why our pro-sandbox threads get deleted, and why threads like this continue to live on.

[underscore 12]

Placing a 24 hr re spawn lock would kill the game/mod.

I certainly don't see how you make a better game by not letting people play your game.

Two words for you guys: artificial motherfucking scarcity. Ok, that was pretty facetious, but give it some serious thought. I'm not going to go into it right now, but if you wish I can elucidate further.

Also, to those that are worried about their freedom, please realize that freedom is essentially what we are petitioning for. Being forced into always playing with a KoS ROE in order to survive is actually limiting freedom. I love PvP and this game needs it, but I don't want to see what should be a complex and nuanced game reduced to this one aspect. I want more choices, more freedom.

[ramulan45 0]

I made a thread about this exact problem a month ago...

[kagami 0]

What makes heroes in zombie movies or tv shows (walking dead nowadays) to stick together forming bands? ONE RULE enemy of my enemy is my friend... if surviving become more difficult ppl will have to team up... how about huge packs of random zombies traveling alongside coast roads from one city to another, or make "rush hours" where every 2 hours HUGE wave of zombies appears in cities (watch would be finally usable), that way would make pvping in cities more difficult and not much rewarding but it would encourage sneaking in for supplies, and even if a bandit see another person, he will think 3 times before pulling trigger in the middle of horde. It would push ppl inland which is reasonable and realistic. My fun with game up now was killing bandits with cz in electro/cherno and giveaway their stuff to some friendly survivors, to hear that joy in chat how they though im gonna kill them and yet he walks away with m4 with ammo fine and dandy cuz of me, its really rewarding to help others at least for me. Problem started just like op said, when this mod become popular, and horde of new ppl played cuz of "omg zombiez" and now really there is literally deathmatch on almost every server. But i think solution to all problems is just like i said, make game a lot more harder, so that when a bandit and survivor meet eachother in the middle of cherno they will instantly shake hands, and sign hold fire treaty for next 30 min.

[dirkyd 1]

it is indeed getting to the point of the CoD style of game.

Yeah like totally, just the other day I was running to my care package and was like OMGZZZZ its a AC-130. Just then some noob bandit quick scoped me from across cherno and stole it. He then proceeded to use to to go 50-0 all up and down the coast and you like totally couldn't spawn.

The ridiculousness of my post is just an over the top example of how stupid that part of your post was. For even mentioning COD in the same sentence as anything related to arma is pretty much blasphemy and you should be burned.

[Griefer (DayZ) 0]

Most of the complaints here seem to be about being forced into playing the game one way, and complaining that there isn't enough punishment for people who want to play it the other (Killing competing survivors for resources... Which sounds pretty apocalyptic to me).

Imagine if PvP was essentially removed? You can now waltz into towns and fire off as many rounds as you want, care-free and competing for resources turns into a race over who can click on the spawned items the first.

I don't kill on sight, most of the time the players who I spot (A LOT OF PEOPLE) I leave be because they're literally not worth wasting ammo on or worth the risk of other survivors hearing me. That's the problem that I see with removing PvP, the element of stealth is gone, zombies aren't hard to hide from but other survivors are. You shouldn't be able to plaster up a giant bill board with your behind on it announcing your position to the server and expect to recieve help, its a fucking apocalypse people. You complain about there not being enough of a disincentive to be a bandit, there's not, if you're a GOOD bandit and don't miss shots, don't fire in stupid areas, and pick high value targets, but shouldn't that be the way it should be? As many have suggested before me, read the road, (Or if you're lazy watch the movie, which is equally good I'll admit) that's the situation this game portrays. In that world the protagonists trust literally noone but each other because they're tied by blood.

I only kill for 3 reasons, if you've got better stuff than me, if you're in the way of my resources, or if I've made a mistake and you've spotted me and it's not feasible/too risky to try and escape. I call that playing smart, I wouldn't last long in a real apocalypse but from reading these posts it's clear how 99% of the population would die if it came to that... Fucking carebears.

[otto18 3]

To piggyback on some of the other posters comments, I too would like to see the game difficulty increased. I already play on the veteran and hardcore servers because of the immersion factor (no 3rd person and x-hair). If the zed count was increased significantly, then I think cooperation would increase as well given you would need other players to team up with to raid a town or village for supplies. PvP is a part of why this game is so great.

[Time Glitch 453]

I'm going to contribute my little bitty bits here.

I think the game is a "deathmatch" because that's what possible right now in the game. Anarchy is possible, while civil society is impossible. The tools to be a slaughtering madman are there: A gun and some friends. The tools for rebuilding society are simply not present: Being able to build structures and protect them from both undead and bandits, being able to easily identify members of society from outsiders, providing a safe environment for commerce and social interaction.

Add in the ability to re-build society and we'll see a drastic decrease in "deathmatching".

[Mourek 40]

I have to agree that removing the bandit skins turned this game into a complete death match.

I used to always ask if someone is friendly but now I shoot up everyone because I don't know if they're friendly or not. It's much easier to play now because you just shoot everyone, the "trust" thing just completely floated away, rocket should get it back.

[kagami 0]

it is indeed getting to the point of the CoD style of game.

Yeah like totally' date=' just the other day I was running to my care package and was like OMGZZZZ its a AC-130. Just then some noob bandit quick scoped me from across cherno and stole it. He then proceeded to use to to go 50-0 all up and down the coast and you like totally couldn't spawn.

The ridiculousness of my post is just an over the top example of how stupid that part of your post was. For even mentioning COD in the same sentence as anything related to arma is pretty much blasphemy and you should be burned.

[/quote']

But he said true, its not about mechanics, its not about gameplay, its about what ppl want to do... and that is to kill others... just that, what else can you do in cod? his point was that this mod is a realistic RPG zombie apocalypse simulator based on the most realistic army simulator... and yet all ppl want to do lately is just kill others... i saw streamers killing just to have highest "killstreak" (and im not really talking about whiskey, who was also doing this shit) no matter bandit or survi... tell me this is not a cod mindset. And its fine really if you want to do just that but lately its more and more of mindless butchering.

[kyriel 45]

I have to agree that removing the bandit skins turned this game into a complete death match.

I used to always ask if someone is friendly but now I shoot up everyone because I don't know if they're friendly or not. It's much easier to play now because you just shoot everyone' date=' the "trust" thing just completely floated away, rocket should get it back.

[/quote']

Agreed.

[aviator.wcc@gmail.com 6]

True story,

My first 3 deaths in dayz were to people i chose to trust for just a few seconds or a minute in dayz who were in survivor skins.

When i first met up with with the guys who got me into the game, they were in bandit skins from shooting people who tried to kill them.

After that, we decided we wanted to be in bandit skins cause the camo helps you survive. If you're seen first, you're failing at surviving. And if you live through it, that's just plain dumb luck.

Since then i've died like once to a zombie zerg and i learned my lesson...don't trust survivors you dont know. If they're really interested in surviving they'll get to know you before they point a gun in your face. Then you can build trust and get to surviving together, and then there' more of you to take down the assholes you shouldn't be trusting.

If yer a "survivor" and yer looting my well hidden tents, you actually want to punish me for blowing your motherfucking head off?

GTFO and stop trying to carebear the shit out of this mod just to give your damn self an advantage over better players than you that work together and trust each other and see you as the proper damn threat you are to THEIR SURVIVAL which is the one and only point of the game... SURVIVAL. I survive, bitches. Sometimes that means making sure some of YOU dont...regardless of how you think i should be penalized for it.

Joined up with one friend, then connected with another guy, then we brought in a 4th then connected through him to a 5th and pretty soon it was like a disney ride through it's a small world after all. Meeting and getting to know and trust other survivors then sorta forming a ragtag group and connecting with others through them there's like 10 of us working together in various mixes becoming more and more competent then we join up with a semi-organized "outfit" and pretty soon we're going cross country on sorta missions or at least objectives to further our survival chances with 10 to 15 people strung out in loose formation.

Now i'm going on probably 72 hours of surviving with this character (in game time) and i got a full set of tools minus a gps, some tents (you aint gonna find them) various ammos and blood bags and meds stocked up, couple extra guns i can swap out....M24 sniper on me and i'm covering my teammates raiding airfields for hours at a time or hospitals or whatever we need.

And here we are....up to 15 players at a time now, trusting each other and working together. Do we shoot others on site in our operational area? hell yea... but if they contact us first or talk first before contact face to bullets, well odds are they may end up joining us if they like...or we can make sure and have them stay out of a general Ops area where they'd end up in a firefight with us.

Or they might be a bandit wnting to know where to look for us...thems the risk but that's why we have people cover our raids with snipers and patrols and try to be as careful as possible. The challenge is welcome but the goal is to survive and improve odds of further long term survival...there is no other goal here. There is no level 60 and end game raid content to be mastered.

Dont die.

Failure is not an excuse to cry for game mechanics to give you an advantage over others or other styles of play, which are probably superior to your own.

[qazdar 1]

I kill to survive ... and i will always kill survivors and bandits too if they team up with them.