DayZ has become Deathmatch / Team Deathmatch

[alex.vague@gmail.com 0]

When a freshly spawned survivor blindly rushes at me and starts shooting me because apparently he doesn't value his life because he has no loot yet' date=' my immersion is broken, because he's definitely not trying to stay alive with his suicidal act.

[/quote']

For the sake of immersion, think of it like this: The player coming at you is a desperate survivor driven half mad through fear and starvation. As you say, he has no loot and thinks his best chance at survival lies in a last-ditch, suicidal effort to kill and rob someone.

How does this affect your immersion at all? I recommend reading 'The Road', it paints an interesting picture of what a post-apocalyptic world might be like. You need to realise that people will be desperate and willing to do whatever it takes to survive in an environment such as this.

A man who has nothing, has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Or you can do what most people do - avoid the coast unless absolutely necessary!

[Steve McAwesome 6]

lol and i dont count the suggestion where you can only respawn every 24 hours. I want people to enjoy the game, not see it die an early and tragic death.

[Gibbonici 9]

When a freshly spawned survivor blindly rushes at me and starts shooting me because apparently he doesn't value his life because he has no loot yet' date=' my immersion is broken, because he's definitely not trying to stay alive with his suicidal act.

[/quote']

For the sake of immersion, think of it like this: The player coming at you is a desperate survivor driven half mad through fear and starvation. As you say, he has no loot and thinks his best chance at survival lies in a last-ditch, suicidal effort to kill and rob someone.

How does this affect your immersion at all? I recommend reading 'The Road', it paints an interesting picture of what a post-apocalyptic world might be like. You need to realise that people will be desperate and willing to do whatever it takes to survive in an environment such as this.

A man who has nothing, has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Or you can do what most people do - avoid the coast unless absolutely necessary!

^ This

I've always thought of DayZ as more like The Road than, say, the Dawn of the Dead remake.

[logan23 118]

I understand that people are worried about or seeing at times players are going alone or in a group and just killing players on spot, in theory to get their gear or they enjoy the deathmatch feel- but killing just random people would get boring.

I know some mention to make zombies more powerful so people won't do this but this doesn't solve the mental state of why this is done.

The first is people kill each other for their loot- better guns/backpack/ supplies-

Solution: Allow Players to booby trap their backpack so if someone loots their dead body they will set off a ammo/flare trap that makes noise and injures the looter (none of these are kill traps). This will alert zombies in the area and the looter has to waste some bandage/morphine/painkillers for these items. Also some of the dead player's gear is destroyed/or only items in bag are destroyed due to the trap. The player who places one of these booby traps in their backpack will need items to build this trap plus it takes a bit of room in the back pack. This captures the same fear you find when you meet another survivor.....are they friendly?...but now the person who right off plans to kill you is wondering...does he have a trap in his bag that could waste my last bandage/painkillers just for some gun or ammo? This keeps the Fear state in the players mind.

Solution: Allow players to hide gear/supplies like a squirrel hides acorns, allow there to be hidden at certain points on the map by using a tool/ under a stone. (Now when player kills you they might not get all your goodies and you can go back with the respawn.

The other issue is a player just killing the players for fun- with no real goal but to ruin another player's fun and increase a body count.

Solution: This could be tied to Humanity and possibly turning to a zombie. Since we know that the Zombies in DayZ are based on a virus then we could use the idea of the bite transferring the Virus but the Virus will only make you a carrier since it need key triggers to activate and speed it up as well as to slow it down- or you will die and become a Zombie. Connecting Humanity or the lack of it could be a trigger to activate the Virus in the body due to the chemicals released from killing other people which is a more mentally heavy state then killing a zombie- meaning it's harder for a person to mentally rationalize killing another living person then a zombie/monster.

With a low Humanity- due to killing humans- will cause a counter to start, leading you closer to ending up turning into a zombie, and the more you kill humans and lower this humanity- speeds up this process. There will be ways to slow it down and even hold it in stasis- Like with losing Blood where bandage will stop you from bleeding.

These two ideas could help in keeping players from doing PKing for fun verse Pking because of defense or simply lack of trust in the other player.

Team focus goals would also stop some of these but these two i mention above will slow playerkiller teams from hunting others.

This is food for thought.

[Vuash 0]

you not counting all the people you didnt see but who saw you & didnt shoot ;)

this!

rep +1

[Talskar 0]

Why do people get so worked up over PvP? I have died many' date=' many times in this game and will probably die many more. It's part of the enjoyment of the game. The fact that you could potentially be shot down at any time is what makes it so much fun.

[/quote']

Because some people actually try to survive as long as possible. One of the main problems is that a freshly spawned survivor's life has absolutely zero value. He has nothing to lose. If he dies, he's back again in 5 minutes, while someone that stayed alive for a week has much more to lose.

When a freshly spawned survivor blindly rushes at me and starts shooting me because apparently he doesn't value his life because he has no loot yet, my immersion is broken, because he's definitely not trying to stay alive with his suicidal act.

That's it there. The Loop for the Survivor play style is a well established one. Sneak + Looting + Loot Drop % + Time = more items of value. The typical grind, rinse and Repeat for more and better items. This puts a higher and higher value to your items and character.

The Bandit play style has a much smaller and chaotic Loop. It's where the Time and Loot Drop % are irrelevant because that work has already been done by another player who's going to inherently "keep the good stuff." This equates to a lower associated value to the players character and items. With less value, there's less risk. Every new player at the beach knows this. So essentially, it's too easy to be a bandit.

Survival is hard. Survival in this game is hard. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to prefer a route to survival that requires the least amount of "work" and risk. And that's killing the guy next to you for their stuff. This may be an "Anti-game" but that doesn't mean game theory is suddenly irrelevant (and no, I'm not talking about just games for entertainment theory but proper game theory). And the prevalence of murders in the current system is evidence that people will still act in their own self interest.

Bandit Skins creates risk for bandits and bandit behavior. Large groups of armed survivors are risks to bandits. Large number of zombies are risks to small groups of everybody... including bandits. If anything, DayZ updates as of late, are making things easier for bandits.

I'm not saying the old system was perfect, I'm not saying the new one is perfect. DayZ is constantly evolving in both design and meta this i know. Bandits and anarchy are essential for the unique experiences this mod creates and it would be terrible to change that but the bandit play style is just too easy to play.

So Come on DayZ Devs... Stop making this mod so damn easy.

[underscore 12]

hearing a LOT of complaining about pvp but not ONE SINGLE SUGGESTION on how it can be curbed or discouraged. anybody?

You're not very good at this reading thing, are you? Try going back a handful of posts, smart guy.

[Bhruic 1]

Because some people actually try to survive as long as possible. One of the main problems is that a freshly spawned survivor's life has absolutely zero value. He has nothing to lose. If he dies' date=' he's back again in 5 minutes, while someone that stayed alive for a week has much more to lose.

When a freshly spawned survivor blindly rushes at me and starts shooting me because apparently he doesn't value his life because he has no loot yet, my immersion is broken, because he's definitely not trying to stay alive with his suicidal act.

[/quote']

You've stayed alive for a week hanging out in spots where there are freshly spawned survivors? That seems like a poor choice right there. But leaving that aside, how often is it the case that it's a freshly spawned survivor that kills you?

What you are describing isn't a problem with the PvP system, it's a problem with the respawn system. Which is fine, maybe that can be modified to some degree. But it doesn't change the way people interact on meeting. Not having freshly spawned survivors rushing you won't stop you from getting shot in the back by the guy who claimed he was friendly. It won't stop you getting shot by the guy who's sitting there when you walk round a corner. It won't stop you getting shot by the guy who's got you in his sniper scope.

[ynefel 38]

All these complaints usually come from people that are just bitching because 'it's too hard', etc. Also, most of the rampant killing occurs on the coast and in areas like Elektro and Cherno. What a surprise. Higher quantities of people fighting over limited supplies. No shit?

Here's the rundown:

If it's too hard for you, go play something else. If not, try leaving the starting area. If you head inland, the rules are far different. Although, heading to the NW Airfield is like approaching the wild west, so you still need to be wary. That's not people being assholes though, that's people who have taken a decent journey to get where they are, and also want to protect their loot.

I spend most of my time up north, and I only play with 2 people I know in real life, and we communicate over Steam chat. Everyone else is kill on sight. I'm not being a bastard, but why do I care what some random name on a server I'll never know or meet thinks of me? I'm not killing them to steal their loot, or make life hard - it's protecting what I've got, protecting my friends, and basically making sure I don't lose my shit, or have to do the ~45 min trip back up there.

That's what this game is ALL about. Getting the weapons, the gear, the food, water, etc. I'm not playing to make friends with strangers.

There's people that don't understand the game, are just noobs or even trolls who just want to start shit, but trust me. Leave the safety of the starting area, and you'll find it changes the further north you go. Most of the retards in this game are all on the coast. Also, the further north you go, there's better gear, better weaps and a different experience.

So far, this is the most incredible mod I've played pretty much to date, and has consumed my life for the past fortnight. I get whole heartedly sick of people trying to pin the blame on things for them not enjoying the game.

Man up, stop complaining, start venturing outside your comfort zone. If you're getting killed repeatedly, go somewhere else. It's not a difficult concept.

In the ~80 odd hours I've played in the last week or two, I've spent a grand total of maybe an hour in Cherno and Elektro. Too many idiots, or people who are still learning, either way, both types of people are dangerous.

[Akiba92 1]

People fighting over supplies in big towns.

What a surprise

[Suicide Mouse 50]

All these complaints usually come from people that are just bitching because 'it's too hard'' date=' etc.

[/quote']

No.

[ynefel 38]

All these complaints usually come from people that are just bitching because 'it's too hard'' date=' etc.

[/quote']

No.

If not, then they must be slow learners. I've never had this DM/TDM problem that's being complained about. Ever. That's because I don't hang out on the coast. Most people realise, eventually that when you hang out on the coast/Elektro/Cherno, you die. Ergo, don't go there.

You don't have to be a genius to figure that out.

[sirfluffkillington 1]

Longer version elsewhere. Still think it's possible.

Temperature: drops? If it stays too low for too long you get hypothermia: intial shakes (or none since you stop shivering), then weakness - after a while can't run, can't lift a gun or at least shoot it accurately. Too long like that you go into shock (could just do fall over unconscious) and, shortly after, die.Make it reversible right until just before the end. Achieved by proximity to warmth (other player sets up fire next to affected player) and/or a direct item (blanket of some sort'd do. Regaining temp occurs slowly over time, and you're forced prone or sitting for the duration. If you DO recover you're infected (current infection mechanic) anyway and you're gonna need antibiotics too.

Wounds: Get shot you're in trouble. Shaky aim at least. Preferred: legs = forced prone, arms = shakes when aiming, torso = walk only. A person can minister to themself to prevent imminent death, but retains the problems (always prone, shakes, never-run) until another player does a 'full heal' using item: medical toolbox, like a bloodbag works only on someone else. Will stop all the problems and render the injured fit again. Chance of infection to that mechanic, meaning lucky patched up gunshot victim now needs antibiotics. Survivors aren't surgeons in sterile conditions.

More tears, more profit.

[-AoXo- 24]

You know a lot of people are throwing around the Carebear comment and I don't think anyone has discussed instant gratification at all. Prety much all zombie games and movies have had hordes of zombies attacking that get gunned down in a huge slaughter. People come to DayZ expecting that and instead get a zombie version of Lord of The Rings - just walking around all day. And yeah, that can be fun for a while, but after a while, when the whole survival thing goes to shit you don't want to make your way back to "civilisaton" with a 40 minute walk only to have your dick chopped off the second you get there. You just want to kill shit and get your gear back. And fuck, video games are ALL about instant gratification and you can call this an "anti-game" all you want, but it is in a video game format.

I don't know how to get around this. I don't think it's about making the game easier, or particularly faster, but maybe having strong zombies as well as some weak ones around that you can worry about less will help. Maybe being punched in the back won't break my legs. Maybe change it so that there is jack shit loot around the coast and survivors spawn with just enough to last a few minutes so that they HAVE to look for help, so that even if they act like a dick fuck and kill someone who just spawned they'll STILL be left with shit all so, that they NEED to find help to fight past these weak waves of shitty zombies, and move-inland to find better gear, thus thinning out the crowds and having more instant-co-op at the coast, survival/solo in the middle and more bandit work deeper inland where the legitmately awesome loot will be, because who's going to spend 90 minutes going across the map only to risk pvp on a whim? Morons.

/rant I don't even know what I was saying at the end there. I need lunch.

[underscore 12]

All these complaints usually come from people that are just bitching because 'it's too hard'' date='

[/quote']

You couldn't be more wrong. If anything the point we are trying to make is that this game is too damn easy. If I had my way, all you hardcore gangsta' wannabes would be crying rivers of tears. And, I - the supposed ever-loving carebear - would be the one running around cutting your heads off and sticking them on top of all the town gates. Why? Because, if I had my way being a murdering bandit would become a real challenge and something to be proud of, rather than just being another sheep lost in the bleating herd.

[Sgt.Spam 42]

One of these threads again.

[Suicide Mouse 50]

All these complaints usually come from people that are just bitching because 'it's too hard'' date=' etc.

[/quote']

No.

If not, then they must be slow learners. I've never had this DM/TDM problem that's being complained about. Ever. That's because I don't hang out on the coast. Most people realise, eventually that when you hang out on the coast/Elektro/Cherno, you die. Ergo, don't go there.

You don't have to be a genius to figure that out.

Neither one nor the other. A small percentage complaining are people who suck and get killed and come to the internet to complain.

The majority are ARMA veteran players who can probably kill this entire wave of newcomers that think the game is so hardcore with all the QQ.

They don't complain because it's hard, they complain because before this got popular you were always on your toes thinking what would happen when you'd meet a person. When two players faced each other there was a rush of mixed thoughts and emotions. Maybe this person was just like you trying to survive and wouldn't bother you at all, perhaps even help you. Strangers forming bonds in the midst of chaos was very common. You never knew who you could trust and how these situations would end up.

Now everything is obvious, bland, superficial, boring. Just like every single other game there is out there. They took something great that generated so many emotions and awesome immersive moments and turned into a generic pool of piss where everyone is pissing together.

That's why they complain. Killing players is extremely easy, only a moron would have trouble with that. But having an "anti-game" that is unique and singular and always give you something new, this is hard and so they should complain.

[oktyabr 53]

' pid='76720' dateline='1338163929']

I don't know how to get around this. I don't think it's about making the game easier' date=' or particularly faster, but maybe having strong zombies as well as some weak ones around that you can worry about less will help.

[/quote']

Zombies in the wilderness will help "get around this". Spawn them on the dry edges of the map and let them wander inland towards the coast, preferably randomly, until they either hit a farm/village/city or the coast line, etc.

[Arnoldio 2]

I agree with others saying that the best and easiest solution to this bullshit would be to impose long post-death timeout periods before allowing respawns. Better yet' date=' tie the lengths of the lockout periods directly to a character's humanity score - the more ppl you murder, the longer you get to sit out after being killed. Put that into the game and watch all these internet tough guys start tossing toys out of their prams and crying their delicious tears.

[/quote']

THIS, PEOPLE, THIS!

And reduced weapon loot. Make shit scarce!

[ynefel 38]

All these complaints usually come from people that are just bitching because 'it's too hard'' date='

[/quote']

You couldn't be more wrong. If anything the point we are trying to make is that this game is too damn easy. If I had my way, all you hardcore gangsta' wannabes would be crying rivers of tears. And, I - the supposed ever-loving carebear - would be the one running around cutting your heads off and sticking them on top of all the town gates. Why? Because, if I had my way being a murdering bandit would become a real challenge and something to be proud of, rather than just being another sheep lost in the bleating herd.

Whilst I'm enjoying people quoting me, did anyone actually read the rest of my post that followed that comment?

Context is a magnificent thing.

[underscore 12]

They don't complain because it's hard' date=' they complain because before this got popular you were always on your toes thinking what would happen when you'd meet a person. When two players faced each other there was a rush of mixed thoughts and emotions. Maybe this person was just like you trying to survive and wouldn't bother you at all, perhaps even help you. Strangers forming bonds in the midst of chaos was very common. You never knew who you could trust and how these situations would end up. Now everything is obvious, bland, superficial, boring. Just like every single other game there is out there. They took something great that generated so many emotions and awesome immersive moments and turned into a generic pool of piss where everyone is pissing together.

[/quote']

So very well put. This guy totally gets it, but I think we already established that last night. Thanks for the contribution, Suicide Mouse. Rep inbound.

Also,

Zombies in the wilderness will help "get around this". Spawn them on the dry edges of the map and let them wander inland towards the coast' date=' preferably randomly, until they either hit a farm/village/city or the coast line, etc.

[/quote']

Although I'm not sure I completely understand how this mechanic would fix the PK-monotony-fest we're heading towards ATM, but I can most definitely get behind this idea (as well as the other zombie related ones I saw from you last night).

[Suicide Mouse 50]

All these complaints usually come from people that are just bitching because 'it's too hard'' date='

[/quote']

You couldn't be more wrong. If anything the point we are trying to make is that this game is too damn easy. If I had my way, all you hardcore gangsta' wannabes would be crying rivers of tears. And, I - the supposed ever-loving carebear - would be the one running around cutting your heads off and sticking them on top of all the town gates. Why? Because, if I had my way being a murdering bandit would become a real challenge and something to be proud of, rather than just being another sheep lost in the bleating herd.

Whilst I'm enjoying people quoting me, did anyone actually read the rest of my post that followed that comment?

Context is a magnificent thing.

Sorry, too many idiots showing up, lately. All with the talk about "They want it EZ, but DayZ is hardkore". It's getting hard to read entire posts when we assume the entire rest of it will be exactly the same of others.

[lexxer 25]

What was wrong with the bandit skin mechanic exactly?

Dayz has definitely lost something for me with this last patch. If i want TDM i'll go play BF3.

[ynefel 38]

All these complaints usually come from people that are just bitching because 'it's too hard'' date='

[/quote']

You couldn't be more wrong. If anything the point we are trying to make is that this game is too damn easy. If I had my way, all you hardcore gangsta' wannabes would be crying rivers of tears. And, I - the supposed ever-loving carebear - would be the one running around cutting your heads off and sticking them on top of all the town gates. Why? Because, if I had my way being a murdering bandit would become a real challenge and something to be proud of, rather than just being another sheep lost in the bleating herd.

Whilst I'm enjoying people quoting me, did anyone actually read the rest of my post that followed that comment?

Context is a magnificent thing.

Sorry, too many idiots showing up, lately. All with the talk about "They want it EZ, but DayZ is hardkore". It's getting hard to read entire posts when we assume the entire rest of it will be exactly the same of others.

That's cool, I basically surmised problems would be reduced if people just got a little more adventurous. Too many people just hang around the starting areas and then complain when they get killed. This game is utterly terrifying to begin with. Zombies, scarce supplies, the massive map, it's crazy.

People will find the game is so much better and more satisfying once you start pushing yourself. This game has taught me patience too. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you're dead. Potentially days worth of scavenging and fantastic items. Gone. In an instant. But that's what it's all about.

My sincerest concern is that this mod will get dumbed down to cater to the masses. I'm not trying to be/sound 'hardcore', but the sole reason I'm enjoying this mod is because of just how freaking difficult it is. I'm not cool, I'm not awesome, I'm just sick of mass produced games that are too easy and hold your hand when you go to the toilet.

Everyone has different experience, expectations and skill levels. However, I resent people that complain when they haven't tried hard enough, and blame the game or other people, or want it dumbed down to suit them.

Not everyone fits that bill, I know, but that's what it often sounds like.

[Sminky 5]

without re-percussions/ rewards for teaming up this once great game mechanic is gone.

In reality, (which is slightly true in game), lonliness would be a big factor in not killing someone, we are social creature after all.

Although i wont shoot someone who hasnt seen me, anyone who does i'll now kill, it's very gamey and a pity.

Someone on another post mentioned how you could 'learn' skills passivly jsut by being in the company of someone.

This sounds like an incredably good idea.