To all server admins

[greigsj2001@hotmail.com 2]

allow us to lock or password our servers without being blacklisted that way we can keep the people we know arnt breaking the rules on the server and keep hackers out

that will give you guys the time you need to find a soulution that can be implemented hive wide and will prevent a large number of these angry posts as if hackers cant get on the server they cant cause problems and then once you guys come up with a solution or stand alone whatever comes first we can re asses the open server policy

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

Actually the shared ban list idea is the money shot. If the script users knew that they were going to get banned from every server running a shared ban list! Surely that would be good deterrent?

Evidence bears this out, of the 3 people who have bothered to contact me since they were banned, all 3 of them were happy to find out they were only banned from my 3 servers.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Gogster

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

lol How can you compare battleye to PB , There is a big difference on what punkbuster can do that battleye cant when it comes to monitoring servers. I know i have never gotten teleported in bf3.

BF3 doesn't have a scripting engine, you're comparing apples and oranges.

[{sas}stalker 108]

Who exactly is doing that?

The common set of rules isn't, per se, a problem. You can ban if you're sure that someone has hacked. The team has no way to magically improve BattlEye's cheat detection (which is fairly decent, as a matter of fact) or fix the fact that some cheaters have now focused on this game, seeing as it is popular. What exactly would you suggest? As long as a cheater does not use a bypass for BattlEye -- which could easily be deployed against many of the admins tools that could be offered, too -- there simply is no scripting that could be caught and dealt with. If they don't use a bypass for BattlEye, your scripts logfile will contain incriminating evidence and the scripts.txt base file, as well as the now existing auxiliary files for remoteexec and vehicleinit do a sterling job identifying those cheaters.

Private hives are, for the most part, placebo. They don't really help, but you can carefully control some parameters which reduce the likelihood of a cheater appearing -- if he does however, he'll wreak havoc nonetheless. Yes, you can ban him then and hope others don't find your server, but that's about it.

There are a few things that could be done by adding script to the mod files, however, a lot of what could be done not only has the potential to be misused badly by those who'd do so, it also slows down the servers -- with many servers barely staying over 10 fps with even moderate player counts, that also isn't an ideal option. The team can't touch the engine and most of the ARMA2 base, so they're patching the holes they can patch, improving what they can improve and hoping to curb some issues while BE is also improving their pre-emptive detections.

Also, please understand that, for the most part, I'm like you. I have slightly more "access" to people involved in the actual coding because I answer tickets and I've discussed a few things with the devs and some guys from BIS who aren't directly involved in the mod. That's all. I recognize that this is extremly unsatisfying and only adds to the other issues many people have; for example, one of my physical servers is consistently ignored by GameSpy, which means I basically have hardware worth $4000 standing around idling because, at best, four or five people connect to the instances hosted on that server. I can even understand that many admins feel ignored or badly treated, but please rest assured, from all my talks with devs and other volunteers involved, I can tell you it's not due to an "us and them" or "top and bottom" attitude, it's sheer momentum, the size of the endaevour this mod has become. It's not like the devs, BE or BIS are stupid or unaware of the issues, it's that these issues are not solveable overnight and that there are only a handful of developers, assisted by another handful of volunteers, right now.

Just for comparison, it took DICE and Punkbuster *months* to effectively curb the massive hacking of Battlefield 3, including nasty "mass murder" scripts that killed entire servers -- sound familiar? There still is substantial hacking in BF3 or other AAA titles developed by large studies and protected by top of the line anticheat tools, even VAC-protected titles like Team Fortress 2, and a lot of what people write sounds as if you expect a tiny mod, developed by a couple of volunteers, to perform better than studios releasing Triple-A titles with budgets in the millions.

So, cards on the table -- what exactly do you think would help and why?

Apologies for the delay (I’m at work). Where to start jwiechers, I think it probably best if I bullet point where things could be improved otherwise it will turn into story board of a post.

1. Trust, its not something you can create but there is currently none, I would go as far as to say that there is a feeling from the Dev team that every host only wants to cheat and there is pretty much nothing we can do to prove otherwise. Whilst this might seem like a minor point that no one should really care about it’s actually getting in the way of improving things. You have entrusted us with your server code and .pbo files but you think we are all running off to find out where our player base pitches their tents.

2. Dialogue, pretty much there is none, I’ve lost count of how many times ive needed some information that only a Dev could answer and I’ve just thought “whats the point”. The forum is so bogged down with “ZOMG hackers” posts that I imagine the team no longer bother reading it.

3.Restriction of information, you had your reasons but the last revision to the .rpt logs made cross referencing and cheat detection a much harder and laborious procedure. You have no idea how useful a “who killed who” entry would be in the log file, which yes “could” be open to abuse but see point 1.

4. An admin section. This has been requested repeatedly and fallen on deaf ears. I know there is some google group but it may as well not exist for 90% of hosting admins. The volume of posts that get lost in this forum (which is a shocking mess I’ll add) is alarming. I personally have been desperately trying to establish what a #60 script restriction for skipping scenes is, has a Dev seen this post?, because I assume that only a Dev that can answer it. We need an area that people who aren’t as experienced at admining can “safely” post log snippets where they will get looked at, not lost on page 8 buried under a mountain of crap.

In the last 10 years I have closed beta and open beta tested several games and on every occasion I have had the ability to engage directly with somebody in the team that can help when it’s needed. We don’t have that here because of point 1

If as an admin I or the guys behind me are asshats then lock me out and shut me down and I’ll come here and applaud you for it, but don’t shut me out before you even know me or my team.

There are many other areas I am sure but I have limited time tight now.

Edited August 13, 2012 by {SAS}Stalker

[Yshido 34]

So, cards on the table -- what exactly do you think would help and why?

Get rid of all rules and a chance for the community to develop server rules on their own. The devs and the whole DayZ team should focus on getting all hands on the bugs right now instead of enforcing these silly server rules. At the end it is the server admin who is paying the bill for the server and not the devs. Give them the power they want to have.

You allready have a forum for reporting servers. Let people use this forum to their needs. If they are the opinion a server admin abuses his power, they can open up a post and force the admin to explain himself. If he doesnt do so, you will see the server will not be used by players anymore.

If a server gets locked... so what. Let them lock the server, it can be for testing purposes or whatever. I.e. I locked our server multiple times today to test out some stuff. You know, it is hard to test when people are shooting at you.

[Yshido 34]

Actually the shared ban list idea is the money shot. If the script users knew that they were going to get banned from every server running a shared ban list! Surely that would be good deterrent?

Evidence bears this out, of the 3 people who have bothered to contact me since they were banned, all 3 of them were happy to find out they were only banned from my 3 servers.

Yes, but only if every server admin can decide on his own to use this list. This way you can make all the script kiddies fear to get their GUID on the list.

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

Yes, but only if every server admin can decide on his own to use this list. This way you can make all the script kiddies fear to get their GUID on the list.

I would like the community to get away from "forcing" people to do anything. But there's no reason why a server admin would not implement a shared ban list that had verified, community added bans.

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

allow us to lock or password our servers without being blacklisted that way we can keep the people we know arnt breaking the rules on the server and keep hackers out

I don't agree with this.

I think a proactive admin using the tools we have available is better than locking him or her self in their room.

[Razzle Dazzle 49]

here is a idea

For the server admins why don't you offer an incentive for example. Since the game is going standalone in the future anyways, Why don't you set a rule for every server admin that pays for a server you are allowed 1 pass worded server but you have to keep 1 public server with same amount of players up not pass worded. This way you can see what regular players play on your server and then they can start playing on the pass worded server cheat free. We all know the problem with hacking isn't going to get fixed, 21 players in my clan quit playing this game due to hacking and all it would of took was a password server and we could of enjoyed the game. All i want is a answer why we cant password our servers.How does it affect this mod playing in a passworded server, Can anyone answer that.

[semipr0 402]

I don't agree with this.

I think a proactive admin using the tools we have available is better than locking him or her self in their room.

Not really. Being proactive got my server targeted and destroyed by metagaming fucktards.

I'm done adminstrating my server....seriously. The hackers can have it. Til I decide to shut it down....which is likely going to be very soon.

Being a proactive admin just makes you a fucking target from all these self entitled little assholes around here that can cook up whatever story they like and REGARDLESS of your logs, they'll get a small army of fucktards behind them that will come fuck up your entire server for having banned someone from it.

Fuck this community. I'm wiping my server and I may just leave it down til the payment cycle ends and its gone from there.

I will no longer subject myself to a set of rules that puts my investment in the success of this game WELL behind the self entitled attitudes of 13 year old children that are all hacking anyway.

Edited August 13, 2012 by semipr0

[greigsj2001@hotmail.com 2]

im still of the opinion that telling people they cant lock there own server that they pay for is Rediculus ive never played a game , mod or not that has such an arogant rule

its like telling someone " hey thats a nice car you just bought .... you can only stear it with your knees " i mean come on what harm would it realy do at this stage allow locking

think about if i a server is always locked people just wont play on it it will not become popular and then wont be an issue its like common sence has went on holiday around here

Edited August 13, 2012 by Kazaki-D

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

im still of the opinion that telling people they cant lock there own server that they pay for is Rediculus ive never played a game , mod or not that has such an arogant rule

its like telling someone " hey thats a nice car you just bought .... you can only stear it with your knees " i mean come on what harm would it realy do at this stage allow locking

think about if i a server is always locked people just wont play on it it will not become popular and then wont be an issue its like common sence has went on holiday around here

You can't have a ranked BF3 server passworded, how is this different?

[jwiechers 92]

im still of the opinion that telling people they cant lock there own server that they pay for is Rediculus ive never played a game , mod or not that has such an arogant rule

its like telling someone " hey thats a nice car you just bought .... you can only stear it with your knees " i mean come on what harm would it realy do at this stage allow locking

think about if i a server is always locked people just wont play on it it will not become popular and then wont be an issue its like common sence has went on holiday around here

So you've never played Battlefield 3 or any other game with consistent cross-server stats where "Ranked" servers suffer some restrictions?

Interesting.

[greigsj2001@hotmail.com 2]

unranked is always an option on all games how is dayz so superiour that it can ignore the requests fo something so simple ?

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

Not really. Being proactive got my server targeted and destroyed by metagaming fucktards.

They come and go in spurts - all I know is over 200 people are not getting back onto my servers. When I first started there were 100-150 script detection in my log files, now it's down to 20-30.

Could be coincidence, could be that they know my server files get checked every day and you will be banned.

[greigsj2001@hotmail.com 2]

@ jwiechers

no i never played BF3 that should not have any bearing on the points im trying to make in regards to DAYZ

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

unranked is always an option on all games how is dayz so superiour that it can ignore the requests fo something so simple ?

Because BF3 ranking is DayZ weapons and equipment...

Surely you can see that?

[jwiechers 92]

unranked is always an option on all games how is dayz so superiour that it can ignore the requests fo something so simple ?

Simple, it is not currently implemented. No one can say what the future will bring, but you're expecting a bit much from a mod developed by a team of less than ten developers. If you want something unranked, you can go and play Chernarus Apocalypse or Dynamic Zombie Sandbox, both great modifications/missions for ARMA that are sufficiently close to DayZ, yet offer, basically, what you're after. DayZ was founded on the idea of not having "unranked" servers and that's the current status quo.

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

Can we let jwiechers respond to this post:

http://dayzmod.com/f...100#entry676896

There's some really good points in it, and it would be a shame to see it disappear under a load of other posts.

I know I'm guilty too.

Thanks.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Gogster

[Razzle Dazzle 49]

There inst a tool out there for this mod helping us right now, We are losing the battle to hackers and over the months you will see the new players dropping due to hacking. if i was in rockets position i would make the public happy until my standalone game is done. You saw the first response from the dayz team. That is not a answer to the problem , there is only 1 fix from hacking in this arma 2 engine and that is pass worded servers. yeah we can spend days looking through server logs which is a jumbled mess. This game is different then all other games out there in the fact you can save your items that you work hard to get then some idiot comes in and teleports you to the ocean and there isn't a respawn button now, so now what do you want to swim for 3 hours or go play something else.

I don't agree with this.

I think a proactive admin using the tools we have available is better than locking him or her self in their room.

[{sas}stalker 108]

I’m indifferent on the locking of servers, I know it has a rooted history in the Arma community but for me I prefer an open one where I can get a diverse and random playing experience.

I would agree though that being a proactive admin can and will bring pain on your server. We host the DayZ ranked number 1 UK server and 6^th globally and we do ban people (I have a thread running on this very forum listing them). Yesterday just about broke us though and it felt like we were being targeted.

[semipr0 402]

They come and go in spurts - all I know is over 200 people are not getting back onto my servers. When I first started there were 100-150 script detection in my log files, now it's down to 20-30.

Could be coincidence, could be that they know my server files get checked every day and you will be banned.

Maybe. But it didn't stop them from metagaming the situation to their advantage.

I'm not fucking here to do a fucking shit job that I have to pay to do. I'm here to enjoy a game a like...and I've liked this game less and less the more I've had to try to keep a server clean so other people could enjoy it.

I am not going to support a system that forces server admins to toe a ridiculous line in regards to their actions, but holds the players to a level of ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY for their actions.

And when I say zero accountability I'm not talking about BattlEye waking up from a two week nap and banning a few hundred people. I'm talking about the shit that goes on on these fucking forums every fucking day. Servers get targeted and destroyed from one end to the other by butthurt CHILDREN, simply cause they broke the rules and they got banned from a server.

Is there any accountability here? Does the Community Support team take any action against people that metagame server data on forums? No they don't, they don't do anything. Why? Cause Rocket said, in an interview that he liked certain aspects of "metagaming" but no one bothers to analyze that and wonder if he ment "metagaming to the point of rendering servers completely unplayable for anyone". No one cares to ask, Rocket doesn't care to clarify.

Again, like I said I'm done with these goddamn rules. I'm done having to explain myself every time I ban someone. Simply done. We're wiping the server and I'm going to ban anyone that looks at me cross-eyed from then on, til we get blacklisted and then I'm going to laugh and go spend my monthly payment a month somewhere else where its a more productive investment of MY money.

I've tried playing by the rules and all its done is cost me every bit of enjoyment I ever got out of this game. And who gives a fuck? NOBODY. So guess what, I don't give a fuck any more either.

Edited August 13, 2012 by semipr0

[Bulletproof Sandwich 57]

What's the risk of haxx0rz?

Like any online game, the chance will always be there but since this game is hosted exclusively on our servers, it will be next to impossible to have anything that Isn't client-side which means wall-hacks will probably be the only script-kiddie hack you'll encounter and we're taking several measures to prevent that as well.

I had people disconnect in Day Z seconds before they died, will this be an issue in The War Z?

No. While they may terminate their War Z progress, their character will still remain inside the game for a set period of time before being automatically disconnected if they are not logged off properly through a cool-down, much like other MMO's.

I had very painful experiences trying to play with my friends in Day Z due to all the different servers, broken browsers and the lack of map information. Will this be the case in War Z?

As the primary focus of The War Z is to build experiences with other people, Hammerpoint has included a "group" system where you can team up with a bunch of friends, join a server and have everyone spawn in the same place. There are also clans, groups and other social networking measures to be found as described above.

I pretty much only saw male zombies in the screenshots, are there any female Z's?

Yes, there will be female zombies.

May I host my own server?

Yes and no. While we do not allow you to physically host an official server, fully supporting our game, we do give you the option to rent one of our servers to use at your own will. The pricing of this will vary but it is currently starting at around 15.00$ per 70 players server for 30 days. Discounts are given if if purchased with 60-90-120 days rent. The price will climb accordingly if you want the server to support more players.

We are currently evaluating smaller instances with 30 players for roughly 8.00$ - 10.00$ per month.

these are all taken from an official stickied post

http://forums.thewarz.com/showthread.php?3526-The-War-Z-F-A-Q-By-Coeco

read it if you choose to or not

but a 30 slot server for 8-10 bucks and is not affected by client side scripting

sign me up

better than paying close to or more than 40 bucks for 40 slots

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

Said stuff

No one forces you, either check for cheats or don't, but if you don't - don't come here moaning about script users. We know the deficiency in the Arma engine, you've been advised how to combat it. Make a choice.

[beans 93]

Hackers control the servers, and the game. not the admins. Nuff said.

Mine will have the plugged pulled at the end up the month as well.

Heres my thread on this matter, i have made suggestions. I suspect this game will fail before it becomes a standalone if these issues are not addressed soon.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/50290-scripters-hackers-have-more-control-than-me-an-admin/#entry481267

Edited August 13, 2012 by Beans