Reply to Rocket about zombie AI

[arreally 4]

my friends joke that this mod is not a zombie game at all, just a normal shoot'em up game. the zombies are just annoyances

[CalUKGR 4]

Just further reflecting on the 'herd' thing with regard to the infected. Imagine how player groups lucky enough to own either a car or a helicopter could use them to draw large groups of infected away from targets - for instance those wonderful helo searchlights could have a 'moth to a flame' effect on them, leading them right out of built-up areas...

Also, if Rocket and Co are lucky enough to get some talented 3D designers onboard, why not create some new high-value locations scattered around the world such as abandoned research facilities, etc, in which could be found some new, very rare items. Of course, infected numbers around these new locations would be intimidatingly high...requiring extensive planning and recon on the part of player teams prepared to take them on. They might even require several teams acting in tandem to get the job done... A classic risk/reward cooperative scenario.

[Cpt.Vilja 15]

Not sure if it works.. maybe its because of the Arma mechanic. but here what i was thinking of :

I think Zeds should run STRAIGHT to you, if activated. Not how it is know, go left,right,left,right so you cant hit them. I mean they are infected people which want to eat you. They are not going to think of any tactic how you cant shoot them. Sure its get them easy to shot. But i also hope rocket makes them maybe stronger and increase the nummbers of the Zeds in the big towns. The villages are fine !

[septuscap 42]

You clearly didnt read my posts Septus and just come to troll down ideas before you have even considered them in any context at all so go check the other thread and look how I talk about stamina' date=' so you cant not sprint forever. Stamina bar duration is based on current level of food and water . Sprint when out of bar and you burn water level RAPIDLY, just like IRL.

[/quote']

In your last post you said to "just lower zombie speed and tweak aggro and see what happens." Maybe be careful what you say?

Even paired with stamina, shamblers are just too easy to lose. Fast zombies are the only reason PvE is even remotely an issue for players. Most players do tend to kite zombies, but that's mostly b/c of the zig-zag + zombie attack animation issue (allowing players to gain ground). There are also players who get to hills or buildings due to the fact that zombies switch to walk speed. Or up stairs/ladders to hit them one at a time. Or past friendlies so they can gun them down. I've heard zombies are also attracted to flares, but haven't tried that one out yet. I've also seen some one fire off an enfield and have 40 zombies run by me. I started running backwards only to have one of the zombies suddenly stop and turn towards me, it was straight out of a movie.

I just don't see where you're coming from other than "I can't kill them b/c they're too fast." What kind of experience do you expect with walking zombies? I imagine PvP could take on a whole new twist if you actually fight other players AMONGST walking zombies and keep 1000+ in the game at all times (we know the server can handle that, probably more?), but I don't see why players would willingly fight amongst the zombies and give away their position, so it's just fan fiction.

[CalUKGR 4]

I just don't see where you're coming from other than "I can't kill them b/c they're too fast."

I don't see what is wrong with that - it's a valid argument to raise' date=' for many players.

What kind of experience do you expect with walking zombies?

You have to use your imagination. 'Shamblers' can be highly intimidating in large groups. I and others have explained how we think slow-moving infected could be made twice as deadly, especially in numbers, without the need for comedic Benny Hill running about.

[feriluce 2]

I must admit' date=' that I'm a bit disappointed that the zombies are going to stay as they are. I really feel the game would be better with a decently sized makeover of the whole zombie system. Especially the whole homing missiles zombies that instantly know where you are and where you're moving to as soon as they're activated, even if they're 300m away when that happens.

[/quote']

Are you saying laggy zeds won't be fixed?

Well its not really the lag thats the problem, its how weird their sprinting patterns are.

[Horr1d 7]

I can kill the zombies easily, they currently shamble about like real zombies when not on aggro mode as they aggro based on proximity to sound and sight, which is predictable and obvious. I dont know precise ranges here, but let me guess that a 0 to 4 range on the HUD indicate a 0m to 100m range on zombie aggro mode trigger, increasing to 150m to 300m depending on the type of gun fired or noise made, I dont even think they react properly to the light from flares.

If the Crossbow was not so horrendously inaccurate and therefore useless to carry incase of PvP, I bet I could kill many many Zeds with it one by one, abusing their stupidly easy AI to tail them and shoot them in the head.

If ammo was plentiful, I can lead huge packs of zombie to places where they are forced to use the walk animation and shoot them easily in the head too. I currently CAN kill running ones, but I dont have the ammo to waste on the coin toss that is if the zombie zigs and I hit or he zags and I miss.

With my AI tweaks, zombies will hear gunshots at the same range humans can, sending them walking towards it. Noise such as running or stepping on a loud surface will perk the zombies interest and draw nearby ones in for a closer look, NOT turning them into homing missiles (i love that analogy) that instantly know where I am like they have a wallhack. They need visual confirmation of the human to begin attack animation, this could be as fast as you like, just improve the AI and stop the unrealistic zombie/infected person run animations while they sprint at me so I can line up my headshot. I know you said zeds will be improved Rocket, but does an AI system like mine not sound a better one? I dont want to sound ungrateful, this mod has opened many minds to the ideas you have founded, but now you have opened up a can of worms that I hope cant be stopped. You can use this mods ideas to create an Aliens theme, Predator theme and Fallout theme for maps and "Zeds"

I look forward to the new animations and skins for the infected. Can we have easter egg ones that look like famous zombies from films like Bub from day of the dead or Bill Murray in Zombieland?

Oh, and if they are infected people, why call it DayZ? Which I thought stood for Day of the Zombie..

[matheusvltt 15]

Holy tities Christ people.

ALPHA. ALPHA.

ALPHA.

[feriluce 2]

Holy tities Christ people.

ALPHA. ALPHA.

ALPHA.

And as we all know alpha is the time in the development cycle where you need to avoid any and all suggestions. Instead you must look on with complete passivity until release, where you are then required to immediately start complaining about the bad things that has carried over from alpha because noone called them out.

[matheusvltt 15]

Holy tities Christ people.

ALPHA. ALPHA.

ALPHA.

And as we all know alpha is the time in the development cycle where you need to avoid any and all suggestions. Instead you must look on with complete passivity until release' date=' where you are then required to immediately start complaining about the bad things that has carried over from alpha because noone called them out.

[/quote']

Could you please stop being conscendencing? It makes you sound like a A-hole with superiority complex. :D

Back to the discussion, i've never implied that, so yeah, next time you try being conscendencing be sure what the person meant. I mean that i'm tired of people making suggestions about fixing zombies bugs like clipping throught walls, stoping to attack you and what not, when it's obvious that this is going to be fixed. Some things are simply obvious and don't need to be suggested.

[Virfortis 111]

Holy tities Christ people.

ALPHA. ALPHA.

ALPHA.

And as we all know alpha is the time in the development cycle where you need to avoid any and all suggestions. Instead you must look on with complete passivity until release' date=' where you are then required to immediately start complaining about the bad things that has carried over from alpha because noone called them out.

[/quote']

Could you please stop being conscendencing? It makes you sound like a A-hole with superiority complex. :D

Normally I'm against the condescending attitude, but this time I have to admit it was totally justified. We ALL know this is Alpha, which is EXACTLY when we're supposed to be talking about stuff like this.

Alphas are buggy because we're supposed to iron it out. We're removing the stuff that will cause problems on release.

It's Alpha, report it and get back to testing.

[matheusvltt 15]

Holy tities Christ people.

ALPHA. ALPHA.

ALPHA.

And as we all know alpha is the time in the development cycle where you need to avoid any and all suggestions. Instead you must look on with complete passivity until release' date=' where you are then required to immediately start complaining about the bad things that has carried over from alpha because noone called them out.

[/quote']

Could you please stop being conscendencing? It makes you sound like a A-hole with superiority complex. :D

Normally I'm against the condescending attitude, but this time I have to admit it was totally justified. We ALL know this is Alpha, which is EXACTLY when we're supposed to be talking about stuff like this.

Alphas are buggy because we're supposed to iron it out. We're removing the stuff that will cause problems on release.

It's Alpha, report it and get back to testing.

Again, some things don't need to be suggested, because it's obvious that rocket will implement or fix them. Why didn't you read the rest of my post?

[Horr1d 7]

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7597

"My change would work like this... Zombies have the same range of hearing that human players do, but vastly restricted vision. Zombie attack mode or aggro would only occur when the zombie has a visual confirmation of the human within lets say 50m to 150m, varying from zombie to zombie (more variance = more fun). Until a visual has been confirmed, zombies will slowly move towards the direction of the sound or light source (at night time), regardless of what weapon or movement made the sound, with the same range as human players hearing. When a visual is confirmed, they will move at 2x walking speed towards the human for an infinite period of time until killed or vision is lost. When vision is lost, zombies go back into roaming mode, but will roam the location of its last visual confirmation. Hiding will only keep you safe for so long...."

This is my basic idea, its a tweak of AI. It doesn't change the NPC Zombies to anything other than more intelligent, hence more difficult to outsmart and more potential for things to go wrong. They dont have to be Zombies, they can be infected people and move fast, but just make them more intelligent as their current AI is terrible as proximity based aggro is something out of mobs on World of Warcraft. Make getting hit do way more damage with a chance to infect you, requiring an anti toxin item along side food/water/heat to make surviving harder.

Why cant we improve the game, so that even if the humans were removed, the zombies will still go about their natural lives as if in a sandbox of their own? I think this would be really realistic and pretty cool too!

[CalUKGR 4]

Holy tities Christ people.

ALPHA. ALPHA.

ALPHA.

And as we all know alpha is the time in the development cycle where you need to avoid any and all suggestions. Instead you must look on with complete passivity until release' date=' where you are then required to immediately start complaining about the bad things that has carried over from alpha because noone called them out.

[/quote']

Spot-on, fella. :) Even worse are those morons who post some one-liner to the effect that since 'Rocket has spoken on the subject, that is the end of the matter' and we should all obediently shut up and close the thread.

Pfft. Alphas are exciting precisely because they are a time for the exchange of ideas and suggestions, for criticism and for play testing. If not now, when?

[feriluce 2]

Holy tities Christ people.

ALPHA. ALPHA.

ALPHA.

And as we all know alpha is the time in the development cycle where you need to avoid any and all suggestions. Instead you must look on with complete passivity until release' date=' where you are then required to immediately start complaining about the bad things that has carried over from alpha because noone called them out.

[/quote']

Could you please stop being conscendencing? It makes you sound like a A-hole with superiority complex. :D

Normally I'm against the condescending attitude, but this time I have to admit it was totally justified. We ALL know this is Alpha, which is EXACTLY when we're supposed to be talking about stuff like this.

Alphas are buggy because we're supposed to iron it out. We're removing the stuff that will cause problems on release.

It's Alpha, report it and get back to testing.

Again, some things don't need to be suggested, because it's obvious that rocket will implement or fix them. Why didn't you read the rest of my post?

Why're you the judge of what is and what isn't pointless to discuss?

[Zhivago 1]

Holy tities Christ people.

ALPHA. ALPHA.

ALPHA.

And as we all know alpha is the time in the development cycle where you need to avoid any and all suggestions. Instead you must look on with complete passivity until release' date=' where you are then required to immediately start complaining about the bad things that has carried over from alpha because noone called them out.

[/quote']

Could you please stop being conscendencing? It makes you sound like a A-hole with superiority complex. :D

Because the guy who is yelling 'holy christ people alpha alpha alpha' like we're all oblivious to the fact totally isn't being condescending at all.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I really wish people would drop this fanboy crap, it's getting really annoying.

[StrayWolf 1]

I think the Zed are fine. 'Infected humans' instead of 'mindless zombies' might be a more plausible scenario.

Having said that, I think that we need to rethink how the zed spawn, where they hang out, how the migrate (if they move from their spawn points) and whether or not they will roam.

Right now, the zed remind me more of the zombies from The Walking Dead in that they just seem to roam around the area in which they died.

I like the zeds from World War Z or Day by Day Armageddon (great books by they way). Massive zombie hordes that roam around and are attracted by sound and possibly smell. As the body rots, you can bet that their eyeballs are gone...therefore, they cannot see.

Movement...its a tough one. 'Fresh' zed should be able to move like humans but as their bodies deteriorate they should atrophy and start to suffer from rigor mortis (or something similar). There should be some way to simulate their stench as well :-)

What needs to be fixed - just my two cents - is their ability to see/attack you through walls and their ability to walk through otherwise solid objects.

As for their present zig-zag running back attack...that needs to be addressed as well. I consider the zed to be 'mindless' in that they will not plan out their attack...just make a b-line towards you and that's that.

Rocket needs to INCREASE the number of zed IMO and have many more roaming the countryside. Right now...they are easy to avoid and fairly easy to defeat once you have the proper gear...