Health system and weapon damage.

[necroslord 73]

There's a lot of talk about the weapon damage nerf and that it should be reversed. I don't know the exact numbers before / after but anyways I think that health system could have more detail. Since in real life you mostly don't die instantly when being shot I have the following general vision:

1.-Headshots still instant kills with any weapon.

2.-Getting shot causes instant pain, bleeding and slows movement speed.

3.-Getting shot has a chance to incapacitate/knockout (40%-90% depending on weapon) for a long period of time (about 1 minute, just an idea). This would still allow you to kill with few shots even with a makarov since you can finish off your target on the floor or just grab stuff and leave. Also if your life is spared you have a chance to survive if you wake up soon enough and treat yourself, or in a squad gunfight with some covering fire a friend can drag you and bandage you to potentially save your life.

4.- Getting shot in the leg makes you limp slowing movement speed further, with a chance (60%-100%) of leg wound (similar to broken leg but fades over a few minutes after bandaged without morphine) and a small chance to outright break your leg if the weapon is poewrful enough (0%-50%).

This would make people not that often die from the impact but instead from bleeding out on the floor.

I think a system like this one wouldn't be extremely hard to implement, makes every weapon effective enough without caring much about weapon damage and also would make possible a new option to steal stuff without killing if you so desire. It would also benefit the medic gameplay in teamfights.

What do you think?

Edited August 6, 2012 by necroslord

[Snoobl 5]

Currently it would increase the number of ALT+F4 survivors. Sorry.

[necroslord 73]

Currently it would increase the number of ALT+F4 survivors. Sorry.

I forgot that little detail. However I was talking about a perfect world where cheating doesn't happen that maybe someday we can get.

[bazbake 456]

Well, that's at least more realistic than what we have now. I...guess I can spare some beans.

And maybe people will stop thinking AS50's are plasma rifles.

Edited August 7, 2012 by BazBake

[Zetal 90]

So, I just want to clarify- would weapons still cause an instantaneous loss of blood, or simply trigger bleeding? If so, then I'm all for it. Would be more realistic, and make medical aid more useful. One question, though: does this system ignore organ shots?

[necroslord 73]

So, I just want to clarify- would weapons still cause an instantaneous loss of blood, or simply trigger bleeding? If so, then I'm all for it. Would be more realistic, and make medical aid more useful. One question, though: does this system ignore organ shots?

They could cause instant blood loss, or the magntude of the bleeding could be greater, the more powerful the weapon is. About organ damage, well, I tried to keep it simple and functional so it is viable with the engine limitations. Also I don't know if that much realism would be worth the additional work.

[Zetal 90]

I would much prefer the blood loss magnitude system you propose.

On Organs:

If you're implementing limb damage, such as Arms + legs, then (in my brief experience making games- I'm not familiar with the Arma engine) it's only a few more short steps to add more hitboxes for 'organs' that are placed inside players bodies.

Alternatively, the game could simply detect 'torso' shots, and then randomize a chance for an organ hit, I guess.

[necroslord 73]

I would much prefer the blood loss magnitude system you propose.

On Organs:

If you're implementing limb damage, such as Arms + legs, then (in my brief experience making games- I'm not familiar with the Arma engine) it's only a few more short steps to add more hitboxes for 'organs' that are placed inside players bodies.

Alternatively, the game could simply detect 'torso' shots, and then randomize a chance for an organ hit, I guess.

Hitboxes would be awesomely rewarding for very accurate people. But I don't know how manageable that would be. A random chance on the other hand would be easy (I think). However my anatomy knowledge doesn't go far enough to know all the varieties of effects associated to organs, so I leave that to someone else.

As for bleeding I thought that depending on the weapon power, bleeding could be between 100 and 500 units per second and stacking per bullet (just a fast example, I'm not breaking my head with formulas yet, since it's just concept by now).

For example let's say you get hit by a 7.62 round and you bleed 300 units per second. In perfect condition (12,000 blood) that single shot would make you bleed to death in about 40 seconds if unattended. But if you get 3 rounds you would bleed out in about 15 seconds. Tweaking in numbers would be required but it seems very solid.

Edited August 7, 2012 by necroslord

[Zetal 90]

I definitely like it. =)

@Hitboxes:

These are generally quite manageable in most systems, and Arma already seems to have a basic one built in, ie headshots, broken legs, etc. It simply needs some polishing and additions, and I believe we'd quickly be on track for a much more authentic game. On the 1 in a million chance that Rocket actually reads this...

Well, I'd like to think you could make up your own mind on these kinds of things, but for clarity:

Include this!!

[bazbake 456]

This is so legit!

I got to thinking about anatomy, and most of a weapon's stopping power is its ability to deprive people of blood to the brain and occasionally to stun them with pain. To kill someone immediately with a headshot you have to hit the apricot at the back of the head.

I tossed together a brief, unscientific system:

• Head: Moderate chance of unconsciousness + high blood loss modifier + small chance of instant kill
  
• Heart: Moderate chance of unconsciousness + high blood loss multiplier + high chance of shock
  
• Torso (arteries and bags of pain): Low chance of unconsciousness + moderate blood loss multiplier + moderate chance of shock + low chance of infection.
  
• Arm: Small chance of fracture + normal blood loss/small chance of moderate blood loss multiplier.
  
• Legs: Small chance rate of fracture + normal blood loss/small chance of high blood loss modifier.
  

Bigger bullets would cause greater bleeding. And then depending on the hit an additional modifier.

E.g., 100 base bleeding x 2 moderate bleeding = 200 bleeding per tick.

Could use more work and some better balancing for unconsciousness and shock maybe.

[Zetal 90]

<3 this system. I'm surprised it only has us 3 commenting on it lol

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I like this system also, but I think that KO timer used currently should be used to simulate someone being unable to fight due to the fact they are in so much pain/trying to stuff their organs back in. This will lead to better drama in game as you try to save your team mates.

Add in a legit skill system for medical treatment along with a system like this that KO's people and leaves them treatable for a short time but does kill if left unattended and we people would really look for doctors IG and value team mates that had medical training.

IE only full heal from people with medical skill stop death from light injuries with no training.

[Zetal 90]

If you're using a timer for 'unable to fight' it should be separate from the current one so that people in pain can still use ingame chat.

[bazbake 456]

Also, I was thinking about zombies. What if they suffered the same bleeding effects as humans but would only suffer from fractures, unconsciousness, and bleeding?

Combat would change significantly. You'd need headshots to put the zombies on the ground or leg-shots to keep them from running after you. But they'd be especially dangerous because they don't suffer from shock.