The manner and mechanics with which zombies attack - suggestions.

[thee_grandmaster@hotmail.com 11]

This suggestion is based on assumptions and inference based on the mechanics of arma.

It may be based on half truths and / or a misconception or two, if so, my apologies.

Zombies are an integral part of the game. They are the sole reason the senario the players find themselves in exists at all, and as such, should be treated as one of the most fundamental building blocks of the game.

This is not a complaint about their movement (as this has been done to death) but a suggestion or two about their attacks.

As far as I know from reading other forum posts, arma 2, and arma OA have no melee weapons, thus resulting in the hatchet reloading etc. I am assuming the same holds true for zombies. A zombies hit is mearly a small low powered gunshot with the guns sound file replaced by the "kuthump" sound.

This leads two two problems:

1. Players bleed from attacks that quite literaly could never result in bleeding.

2. Players can go unconcious from attacks to areas of their bodies that have little to no consequence on their nervous system.

In assuming arma has a hit detection system that can differenciate between head an body (limbs too?) I suggest that this is taken in to account, in place of what I'm assuming is a random pregentace chance.

(Lots of healthy assumptions being made here :-D )

I also suggest that the mechanics of the zombies attack be reworked so that it is not a small low powered gunshot, but a blunt force attack. I know there may be severe limitations in the arma engine in this regard, but like I said, these are the fundamentals, and need to be reworked on a fundamental level.

While I know rocket does not want an overtly realistic game (neither do I) he has mentioned he wants it to be authentic. I don't care if mummahad ali and tyson, both in their prime went to work for half an hour on my arms and legs, it would not result in a knockout. (Though I may never walk again!) The half starved degenerating zombies of dayz should not have the power to do this.

Side note:

I am aware that zombies do not pose the biggest challenge in day z, I know you can just sit outside a town and murder them till the sun goes down (and then some more, with the trusty nvgs) but when I run through a warehouse with 12000 health, having just gotten coyote bpk, nvg's etc. only to be ko'd by a slap to the backpack and losing blood rapidly from a random extremity, the game showcases a major issue in a very basic area.

[Lykaios 0]

This suggestion is based on assumptions and inference based on the mechanics of arma.

It may be based on half truths and / or a misconception or two, if so, my apologies.

Zombies are an integral part of the game. They are the sole reason the senario the players find themselves in exists at all, and as such, should be treated as one of the most fundamental building blocks of the game.

This is not a complaint about their movement (as this has been done to death) but a suggestion or two about their attacks.

As far as I know from reading other forum posts, arma 2, and arma OA have no melee weapons, thus resulting in the hatchet reloading etc. I am assuming the same holds true for zombies. A zombies hit is mearly a small low powered gunshot with the guns sound file replaced by the "kuthump" sound.

This leads two two problems:

1. Players bleed from attacks that quite literaly could never result in bleeding.

2. Players can go unconcious from attacks to areas of their bodies that have little to no consequence on their nervous system.

In assuming arma has a hit detection system that can differenciate between head an body (limbs too?) I suggest that this is taken in to account, in place of what I'm assuming is a random pregentace chance.

(Lots of healthy assumptions being made here :-D )

I also suggest that the mechanics of the zombies attack be reworked so that it is not a small low powered gunshot, but a blunt force attack. I know there may be severe limitations in the arma engine in this regard, but like I said, these are the fundamentals, and need to be reworked on a fundamental level.

While I know rocket does not want an overtly realistic game (neither do I) he has mentioned he wants it to be authentic. I don't care if mummahad ali and tyson, both in their prime went to work for half an hour on my arms and legs, it would not result in a knockout. (Though I may never walk again!) The half starved degenerating zombies of dayz should not have the power to do this.

Side note:

I am aware that zombies do not pose the biggest challenge in day z, I know you can just sit outside a town and murder them till the sun goes down (and then some more, with the trusty nvgs) but when I run through a warehouse with 12000 health, having just gotten coyote bpk, nvg's etc. only to be ko'd by a slap to the backpack and losing blood rapidly from a random extremity, the game showcases a major issue in a very basic area.

your assuming the zombie hit you in the backpack, how do you know he didnt hit you in the back of your head???? also it does not mater where you get injured rapid loss of blood pressure from bleeding can cause unconciousness, so if suddenly you go from 12000 blood to 10000 blood that is a big enough drop in blood pressure to cause unconciousness. so it actually does make sense that if a zombie bit you in the leg or arm and hit a major artory that you could lose conciousness due to a rapid drop in blood pressure from blood lose.

so in conclusion the game makes perfect sense the way it is.

one time i cut my tumb to the bone with a knife on accident and was bleeding very badly, when i got to the hospital and was in the waiting room at one point i passed out from the blood loss and woke up in a hospital room while they where stiching me up. and that was just my thumb. they said i lost a lot of blood which is what caused me to lose conciousness. good thing it didnt happen while i was driving there.

I guess passing out in the waiting room is a good way to get bumped to the front of the line :)

Edited August 4, 2012 by Lykaios

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

The animations are not very convincing but... zombies are not trying to punch you to death, they are clawing and biting basically. The bleeding mechanic doesn't exist in the normal game so i can reasonably say that the game is making you bleed on purpose when zombies hit you.

[vier0hr 21]

your assuming the zombie hit you in the backpack, how do you know he didnt hit you in the back of your head???? also it does not mater where you get injured rapid loss of blood pressure from bleeding can cause unconciousness, so if suddenly you go from 12000 blood to 10000 blood that is a big enough drop in blood pressure to cause unconciousness. so it actually does make sense that if a zombie bit you in the leg or arm and hit a major artory that you could lose conciousness due to a rapid drop in blood pressure from blood lose.

so in conclusion the game makes perfect sense the way it is.

one time i cut my tumb to the bone with a knife on accident and was bleeding very badly, when i got to the hospital and was in the waiting room at one point i passed out from the blood loss and woke up in a hospital room while they where stiching me up. and that was just my thumb. they said i lost a lot of blood which is what caused me to lose conciousness. good thing it didnt happen while i was driving there.

I guess passing out in the waiting room is a good way to get bumped to the front of the line :)

You sir are an idiot. (On your medical knowledge at least Xp)

The thumb(spelled right) has a major blood line in it. Hence the passing out.

I agree with the OP in a way they need to be worked on since now they can hit you from 20m away and knock you out/break you leg/make you bleed from what seems to be a quick swipe at you.The human body is very resiliant and can take a hell of a beating.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Viper0hr

[decoman 45]

I suppose it would be overly cpu intensive, but perhaps there could be some kind of heh algorithm for animating zombies in a crowd, just like in the movies, they would be slow, but would bite and maybe try to tear you apart. This way, the movement of the zombies will be slow, predictable, but potentially lethal if crowding in such a manner as to block your path out.

Maybe one could accept that a crowd of zombies spawning off just the presence of a single zombie strolling about, making a situation dangerous in a very short amount of time.

Heh I guess maybe 100 zombies ought to spawn for this idea to work out satisfactory. OR fewer given that they spawn in the narrow streets in an urban environment, making it easier to block ones path through a city.

Maybe it could work, by spawning a limited amount of zombies, but they would spawn more quickly out of nowhere close up and more importantly spawn in a line blocking an entire sector of your view, like in the street in a city. They would ofc have to move in one general direction for the group of zombies to stick together for some duration of time.

Instant spawning of zombies look fake but perhaps it can be made to work more satisfactory and without crushing all hope or irritating a player. Maybe a slowish spawn would look ok, allowing some time to run past them, but quickly enough to create a serious thread for anyone not paying attention to what is happening. This way, a player might perhaps have to gun down zombies to even break through the line and move beyond them.

How about using a players own multicore cpu to help calculate masses of slow moving zombies? Leaving movement to the player cpu, and leaving combat resolution to the server cpu? :) This would mean that player A's cpu would calculate zombie movement for player E at some entirely different part of the world map, not in relation to the gameplay of player A.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Treehugger

[Lykaios 0]

You sir are an idiot. (On your medical knowledge at least Xp)

The thumb(spelled right) has a major blood line in it. Hence the passing out.

I agree with the OP in a way they need to be worked on since now they can hit you from 20m away and knock you out/break you leg/make you bleed from what seems to be a quick swipe at you.The human body is very resiliant and can take a hell of a beating.

Fainting is a symptom of an inadequate supply of oxygen and other nutrients to the brain, usually caused by a temporary decrease in blood flow. Blood flow to the brain can decrease whenever the body cannot quickly compensate for a fall in blood pressure.

Low Volume of Blood: Fainting may occur if the blood volume is too low. An obvious cause of low blood volume is bleeding. Another cause is dehydration, which may be due to diarrhea, excessive sweating, inadequate intake of fluids, or excessive urination

source: http://www.merckmanu...e/fainting.html

The United States Navy would disagree with you on my medical knowledge.

and yes I made a typo on the word thumb if you look back in my post you would see i spelled it the right way the second time.

there are also major arteries and veins in the arms and legs like i also said in my post. the thumb was just an example because the OP stated that he does not care how much of a beating his arms or legs take, it wont cause him to go unconscious which is just not true.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Lykaios