Some guns just do too little damage!

[hulahuga 29]

I just emptied a full mp5 clip from 5 meters distance in a guy's chest (who shot me upon seeing me). He had an m1911 and killed me, whilst I just sprayed him completely to no avail. The same goes for damage against zombies with some weapons, it has just grown too nerfed right now... The MP5 is currently completely useless...

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I'm in favour of the nerfing but some weapons (like the MP5) need looking at.

P.S - You say it was to no avail, he might have died shortly after you. You will have done him some damage.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Fraggle

[Sergeant Squatt 58]

Recently they downgraded alot of weapons i believe... Like before it took 3 makrov bullets to kill a wombie.. now it takes 5

[Sergeant Squatt 58]

Yeah some guns are too powerful like the Lee Einfield but IRL it doesnt take 5 bullets to kill someone.. Maybe 2 or 3....and the MP5 is a Sub Gun that is a little to low on power too.,.. Ive used it only once but I ran thru 2 clips really fast

[TheSwede 11]

I'd have to say damage against zombies should stay about the same, since they're zombies/infected/whatever, but damage against players should stay the same, if not higher (I haven't found myself an MP5 to play with yet though, so I can't speak with experience on that, nor many other guns).

Being shot is no picnic, and considering DayZ is supposed to have that whole "realistic" thing going for it, i sure as hell wouldn't still be standing after taking two to the chest with a .45, nor 10 to 30 to the chest with a 9mm.

Maybe in the standalone when Rocket has to make a new map and/or rebuild on a new engine, he can add police stations and kevlar vests to add some more protection.

[hombrecz 832]

Well MP5 is now basically like Glock17 but with 30 bullets, faster rate of fire and crappier ironsights.

Seems that they have nerfed all 9mm weapons to do the same damage of 889 instead of old 1389.

That is why I have suggested that all 9mm weapons should go to pistol slot...who in their mind would take primary with the same damage as pistol?

Anyway I wish they would undo the nerf of pistols and maybe just leave Lee Enfield toned down, since it takes 2 shots to kill now which seems probably ok,since Lee Enfield is rifle that you will find first so often. And I know it has quite high caliber but still, its game and not 100% remake of reality.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Hombre

[ThatGuyCalledReptile 314]

Aim for the head with Mp5's they're still a one shot.

M1911's where nerfed in the latest ARMA patch. Rocket or the Dev Team will have to go in and buff the damage.

[TheSwede 11]

... but still, its game and not 100% remake of reality...

I think Rocket's intention was for it to be as close to 100% reality in regards to surviving a zombie apocalypse. He wants this game to stand out from all of the other fast-paced zombie games (L4D, Black Ops Zombies, etc) and make a (for now) unique zombie apocalypse survival experience.

[hombrecz 832]

I think Rocket's intention was for it to be as close to 100% reality in regards to surviving a zombie apocalypse. He wants this game to stand out from all of the other fast-paced zombie games (L4D, Black Ops Zombies, etc) and make a (for now) unique zombie apocalypse survival experience.

That I know but maybe we can agree on the fact, that no game can be 100% realistic, since it is a game.

Hence I am ok with Lee Enfield nerf, but pistol nerf seemed too much (again my opinion).

I think it would be best if Zeds got health buff rather then weapons getting nerf but yea, it was part of Arma 2 1.62 patch so it was not Rocket's work. On the other hand he has to do something about it I guess.

[Jeetard 9]

I just emptied a full mp5 clip from 5 meters distance in a guy's chest (who shot me upon seeing me). He had an m1911 and killed me, whilst I just sprayed him completely to no avail. The same goes for damage against zombies with some weapons, it has just grown too nerfed right now... The MP5 is currently completely useless...

stop being so dumb and at the head.... who cares if they nerfed the makarov from 3 to 5 hits... it's always been 1 hit for me...

[xximrtwoixx 104]

Agree that the guns are weak, but I don't know enough about how the engine works to calculate damage to really offer a suggestion on fixing it. I think that better hit boxes need to be implemented, ie multiplyers for damage in critical areas.

I think part of the problem comes from the fact that ARMA is set up to simulate with body armor and also to represent someone being "Out of the fight" ie injured to the point they are no longer a threat not simply dead. This means alot goes into making a system that tries to better simulate actual death, loss of blood, etc.

I think this is why certain rounds do damage the way they do, or at least thats what BI/Arma forums say, I think its kind of shocking all the nerfs were to the 1st tier type of weapons in dayz though also. I will try to expalin what I mean below.

For Example:

Slugs and pellets these are rounds that are devastating within their range to unarmored targets but if the target has body armor not so much as they are larger diamter and slower moving much like .45 acp. Slower/bigger means more knockdown but less penetration. Most handgun rounds simply do not have enough powder to generate sufficient speed to overcome their mass, thus they are ineffective against body armour. Look up the FN57 if you want to drool over something being included in the game.

.223/5.56/Stanag rounds are very effective against body armor as they are small/fast/and have a solid heavy metal core (Nato rounds). They are designed to penetrate armour and after losing much of their velocity via the armour they "tumble" and cause excesive wounds. These wounds are a plus on the battlefield as they remove multiple soldiers rather than just the one that was killed. These same characteristics make the 5.56 not so great against unarmored targets or targets at close range because the bullet is small/fast and has little to no knockdown power. Opposite this is the ak74's 5.45x39, the 5.45s standard round is a JHP (Jacketed hollow point, empty cavity inside) rather than heavy core this means it is much less effective against armour (Reason for Nerf) but is really much more effective against unarmored targets. It is known to take off whole limbs because of the massive expansion/tumble/cuts it makes.

Because Arma focuses on military play these types of considerations don't really matter all player characters wear armour, and you don't make content for crazy outliers. Also trying to simulate all of this accuratley in a system that includes armour and no armour wearing PC's sounds nightmarish to me.

I hope the DayZ dev's are up to it though, and I hope that they include different types of rounds for guns that actually work (See SD in non SD gun). It would be sweet to have JHP/FMJ/AP/SD ammo and body armour that would make this a neccessity.

All this said it should and I think does suck to get shot in game, I'm sure OP killed the other guy in his shoot out. I think thats fairly realisitic that both parties rarely make it out of a blind CQB encounter.

[hombrecz 832]

Opposite this is the ak74's 5.45x39, the 5.45s standard round is a JHP (Jacketed hollow point, empty cavity inside) rather than heavy core this means it is much less effective against armour (Reason for Nerf) but is really much more effective against unarmored targets. It is known to take off whole limbs because of the massive expansion/tumble/cuts it makes.

Thanks for your post, it had some good info.

Based on what you've written, we would need to have AK74 to be more devastating againts the Zeds then right? Since these do not wear any kind of body armor. But sadly it is the opposite. Also shotgun I believe would be devastating againts the unarmored body of our average zombie.

I've read that Arma 2 engine can set which model has body armor and which dont. I seem to recall some of the devs written that we should try shooting some civilians with .45 and then some players and see the difference.

Pitty that this did not convert to the DayZ though since both Zeds and players are much more resistant to 9mm, .45 and 5,45 as well :-(.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Hombre

[nacrom 82]

I tested this IRL and it's all accurate. I shot myself in the gut 5 times with glock while jogging and hardly felt a thing.

[:VADER: 88]

shoot them in the head, seems like all the survivors spawn with Kevlar vests ;) :P

[xximrtwoixx 104]

Watch the vid on Cnn of the cop getting shot 12 times, its on his dash cam, he was still alive just after. If he didn't feel pain or have any sense of self preservation he could have maybe kept going (like a Z).

I agree about the Z's not being models with body armor but I think this is bugged and doesn't actually work, at least some liar said that in a post. So every model is considered being armoured by the engine. I have not tested in editor though, would be interested to know results though.

[freakenstein 3]

if you have been playing alot of FPS games, you ALLWAYS aim for the head, god damn dude.

[Quaby 93]

Agree that the guns are weak, but I don't know enough about how the engine works to calculate damage to really offer a suggestion on fixing it. I think that better hit boxes need to be implemented, ie multiplyers for damage in critical areas.

I think part of the problem comes from the fact that ARMA is set up to simulate with body armor and also to represent someone being "Out of the fight" ie injured to the point they are no longer a threat not simply dead. This means alot goes into making a system that tries to better simulate actual death, loss of blood, etc.

I think this is why certain rounds do damage the way they do, or at least thats what BI/Arma forums say, I think its kind of shocking all the nerfs were to the 1st tier type of weapons in dayz though also. I will try to expalin what I mean below.

For Example:

Slugs and pellets these are rounds that are devastating within their range to unarmored targets but if the target has body armor not so much as they are larger diamter and slower moving much like .45 acp. Slower/bigger means more knockdown but less penetration. Most handgun rounds simply do not have enough powder to generate sufficient speed to overcome their mass, thus they are ineffective against body armour. Look up the FN57 if you want to drool over something being included in the game.

.223/5.56/Stanag rounds are very effective against body armor as they are small/fast/and have a solid heavy metal core (Nato rounds). They are designed to penetrate armour and after losing much of their velocity via the armour they "tumble" and cause excesive wounds. These wounds are a plus on the battlefield as they remove multiple soldiers rather than just the one that was killed. These same characteristics make the 5.56 not so great against unarmored targets or targets at close range because the bullet is small/fast and has little to no knockdown power. Opposite this is the ak74's 5.45x39, the 5.45s standard round is a JHP (Jacketed hollow point, empty cavity inside) rather than heavy core this means it is much less effective against armour (Reason for Nerf) but is really much more effective against unarmored targets. It is known to take off whole limbs because of the massive expansion/tumble/cuts it makes.

Because Arma focuses on military play these types of considerations don't really matter all player characters wear armour, and you don't make content for crazy outliers. Also trying to simulate all of this accuratley in a system that includes armour and no armour wearing PC's sounds nightmarish to me.

I hope the DayZ dev's are up to it though, and I hope that they include different types of rounds for guns that actually work (See SD in non SD gun). It would be sweet to have JHP/FMJ/AP/SD ammo and body armour that would make this a neccessity.

All this said it should and I think does suck to get shot in game, I'm sure OP killed the other guy in his shoot out. I think thats fairly realisitic that both parties rarely make it out of a blind CQB encounter.

"I would love me sum holler points to take me down sum zombies wit dat bluddy glory the way tha Lawd intended", says survivor hick. ;)