Can't you just shoot them in the head?

[Obsolescence 129]

So as everyone knows now the damage of many guns was reduced http://dayzdb.com/ne...es-in-arma2-162 - most critically the sidearms. What I don't understand is why the old community is bawing about it so pathetically. Even Rocket is apparently sympathetic to their incessent crying: http://pt.reddit.com...details/c5k7u2f

I was using a revolver before and after the patch and I dare say I like it better this way. Has the old community completely forgotten that all of your targets have heads, and in the case of zombies, they are basically just standing there asking to be headshot. Why is this a better, more brutal, more challenging anti-game if all your pistols 2-shot zombies in the chest. Now it may take 3-4 shots. Were yall not aware that zombies ordinarily require you to damage their brain to disable them? Even real humans on certain drugs can withstand multiple gunshots and keep moving. Not to mention that some of the zombies and the players apear to be wearing kevlar, if not ceramic, vests. Did I mention you can still always shoot them in the head?

I'm really shocked at how what I thought was a comunity interested in challenge and adventure wilts and cowers at the idea of having to put an extra bullet in their targets, assuming they can't manage a headshot.

Please enjoy reading this http://www.firearmst...f/fbi-hwfe.pdf research document from the FBI academy detailing exactly why I am right and you are all wrong :-P

See below for a reading guide to make it faster to understand why I'm correct.

Again, this isn't about some random number of shots and inaccurate recollections concerning highly unusual occurrences of people getting shot and going about their business. It's about different calibers/makes of pistols. .45 will incapacitate in 1 shot almost every time, and not just because I say so: http://www.firearmst...df/fbi-hwfe.pdf.

The pro-nerf argument seems to be: People need to take their time and get headshots! Baddies! This game/mod is all about realism, right? Taking the time to aim for heads while zombies are trying to eat you is very unrealistic. See the FBI doc above - read the second paragraph on page 3.

I'm giving you beans because this piece of evidence is great, but this document doesn't support your point. It actually supports my point, but it seems adorably apparent that you only read it until you reached the first reference that you felt vindicated your own preconceptions. Please see my references within the document. I've included summaries in case you are still to busy to read the document you are using as evidence.

Please read:

Pg. 3 - Third paragraph: Explains that two shots to the body is to be expected on average to incapacitate (but not kill).

Pg. 8 - First sentence: "With the exception of hits to the brain or upper spinal cord, the concept of reliable and reproducible immediate incapacitation of the human target by gunshot wound to the torso is a myth."

Pg. 8 - Second paragraph: Reviews the ways in which a target can be physiologically incapacitated (note the last sentence detailing direct heart shots).

Pg. 8 - Last paragraph: Details how psychological, emotional, and chemical factors can prevent incapacitation (including basic adrenaline).

Pg. 9 - Fourth paragraph: Explains that a bullet will not knock you down, and that this has been a known fact for "hundreds of years."

Pg. 13 - Last paragraph: Explains the phenomena of people falling down as dependant of whether they realize they've been shot (and that this phenomena is independent of caliber).

Pg. 16 - All paragraphs: This is the conclusion section (where the conclusions go). Please take a look at this section because each of the three paragraphs is laughing at you.

Thanks for the interesting document, but I think you shot yourself in the foot, so to speak.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Obsolescence

[thehumandove 344]

First, you're being a dinknose. Second, why should I have to shoot an infected human being in the head to take them down? A revolver should be able to put someone down with a shot to the chest. Also this affects pvp. Also stop being mad at people for not liking a change that Rocket seemed unaware of himself and didn't intend for.

[houcksf 13]

I don't mind the nerf too much, I just wish when they did it they also added a disconnect countermeasure so If I shoot someone and hit them they don't just leave. That's all I ask for :(

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

The problem is that most of the people that are happy about it or just not too bothered don't bother making threads about it. So all you end up hearing is the whiners which after a while starts to give you the impression that everyone is pissed off about it. I reckon most of the community are just happily getting on with killing Zeds, me included.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I don't mind the nerf too much, I just wish when they did it they also added a disconnect countermeasure so If I shoot someone and hit them they don't just leave. That's all I ask for :(

The new update has started logging peoples behaviour. Once a pattern is established they'll unleash the Ban-Hammer. Sweet.

[Dancingg 27]

I like the changes. Actually makes the zombies more of a threat which is what I was hoping might happen. I pretty much always have a 1911 on me so one shotting zeds gets sort of boring after awhile. This keeps things exciting :)

[zenatsu (DayZ) 96]

I don't know the issue...

I Shoot something in the head, it dies. I shoot everything in the head. Then I shoot it again to make sure it is dead.

I don't know the issue...

[Stubbies 67]

Hmm. Please just take your time with the tweaking of weapons... delicate balance is needed..

[Guardian angel 7]

Can't you just make your topics shorter?

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Hmm. Please just take your time with the tweaking of weapons... delicate balance is needed..

I don't think the weapons will be tweaked too much. The models have been developed with hundreds of hours of military input over the last 10 years.

[Obsolescence 129]

First, you're being a dinknose. Second, why should I have to shoot an infected human being in the head to take them down? A revolver should be able to put someone down with a shot to the chest. Also this affects pvp. Also stop being mad at people for not liking a change that Rocket seemed unaware of himself and didn't intend for.

I don't know what a dinknose is, so you may be correct. As to why you should have to shoot an infected human in the head: I was under the impression that these zombies exibited "rage" qualities (running, screetching, above average strength, and a high or infinite tolerance for pain). If they don't feel pain then you can only disable them by 1) causing them to lose enough blood so that their muscles won't function 2) disabling the brain/-stem so that signals can't be sent to the muscles 3) damaging the lungs and waiting for it to asphyxiate,

I don't mind the nerf too much, I just wish when they did it they also added a disconnect countermeasure so If I shoot someone and hit them they don't just leave. That's all I ask for :(

I do see your point there. That is a detriment to the gameplay that isn't related to challenge or difficulty.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Obsolescence

[osirish 165]

Doesn't every zombie game, book, tv show, and movie, recommend shooting them in the head?

It's common sense really. Not shooting zombies in the head just doesn't seem natural to me.

The debug monitor does seem to record Zombies killed, and Zombie headshots ..... so what's the problem?

I like the nerf. Zombies are dangerous again.

[SystemiK 366]

Have I overestimated the DayZ community's commitment to a challenging DayZ experience? Or do I fail to understand the difficulties you have with shooting things in the head?

There was certainly a time when the DayZ community as a whole seemed to want a very challenging experience, however this current community has been greatly watered down by players who seem to want something else entirely.

[houcksf 13]

The new update has started logging peoples behaviour. Once a pattern is established they'll unleash the Ban-Hammer. Sweet.

Sorry to go alittle off-topic, but the thing is they shouldn't have to ban these players. They should be adding systems in places so if you force your client closed or even just pull the network cable then if your shot/fracture whatever combat related then your body stays there for a good minute or so.

[Obsolescence 129]

There was certainly a time when the DayZ community as a whole seemed to want a very challenging experience, however this current community has been greatly watered down by players who seem to want something else entirely.

I didn't find it disturbing at first, and gleefully clicked on the link to Rocket's reply to this change - happy and content to read his response playfully mocking the whiners for not being able to deal with it. I only became horrified once I realized that he seemed to be sympathetic to their belief that the 1911 and other guns be able to put down absolutely everything in 1-2 hits on the body.

[Uncle Gapey 16]

1 or 2 shots of .45 is plenty enough to kill/incapacitate any human body, whether it be zombified or not. That is why this shit should be undone. Big bullets, small magazine, extra recoil - there are downsides.

[bw.shuggoth@gmail.com 15]

I like the changes. Actually makes the zombies more of a threat which is what I was hoping might happen. I pretty much always have a 1911 on me so one shotting zeds gets sort of boring after awhile. This keeps things exciting :)

ORly !!!! and once you aggroed 5 zombies at same time what you do ? head shot them one by one ? 2 mistakes allowed with m1911 , 5 headshot + 2mistakes.

perfect with revolver ?

using the makaroni 5bullet per torso ?

how many magasines you got ? do you really play the same game i play..

ok ok we have unlimited ammo , but packs act weird now , i get monster aggros like 5 to 6 zeds . what can i do with a m1911 ... nothing ... makaroni : nothing kill 2 , revolver kill 3

using main weapon and aggro even more zombies ?

what you say is nonsense .i hope you get that in the face and die leg broke out of morphin arround NW airfield so you know how it feels with the new guns even when you a good player...

i think you killed zeds for 5 minutes with it without playing the survival aspect.

Tell me how im suppose to down 5 zeds , if i do 3 mistakes and got only 1 round. i will die in the building or get my leg broke....and you will too. stop giving stupid feedback to rocket and licking his ass.

even good player wont suvive this very long

i bet you are one of those electro pvp newb that dosent care dying and just shoot Zeds like a fps....

this will happen to you i can't wait .

TO be honest even with lot of rounds 7 , not bad aiming at headshots (25headshot over 30killed)

you wont survive any aggro inside a building if more than 2 zed comes. you will maybe once , but not twice... and trust me that happened to me 4 or 5 times since new arma patch and im considering pausing the game waiting for rocket to fix it. is pointless to play actually if your goal is to survive in north of lands like a boss.

i used to have solutions to this scenario before but since the weapons hiting lower. zeds actings weird like crazy aggro for no reason 100Meters+ x5 zeds

tell me what the fuck i am suppose to do ?

4th or 5th time i die with NO options available fully loaded with main + secondary weapon (not even out of ammo) , shit tons of bandaids. painkillers and all. i love hardcore games , but to be honest i dont like to die when options are limited like this. ESPECIALLY when the features are not intended by the mod developper...

i find the game actually totally sucks . found it awesome a week ago. now its just crap !

Edited July 28, 2012 by bwarky

[Obsolescence 129]

1 or 2 shots of .45 is plenty enough to kill/incapacitate any human body, whether it be zombified or not. That is why this shit should be undone. Big bullets, small magazine, extra recoil - there are downsides.

The players appear to be wearing bullet proof vests, and even if they weren't go look up some news stories about the police shooting people. It can often take more than 2 rounds to kill someone (I think the officer put 4+ in the guy in Florida who was eating people's faces). There is a video on youtube where an officer puts 2 rounds in a giant man and he still chases the cop down and beats on him. Sure, 2 rounds may knock someone unconcious and leave them bleeding out, but unless you hit a vital organ with one of those two shots you are probably going to need a third if you want to make them dead right then.

i get monster aggros like 5 to 6 zeds . what can i do with a m1911 ... nothing ... makaroni : nothing kill 2 , revolver kill 3

what you say is nonsense .i hope you get that in the face and die leg broke out of morphin arround NW airfield so you know how it feels with the new guns even when you a good player...

i think you killed zeds for 5 minutes with it without playing the survival aspect.

even good player wont suvive this very long

i bet you are one of those electro pvp newb that dosent care dying and just shoot Zeds like a fps....

this will happen to you i can't wait .

The problems you described have no relevance to me because:

1) I don't make your initial mistake of aggroing everything in sight (5 zombies)

2) If I do aggro 5 zombies, I run away and try to scrape them off on obstacles - as anyone would in real life.

3) I am not incapable of shooting things in the head, when I choose to shoot.

4) I don't forget to take morphine when I go to the NW Airfield

I salivate at the idea of having my leg broken at the NW Airfield and being forced to choose between suicide and crawling for hours or begging someone for help, but it probably won't ever happen to me, because I don't show up unprepared, aggro everything in sight, foolishly decide to shoot instead of run, and then cry that my game hasn't been properly watered down for my delicate taste.

Welcome to DayZ.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Obsolescence

[bw.shuggoth@gmail.com 15]

1) I don't make your initial mistake of aggroing everything in sight (5 zombies)

i don't its just zeds view sight that is clearly totally bugged actually . im crawling like 24/7.... , playing infiltration style and still got those heavy bad pack aggro from 100m

i played for 2 weeks without dying and now i just die in loops ? just explain to me...

im crawling like before and im not playing a dumbstyle aggro gameplay. i am playing like splinter cell and it used to work.

now i get crazy aggros for no reasons , even on rooftops crawling (not shots)

2) If I do aggro 5 zombies, I run away and try to scrape them off on obstacles - as anyone would in real life.

This is exactly what i do and you will notice that now if you run into a building to make them go slower then quickly run to another building you wont loose aggro like before.

same for many obstacles , the only one that actually worked for me today was the marinas. near water. (theres none north)

so i see no other options than shooting ,or maybe should i run endlessly like benny hill ? are you serious?

Have you tried to hit and run now ?

3) I am not incapable of shooting things in the head, when I choose to shoot.

i think 25 headshot over 30zeds killed show i have no aiming troubles.( even if the sample to low compared to my last life)

4) I don't forget to take morphine when I go to the NW Airfield

I don't i always take 3 to 4 when i travel up north but since that new arma patch and new release i get my leg broke in seconds because of zeds 4 to 5+ aggro that i can't even run aways or hit and run like i used to. (or avoid crawling) :/

5x aggro turn into 10x aggro and finishes in epic fail with no hit and run possible. 4 times leg broke . 4morphin gone ,

are we playing the same game ?

i know all those tricks , they just don't work anymore for me ...since arma patch +1.7.4 one time i would say ok bad luck , but after 5 tries , is no bad luck or bad play : the game is broke.

i appreciate your advices but this is exactly the gameplay i used to have and its not working anymore for me.

not 100% gun faults , i would say more crazy nonsense aggros + lower guns + obstacles working less with hit and run = epic fail.

Zeds now aggro from very far when i crawl and i still don't get it.

Edited July 28, 2012 by bwarky

[Vipala 32]

Lets be honest the zombies animations are extermely clunky and they warp like fuck. Doing headshots in the open when they are chasing you isnt exactly viable.. indoors or on stairs yes.

[bw.shuggoth@gmail.com 15]

Lets be honest the zombies animations are extermely clunky and they warp like fuck. Doing headshots in the open when they are chasing you isnt exactly viable.. indoors or on stairs yes.

and this is why i actually dies a lot and loose all my morphins , i take them in building , headshot them all

scenario 1 i get more aggros

scenario 2 i die while trying to escape in the building since they hit thru walls or pop on my like a ghost. , just can't loose aggro even playing with buldings , landscape and so on.

scenario 3 ran out of ammo , have to reload , loose to much blood or get broken legs. run out of morphins

all scenario = death

before arma patch + new release i always survived. i still aim the same something change or maybe im perma drunk. Would you care to enlighten me?

my gameplay is superstealthy crawling , avoiding shots at all costs usually. now i feel like im shootin shootin shootin and i just hate it.

this is what i meant by game broke , i now shoot like a moron while i used to play stealthy and i have no other option WTF...

running dosent work .

crawling doesent work

headshotting works but i have to reload at some point.

zombie spawning changed (they are now most of the time in building entry wich screws most of inflitration methods or give crazy aggro thru walls even out of sight)

do you guys play on rookie server with armors ? please be honest because im trying to understand what changed and its "not" only firepower.

I LOVE being out of my comfort zone, and i have no worries with perma death since my favorite game ever was a sandbox like dayz ,i only played that game since 1998. i am not a carebear , i dont play world of warcraft. i love to die. i used to freaking love ultima online in it's first years.

im not crying because weps got nerfed , im crying because a skilled gameplay based on infiltration is now totaly useless and is now only about shootin shootin and shootin.

i thought rocket would love to give us options , what option i have if i can't loose aggro , if i can't avoid breaking legs , or if i can't avoid a 5+ aggro?

well i have to shoot , then ... run

death is not an option , its a fatality.

oh i see , i have the option "wait and see"

from my experience in pvp + sandboxes i can tell the game is taking wrong way like i seen 10years ago on a game like this. they screwed it all and its now dead . im affraid with changes like this ,dayz could become like ultima online , a game where balance was not a priority , but in the end , the game mechanics has to have balance or it ends in chaos or result in hardcore players leaving the game because it became "too hardcore" or "different feeling" after sucky updates(wich really make me think again about what rocket said with emotions, ultima online is the only game that had the same fear level of loosing your gear , getting pked , it's the ancestor of dayz and is a very good exemple of what to do and what not to do if you wanna ruin a game)

acutally i feel different emotions , less strong , and less stress because i know that i have 70% chance of aggroing what ever i do. so if you know it gonna happen the fear is not here anymore , the game become fukin predictable and i hate that. i dont have less emotions because im used to the game , i get less emotions because of the new dynamic that is shitty and predictable.

i hope rocket will read my rage because its different from others.

IT not weapon firepower problem , it has to do with metagame, emotions and predictable actions because of new spawning mechanics/ aggro tweaked and the situation where you get stuck now with a 5 to 10 aggro only with your gun not to aggro more zombs (main weapon is not a solution anymore)

wtf should i pop my AKM and burst like a moron to aggro 15More ? is this the way the game wants me to play know if i can't stealth like a boss?

this guy plays really bad and does not headshots but this is what happens to me playing splinter cell style with no mistakes it now end up all the time like this and im not using rifles , only gun.

infinite aggro , no exit. and if theres an exit they wont leave me , or they will aggro more.

how can a gamestyle that was play with no mistake now end up all the time like this freaking newb video ? just explain to me.

im not like this guy and i will never do those mistakes , i just have no other choices , i never used alt-f4 and that a good think they going to monitor is because when desision making is limited like that people will ALT f-4 , its not cowardry , is just logical sense.

What can i do ? nothing ? no option ? alt f4. so rocket if you read me , if you want to have less alt-f4'ers , just tweak the game in a way that give us though desisions but that gives us options , i admit death is a fatality and sometimes its normal that we doesent have choice , the game would be flawless without this , but i think it clrearly badly balanced and it become even more crazier with low firepower weps.

how can a gameplay with no mistake allways ends up like mistakes like this video ?

if i was newb like this guy i would agree but its not the case , the aggro is not my fault , its bugged , then it goes creshendo

i would love to STILL have the choice between a survival fps and a shoot em up ....

just feel is like now bursting in loops...

ps : i know what descision making is , and honestly this kind of stuff makes people use alt f4.

because there was no mistake , i avoid danger but it end in aggro that never end. shooting like a moron. + i have no other desision making because i know this will always end up the same way.

i can't be the only one who notice that new behavior in the game and im really surprised no one noticed that.

@op do you play with suppresors ?

Edited July 28, 2012 by bwarky

[Balllzack 0]

Lets be honest the zombies animations are extermely clunky and they warp like fuck. Doing headshots in the open when they are chasing you isnt exactly viable.. indoors or on stairs yes.

i never engage any zombie out in the feild thats just asking to die. as long as you are runing they can't catch you.

hell ive had 10+ agroed from bolta to chenro once, ran to the market then poped them off

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Sorry to go alittle off-topic, but the thing is they shouldn't have to ban these players. They should be adding systems in places so if you force your client closed or even just pull the network cable then if your shot/fracture whatever combat related then your body stays there for a good minute or so.

Yup, it's off topic and been discussed at length. It will be dealt with . Patience Grasshopper.

[Nekosan 20]

There was certainly a time when the DayZ community as a whole seemed to want a very challenging experience, however this current community has been greatly watered down by players who seem to want something else entirely.

It's not the "old" community that's the problem, early in development the zombies were actually a challenge and you had to work together.

The problem I see with the rebalancing of the weapons is that it went a little too far with the pistols, having to shoot a zombie 3times in the body with a .45 to kill it is a little excessive considering the small amount of ammo you can carry, headshots aren't always viable and you can't always just run into a building. Consider the impact of this when zombies can run inside buildings(which we've been told is coming)...

I think the majority of players still want a challenging experience, unfortunately that isn't what we have at the moment... what we have is zombies that are stupidly easy to aggro or lose and an entire range of pistols which are more worthless against a Z than just walking away. It's not hard having to shoot a Z 6 times with a glock... just annoying.

I wonder how many people would be supporting this if they werent running around with a revolver/1911 with infinite ammo?

Edited July 28, 2012 by Nekosan

[bezki 31]

aim to the fucking HEAD. how it should be. dont say its impossible in the open. run backwards, stop shortly till they are near and stop to slap you. 3steps back: POP.

crybabies.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Bezki