You, you and you. You are all part of the problem.

[cybercam 0]

I'm not upset nor am I whining... I just don't play... no problem. I'm content in just watching how the gameplay turns out and what ends up happening when the game finally becomes full release.

I'm just hoping that when it's all said and done, the devs or someone else decides to create a "lite" version that allows for private servers (I remember reading that the devs might consider doing that). As I have a ton of bandwidth and a high-end server that I can play along with my friends, the way we want to play.

[HardTarget 27]

TJ |RUS|' pid='50916' dateline='1337724539']

We have too much gear to risk losing anything' date=' and honestly I don't care about your experience.

[/quote']

Actually, this is the one thing I'm going to put out, I hate to have to put someone in the sights of this, you just happened to be it TJ, so don't feel I'm belittling you, as your way of operating in the game, while some may not agree with it, IS a way to play the game, so it's your choice to do so. I just want to demonstrate something I feel about this line of thinking, feel free to agree/disagree.

What is your "too much gear to risk losing" at? When Gun A, B, and C all pretty much assure your demise if you're hit twice (or once in the head, for ANY weapon), the matter comes down to weapon preference. Do you all have NVG's you'd rather not lose? I'm quite curious, at what level is it "too much" to risk your gear? Just today, just a few hours ago I ran up from the shorelines of Kamenka to reach my buddies at the NWAF. I now currently have, at the end of the few hours of holding/looting the place, an M16A4 ACOG, GPS, every tool spare matches and toolbox, a good amount of ammo, food and water, and a Coyote Backpack.

It took me, what, three hours of my time to gather this up, in a group of 3 odd people? Those 3 people also equipped with nice gear, spare one member who got shot by someone who had rushed up with a Winchester and had found a M16A2? The other living member has an M24, ammo, most tools, Coyote and etc. Why is that gear so endearing to you, that you would simply cast away the time someone else has took, just because you happened to see them first?

I don't know how you group travels, I don't claim to know anything about the number of items, gear, or heck even vehicles if you have any. But if you're jumping into Electro/Cherno, then whatever, I feel those are designated "Shoot first" zones as it is. If you're going through the countryside in the safe though, I wonder why you have to fire first. Most people I've met outside the shore tend to be smart enough players where they haven't gone off and murdered everyone on sight, and those who are psychopaths don't go up because the amount of people to find isn't as great as simply sitting in Cherno atop a vantage point and playing "Point and Click adventure".

Where is the line? What becomes too endearing and draws you into the game that you must shoot first to keep some virtual item? After as many people have said, this is a game. Is it that you mearly don't care for what others have done for whatever items they possess that draws you to just fire so you haven't wasted any time (Although entertainment itself is time wasted, an amusing thought no)? Where is the line, when do you draw it?

To me, the experience is survival, not "Item Get!" adventure. I go up because I personally prefer the M16A4 ACOG, the optical gunsight is amazing, and it's a damn fine weapon imo. It's the main reason I head back up, and ammo for it is so damn easy to find throughout any airfield I'm not worried about running out (And if I find an operable M1911 with enough ammo, I like it too, the age-old design is a favorite of mine).

Aside that, I could stay on the coast or in the woodlands and keep trying to survive, it's what I do, it's what makes the game for me. To sit in the shadows as needed, set up camps where I want, overwatch areas on a mountainside and see how things are going. It's an adventure of how long I can survive, me and my M16A4, in an apocalyptic world where zombies, people, and the enviroment strive to maul me to death. I find people, I examine how they act, and decide if they're people I may group up with, or avoid at all costs. I enter smaller towns because I know for a FACT people are swarming (still) Cherno and Electro, and Zelenogorsk is one of my favorite spots due to having a pub while being so accessible from the coast.

Maybe that's not how you play, I understand. Maybe the adventure for you is to build, to establish a presence, or to just gain every "best" item in the game for whatever purpose. I'm curious what you see this game as, and what makes your opinion that everyone else is expendable because it took you such-and-such amount of time to gather such-and-such item(s).

Hope you can tell me, I'm genuinely intrigued.

TL: DR - In short, how do you see the game, that the time you took to get the items is greater than the time taken by other players for theirs, that you would shoot them down on sight? I want to know your way of thinking, and to learn from it, rather than dismiss it.

[Malek (DayZ) 1]

I don't mind the change, i just wish rocket waited till the direct chat system worked more efficiently before changing the bandit skin.

At least in the pervious version, you could get a ROUGH idea of whether a person was friendly or not based purely on visuals, now you have to communicate, trying to use a broken communication system.

In the new version, the only way to have an idea if someone is friendly or to say that you Re friendly is to communicate, but the communication system we have is very difficult to use effectively.

[R Lee 0]

Another DayZ evangelist. Dude go outside and get some sun, you take this shit too personal and way to serious.

[Doxshund (DayZ) 3]

I got a bandit skin last night off of one kill.

So now I am stuck being a bandit, I have to kill others before they kill me.

[HardTarget 27]

@ Malek, That's true, we really, desperately need VoIP in a 100% working state. Although I tend to get it to work, I know it's right now giving certain people hell. Hopefully Bohemia can manage to squeeze out a final patch that will fix it.

@R Lee, I assume your post was directed at mine, so I'll answer as such. I'm in the sun, all the damn day, working on a Shade Tobacco Farm in literal Courage the Cowardly Dog nowhere's-ville. I am sick of the sun, I just enjoy playing a game that has survivalistic aspects. If that makes me "take it too seriously", then fine, but that's like saying "Stop getting so scared in a horror game you idiot!". DayZ is a survivalist game after all, and so I try to enjoy it in a survivalist manner. Hope that's understandable.

@Doxshund, Bandit skins will be removed on Thursday, although just try to avoid the "Bandit Hunters" without having to go nuts on other players.

[sunnz 24]

This may sound odd but ive had much more team moments/grouping with people with bandit skins than normal survivors.

Many get it from self defence, its how i got it.

[DaPessimist 1]

So what you're saying is unless you have RL friends or guildies playing with you, that you forever have to play the game solo. Sounds great for hardcore gamers, not so great for everyone else.

[Time Glitch 453]

I agree completely. Trust is fragile enough as it is, but people giving up entirely and deciding to always shoot on sight are just the biggest of quitters and whiners.

At the very least, just TRY to avoid other people if you have no trust at all. Don't just start unloading on them.

Personally, I'm not giving up on cooperation. I won't openly invite it, but if I run across another player or two I might try to open a dialog.

[ouberlord 4]

So what you're saying is unless you have RL friends or guildies playing with you' date=' that you forever have to play the game solo. Sounds great for hardcore gamers, not so great for everyone else.

[/quote']

Hardly. I've grouped with a player who didn't even speak English, so we had a language barrier on top of the trust issue. It worked out fine, and we parted ways an hour later with no problem.

It's an apocalypse mod where human nature is laid bare, and the anonymity of the internet makes people just as vicious and self-serving as world without laws and recourse would. You don't have to group up with people, and like any other choice in the game choosing to group up (or even make your presence known) has its pros and cons.

Also, HardTarget, I can't +Rep you enough. I've had many of the same experiences, and I've avoided or peacefully contacted and skirted more players than I've killed (bandit or no). Not everyone in the game is a merciless killer, but you can assume they are without also needing to blast everyone. Hell, I've stalked quite a few people to see where they are going and what they are up to for the express purpose of *avoiding* them rather than kill them. I could have killed them easily, but why should I?

[proxzor 3]

To simply put it, everyone is unique.

[HardTarget 27]

@Time Glitch, A respectable way to word it. Hopefully that can be something that people will consider at least. If a single post I make can convince a single person to be a little more weary to try interaction in this game, it was worth it to take the time to post. It's a community driven game after all.

@OUberLord, glad we can agree, although what you mentioned with viciousness and self-serving due to anonymity is true. As they say "Give a man a mask, and he will tell you the truth". We all aim to work to our own ideals, but the benefits of working together are often subtle and missed. I could scower the NWAF alone, or with someone watching my back. It's just figuring out who ingame isn't a jerk that I can do that with which took time.

@Rko, Undoubtedly.

[-Sin- 5]

After reading the points you've made through out the thread HardTarget. I have to admit I agree with them for the most part. Especially your taking the [PATY] example into the line of sight for your point. While I do feel bandits are a problem the ones out to kill for sport. The problem I'm starting to see emerge more so, are these 'guilds' or 'groups' that are acquiring this stuff only to SoS anyone else that comes in their line of view. They know damn well they have how many other people most likely on that server. And how much more gear waiting back there for them.

The reason I don't feel that his point is valid as I believe it's Nya' or so that I've noticed in their signature denotes a [PATY] tag. If I am wrong simply disregard this as an error. However they made a point as to how their group was CONSTANTLY bringing in supplies to keep all the members stocked and refreshed that it was no problem to get more stuff. In reference to an earlier point you made as to the fact that in 3 hours you've made back gear that some of these people are so eager to protect. I personally am attached to my gear , yes. HOWEVER. I have not shot a person who had first done something wrong. I've only shot TWO. In all my time playing. TWO. People. The first charged my friends and gunned them down with a Winny, only to have me have to put him down. And the other purposely drug zombies into us as bait for them. Because after they had aggro'd to us he left. Only to show up on the roof we were on, and at that point our friend had died from zombies. At that point he had in my opinion murdered my friend, with his bullshit. So he was put down HARD. Outside of that, I've actually taken to the game with something I haven't heard but. I'm trying to see how high I can get my Morality. As I want to see what faces that little mask makes in the corner. I ENJOY being a friendly. To help.

I do not SoS. I do not judge Bandits as I understand self defense was netting people Bandit skins. A few cases if I may as I feel this is a point needed to be made.

Outside of the power plant, the one just outside of Electro, I had taken up a spot I often hold. Of course I withhold that information as I do like having my secrets and the ability to be hidden. But I was watching from far enough away that they wouldn't have seen me without knowing I was there. I was watching the both of them, and for a bit of fun and a smile. I used Side Chat and I asked them by name so they knew I saw them. What gear they found. It took them a bit as I watched them prone trying to identify me. When they couldn't they told me nothing really good. I knew it was a lie but they didn't want a bullet in their head for stuff. I just sat watching a smile on my face, and I told them. You should try going prone through so and so. Or using this wall as cover. Generally giving them tips. I didn't open up fire which I could have and done them both in as they were very obvious. But instead had some fun with them and gave advice. This is case one.

My friend had died so me and my other friend. (I'll refer to the one with me as A and the one we were going to pick up as B for easier understanding. ) 'A' was meeting up with me and we were heading out east to the eastern side of the coast to pick up 'B'. And along the way we were making stops in Cherno and Electro as we were going to restock and reoutfit. Now this entire time we were moving through both cities very well. And making fairly good time as we left Electro when we came up on this wall. And I saw movement and got down. I got out my M4A1, my friend spaced out from me and I got up against the wall. When the guy came around the corner he had a Bandit skin. And from how he was moving and looking at me he was scared shit-less. He was looking down the barrel of an M4A1 and he knew he couldn't take it. So I quickly over Direct Chat asked him. "Friendly?" And as he was twitching managed to type out Friendly and goes and drops all his ammo and runs off. While it was pretty funny to see him scared so shit-less. I told him don't worry, I am friendly and I'm not out to fuck up people's shit unless they fuck up mine. And he headed on. He was on a run to bring a friend blood bags. Had I gunned him down on the spot for who he was. His friend would probably have went without the blood he needed.

This is Case 2.

The last case which is something my friends didn't like and almost got us killed. But we were at the Power Plant outside of Electro once again. After scoping it out we found it to be clear, and I had taken up spot on top of the white tower and the other two were on the building across from me. We were sitting for some time just chilling you know kind of getting our shit organized and ready to move out. When we started seeing activity towards Electro, so we held down for a moment as we knew those in there were friendly from Side chat as they were teaming up with people. But we weren't too trusting of them. Don't we see this guy come running out of Electro he had been all by himself and he has a pack on him. I quickly make the decision. I tell them both to get up out of prone we're saving this guy. I told them drop them. So they asked if i meant the guy, which was easier. And I told them no. The zombies. So they opened up as I did with my trusty M4A1 and the guy got away. We asked if he needed medical aid and he climbed the building I was on. He didn't know I was there and I could have done him in but we didn't. We saved his life. Choosing him over letting the zombies have him. Though he did have a CZ... so when he attacked a zombie he got us in thick stew. But we got out of it all and we left him to be. He lasted another good 1 and a half before we saw the So and So died thing. But none the less we had given him his chance.

This is case 3.

I want to be friendly. I do. I want to be able to walk up to a group and know it's not SoS, or be shot on sight. But so far my encounters have NOT been good. And as such I slowly get more weary. But earlier today in the forums I was told I was a problem because I go from server to server trying to find one at night that is set during a day part of time. Which leads me to believe this community has its priorities all messed up, that I could be the problem for DC'ing and such when there are people who do it just to find new fresh servers to kill, and those who exploit loot, and generally are douchebags with it. So losing the bandit skins won't change that and really people will still be who they are in the end. I believe what needs to be done is while not completely taking the skin system out. I do believe it should be towards the top of what Rocket should work on.

(( For those of you who say that having such a system is hand holding. It's not. A working system would actually help give SOME direction of what the player has been doing. NOTE:: I say a WORKING system. Not the system as it was.

But a working system would help let you get that on the fly judge of a person to see if you should be weary and avoid, or see if they are looking for something. ))

Now it has been just me and my two friends playing and we always play together. However I just find that either the people we run into are too edgy and will shoot. Or are too elitist and such to allow us to tag along for a bit maybe get a set of NVG or some backpacks as they make rounds. Which is how I feel the mod should be going. It should be easy for a person of friendly intent to be able to identify who shares that, and who is honestly just out for a Death match scenario.

TL:DR (( In short. Need a working system. Examples of there being good. And that generally Hard Target has good points read his posts. ))

[hishnik 23]

The P6 concept is a good idea and all' date=' but it's still a 50% chance that another player could spot you before you spot them, which 95% of the time you will be killed like I have.

[/quote']

I hope you dont take offense to this when i say it, but if you think P6 concept works 50% of the time - you have failed at the concept.

If the other player spotted you - you have failed to be careful in moving up, and/or having a good vantage point.

HardTarget, i hear you man, however, not everyone has the patience to be careful/cautious.

Gearwise, i too had my share of having, and not having the gear. As you mentioned, the guns really dont matter, it's few shot kill on most of them. Hell, CZ that is widely available in starting zones is super easy to use, and has plenty of ammo, and both Lee and Winchester are just as good for both zombies and humans. All i'm saying, is that 'GEAR' that everyone is hunting down, is really overrated. I've held down NWA/Sobor with my friends, on variety of servers for about 4-5 days... I did not even SEE a single set of NVG. The best item we have is rangefinder. We actually did end up killing one person, who we believed was trying to set a trap, later, oddly enough, he joined our group and is now a solid addition to it. So if i get killed - yes, i will be bummed out about not having my loudass m14 and noiseless m9sd.. Yes it'll be akward at first not to have the navigational tools like gps/map/compass, but i'll go town to town, until i find it.

Yes, it is at times frustrating to find that you've been circling the same village for last 20 minutes at night during rain, because you dont have a map or compass. Meanwhile your friends wait for you 5 clicks out, and get impatient.. But it's part of the game, dont get frustrated, embrace it - learn from it.

The part that gets me is that there are players i personally know, who have been 'alive' for more than just few days (one example in particular is alive for 6-7 days) and because of that, now it's a personal achievement for them, and you bet your rear - he will do anything to continue having that timer go. He has sacrificed a guy who was running with him, just to continue staying alive... That is part of human psychology - get used to it

All the 'players who ruin the game', that most people are talking about, dont have that patience either... Actually, i'll go step further, if you've played Arma in past, you probably have more patience then they do, so if a player like that takes you out - your bad, as you didnt take enough precautions to be safe. Most mainstream FPS are all about 'run-n-gun', Arma is more about 'tactical movement'.

If someone who is going from sprint to prone and shoots you, while you're moving up slow - you screwed up, and exposed yourself to him.

If you got taken out by a sniper - your bad, should have checked all most likely nests, and vantage points BEFORE moving in.

Last four days of my in-game life, i have not died, and of the last 3 after i picked up m14, yesterday was the first time i shot it... I shot it at zombies, because i wanted to see what it was all about... That's how often i shoot at anyone. I believe if you can avoid confrontation - you should.

Most of the folks bitching here... I really wish you would have been there in the very begining of Ultima Online in '96-'97... When it was PVP servers only... Talk about trust issues...

Seriously though, if you dont feel comfortable - dont do it. No one is forcing you to engage with others, we humans (for most part) tend to enjoy the company of others (not even always humans), and need socializing, that's the reason we tend to group up. But you can just fine survive alone.

[Macenzie 79]

I'm going to shoot you in the face anyway

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

Yeah I don't like the skin system either.

I killed 2 guys in self defense before the latest patch and got my bandit skin.

Now I'm a bandit forever.

Admittedly though, I also PK other players when I need food and I can't find any around.

I'm not sure what we can really do about it though. You can't control how people play really. It would take all the fun out of the game.

[worbat 13]

[Macenzie 79]

Manners are not at the forefront of my mind when someone stumbles across me looting the NW barrack buildings.

No one goes to the NW air base to make friends, it's either him or me.

[worbat 13]

That's true, it's still rude though!

Which is why you go to stary to make friends.

[el mariachi 10]

90% when I've killed someone because there isn't much else to do in the game.

The other 5% was when I was actually worried about being killed, and the last 5% was the moments in time I felt like I needed to protect the equipment I had on me.

Some people are going to be gung-ho about the 'survival' aspect in this game, and act like that kid in kindergarten who would get mad at you if you just asked him what his mom made him for lunch.

Some people think cooperating to achieve a goal is pretty cool and enjoyable.

The state of the game as it is panders more to the crazy survivalist at this point of time. Not because that's how it should be (and that's up for debate), but the fact is that there aren't a lot of in-game tools or options to facilitate or 'reward' grouping together.

[vivalarazala 1]

Ok' date=' I'm going to say it. IT IS YOUR FAULT.

What am I reading here? I have read [i']countless posts in a number of threads with players complaining that the arbitrarily assigned Bandit Skins are going away, and that this reduces their trust in their fellow players.

Given. That is the case. They are going away. Trust may be diminished. If that is your hangup, I am here to let you know that it is your hangup and not necessarily anyone else's.

But, here is what I have a problem with. The almost inevitable follow-up comment to, "I'm going to have trouble trusting other people..." seems to be, "SO, I'M JUST GOING TO START SHOOTING THEM IN THE FACE."

Well! Ain't that a big fucking kick in the ass? You, you and you. You're being all high and mighty, saying that because you don't know if the person you're looking at isn't going to shoot you first, that you're going to shoot them, first!

If you have posted this, or thought this, then I put it to you that YOU, YOURSELF, ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM that you are complaining about.

Things have not changed. The person holding the gun trained on you is the exact same as the person you looked at yesterday. He may shoot you, he may not. You may shoot him, you may not. Every situation you are in will give you the exact same question of "do I shoot this person or not?" The only difference is, now you do not know anything of this person's past experiences.

So, if you choose to shoot first, the blood is on you. If you're crying about this becoming a "deathmatch, that just happens to contain zombies" in one breath, and then saying, "so I'll just shoot everybody first", then you are proving your own point.

Your game will become a deathmatch. You'll be able to come onto the forums and post, "I told you so", and you will be responsible.

Congratulations.

I, for one, won't be choosing to play that way. I will choose to stand above that thinking, and work around those players who want to devolve, only to serve their own, sad little egos and to tell everybody else how 'right' they were.

I know there are other players out there who share my way of thinking, and who try and play their game to a higher level. The ArmA 2 engine, and the DayZ Alpha mod affords everyone so much more by way of gameplay, and I will not be one who chooses to marginalize it.

Take a harsh look at yourself, and your actions. We all wear the same skin, and all have to make the same tough choices. What makes you any better than him?

Govern yourself accordingly.

Ahhh i Agree!!!

[Khaan 2]

I Shoot anyone who runs in my direction... they cant have my beans!..

[The Killing Joke 43]

Everybody loves a tangent. My original post was meant to be a call out against those who, in one breath say, "the game will become a deathmatch" and in the next say, "I may as well shoot everybody on sight!"

It wasn't meant to be yet another PvP vs. PvE conversation. It also wasn't meant to be some highbrow, elitist rant saying, "everybody DO AS I SAY". I don't care how you play, personally. But don't expect to be able to say "I told you so" if you're the reason why it is so.

Everybody has options. There are certainly smarter people than me in this very thread, posting what they are.

[fosty99 160]

tl;dr version?

[The Killing Joke 43]

tl;dr version?

TL;DR: People are quoted as saying, "removing the morality system is going to turn everything into a deathmatch, and that's bad", and immediately following it up with, "so because I can't magically see if a person is trustworthy, I will instead SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE, first."

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.