DayZ as it is, The Player Meta, Pros and Cons.. Next Step?

[PingtothePong 0]

Hey Everyone, I'm Ping and I'm the new guy at the forums. After playing DayZ extensively, I have found myself surrounded by the great atmosphere that the devs created, and I collaborated with some friends and came up with ideas for several improvements. These ideas and suggestions are justified by opinion and ovservation only and I don't mind if you guys shoot them down (if you find them absolutely dumb) as long as you state your stance. None of these suggestions are created out of personal bias or frustration with the game, as I enjoy the challenges that the current game provides.

The Format will go like this...

The Current Situation

The Idea

What I speculate would happen

Lets start with the more abstract and then to the more physical/content based areas of the game...

Beginning with the more abstract elements of the game..

Alright, so what does it mean to play DayZ? The current meta of the game is find supplies, find guns and ammo, kill players. Now before you insta-ban me for complaining about bandits (which I am not, and I completely understand that they are an essential part of the game), the problem is not the existence of bandits, but the motives of bandits. Is this the game is meant to be played? is a question I would like to direct at the devs. I do not believe that this impacts the game in how it gets worse or better, but I am simply curious as to if this was meant to be. This does indeed allow for a never ending challenge of pvp, which currently suits the game quite well.

--> Alright so what does this mean? The challenge of the game is to aqquire the nessesities to survive. After a few days of playing the game, this becomes quite familiar to the player and can be easily accomplished. Because there are far less challenges, we as players in an open world game purposefully seek new challenges, which directs are attention at killing other players. This is a very interesting mechanic, and does not promote the game for better or worse, but it does somewhat flatten the "optimal" way of playing the game. It brings up the idea of "theres nothing else to do, i've got an m4, 5 mags, I'm going to kill some other players". In other words, the problem is that we players are kind of pushed to become bandits, which limits the meaning of an open world game.

--> So whats the solution? Well, because the mechanics of survival are pretty easy to satisfy once a player gets geared, the best way to tackle this problem is to add more challenging content without prohibiting new players from progressing. A way I came up with to tackle this problem is to make zombie spawns more common/ more challenging as the player progresses inland. Currently this is not the case as zombies only spawn in towns/villages and the most dangerous areas in the game are the costal cities (Elektro, etc). With this solution, there won't be a large need to stress the devs with giving the game a ton of new content while still delivering the challenge to players. I'm sure that there are other suggestions that can answer this as well.

The survival mechanic is a very interesting one, not only because it is an essential element to realism, but because it is one of the most prominent challenges in the early stages of the game. Currently, food and water help force players to decide between weapons, medical supplies and food. This is a great mechanic as it forces to player to make crucial descisions. There is very little to nitpick about but there is one small mechanic that could be added to contribute to the realism and blood mechanic of the game.

--> I'm sure this has been suggested before and I understand the reasons for the disapproval but I think it will dynamically change the game in its realism aspect. Currently food and water are primarily used to satisfy the survival mechanic, and often times to heal the player. It would be more realistically sensible for there to be a bloodregen/min mechanic based on the percentage of thirst/hunger.

--> What would this do for the game? Well the current meta of the game demands that the player carries a decent amount of meat around just to outheal some of the zombie hits or the occasional bandit encounter. This takes away from the realism as people obviously don't eat to instantly regain their blood. But this also labels food in the matter that it is only seen as a way to replenish blood in the late game. Having a blood/second mechanic based on the % of thirst/hunger would make the player behave much more cautiously and also take away from the feeling that a player recieves when they say "dang, I need to search for food because I'm at 10k blood".

That being said, the medical supplies mechanic of the game is very well refined as it is. This is little to criticize about it but heres a small suggestion.

--> There is very little to criticize except for the fact that, hey its medical supplies! Instead of having food insta-replenish blood, how about a medical item instead? This could be a syringe (although I'm not sure everyone has that great of an imagination, but since we already have morphine insta healing broken bones..). Blood bags are a great mechanic in which they are one of the few elements of the game that actually promote team work. However, giving a player a quick method to regain some blood would be a necessary component to the game because it offers the player a way to quickly regain from a zombie encounter or player encounter and allow the player to continue, traveling, scavenging.. etc instead of confining the player to hide out in the woods until his health replenishes.

--> All in all, this would add greatly to the realism of the game and would impact the game positively in that a player will seek out hospitals/medical centers more often instead of just "picking up a few bandaids and a syringe of morphine". Balancing the importance of food/medical supplies/weapons is one of the most important aspects of this game.

One last issue is concerning the importance of "Industrial" type buildings and the items they spawn. As it is right now, they are by far the least sought out of the 4 types of items spawns because of their repetitious and fruitless yield. Sure, barbed fencing is important, and sure the hatchet is very important, but other than the occasional tool, the items that spawn in industrial buildings are hardly worth their keep. Fireaxe's are good, but only once. Tires and repair supplies are useful only on certain occasion, which is fine, but limits their desireability. People avoid industrial centers right now simply because there is little we want from them.

--> Alright, how do we tackle this? Well theres the simple and easy solution, which is simply to make a larger variety of items spawn in them. Factories often have guns located somewhere for security, I'm sure. Theres probably some first aid to be found as well. This is a totally satisfactory solution (as long as the drop rates are low, to even the desireability out with the other forms of item spawns). The other solution would take more work, but would probably be more satisfying. That is to add additional tools and supplies to the game. Something more engineering-ish such as being able to improve guns by adding silencers and other assesories. Sounds difficult? There are already varients of guns (such as the Ak-Kobra) and we can take advantage of this mechanic by simply making a "upgrade" to a previous guns with new tools so that when a player "upgrades" their gun, it simply changes into a different form of the same base gun (such as the Ak into an Ak-Kobra when upgraded with a sight). Another cool (but completely tertiary) suggestion would be to make stationary crafting stations or the sort (such as a crafting table). This would be interesting as it would make industrial places more desireable in that it would be a good idea to take shelter there which gives industrial buildings an entirely new role in the current meta.

--> Alright, out of these, which ones seem the most feesible? Well they all have their pros and cons and since this might involve a bit more coding, I would leave this up to them to decide. So what would this do to the current meta? It would shift the concentration of players in the city. Its a city, so players should find it desireable there. But players are currently concentrated in the residential/market areas of the city because they have little interest in the industrial warehouses. With these changes, this would encourage players to spread out in the city, instead of having gangfights outside the church in Elektro.

Lastly theres the obvious stuff that is already being progressed in.. such as bug fixes, performance..etc. Thanks to the Devs for all their hard work in this! I am determined to give the dev team my complete support. Lets make this mod better than future clones of this game! (ahem)

This is all I got. Feel free to fire all the "these ideas suck" or "thats not feesible" at me. I'd like to hear what the Devs and the Players think about these ideas.

[Sentaru 1]

1) Oh.. there have been many threads about how to fix the random killings of players the occours without no real reason other than something like boredom. In my mind the only way to decrease , I 100% sure that it will impossible to stop the random killings for good, the amount of random killings is to make it waaay more benificial to team up with people rather than shooting them in the face. I won't be going into any idea how to decrease the random killings.

2) Blood regain over time, yes i totaly agree that, that should be added to the game

3) The ''syringe'' idea i can't really follow. What would be in the syringe? I don't know of any drug that would make you regain blood fast (If that was not how the ''syringe'' idea was suposed to be understood then please explain it to me :) ) Now what i could see being added to the game, that could help you get through low blood situations, is something like Adrenalin. Adrenalin would remove the effects of being on a low level of blood gives you, for a short amount of time that is.

4) Ofc it would be nice to be able to gain the ability to upgrade your weapons from the industiral areas so i do not oppose the idea of haveing the crafting table for example. But, as I understand it, the industiral places are ment to be for people who wish to get barbed wire, or parts for other means of transport. So in my mind the industiral areas does what they are ment to do. So in my mind the industiral areas does not NEED the improvement but that does not mean that we should not improve them to higher levels anyway.

[PingtothePong 0]

Thanks for the reply,

The killings should not stop, for that is an essential part of the game. The reason for killing (the particular one discussed) should be, not because that it upsets players, but because we're kind of forced to as the 'go-to endgame mechanic'

yeah the syringe idea is quite vague. I just thought it would be reasonable to add some sort of health regen as a form of medical supply as it would make sense. Someone that someone can use other than a blood bag.

the industrial area i feel is far too unimportant and unattractive relative to the other item locations. Vehicles are quite rare and so the importance for repair items is limited, and barbed wire is limited by component. The industrial areas just feel unattractive and I just find myself avoiding them completely.

Edited July 22, 2012 by PingtothePong

[Venzire 76]

1) Oh.. there have been many threads about how to fix the random killings of players the occours without no real reason other than something like boredom. In my mind the only way to decrease , I 100% sure that it will impossible to stop the random killings for good, the amount of random killings is to make it waaay more benificial to team up with people rather than shooting them in the face. I won't be going into any idea how to decrease the random killings.

2) Blood regain over time, yes i totaly agree that, that should be added to the game

3) The ''syringe'' idea i can't really follow. What would be in the syringe? I don't know of any drug that would make you regain blood fast (If that was not how the ''syringe'' idea was suposed to be understood then please explain it to me :) ) Now what i could see being added to the game, that could help you get through low blood situations, is something like Adrenalin. Adrenalin would remove the effects of being on a low level of blood gives you, for a short amount of time that is.

4) Ofc it would be nice to be able to gain the ability to upgrade your weapons from the industiral areas so i do not oppose the idea of haveing the crafting table for example. But, as I understand it, the industiral places are ment to be for people who wish to get barbed wire, or parts for other means of transport. So in my mind the industiral areas does what they are ment to do. So in my mind the industiral areas does not NEED the improvement but that does not mean that we should not improve them to higher levels anyway.

Syringe for blood transfusions, you must use it for a successful blood transfusion or risk your blood bag spilling everywhere and attracting nearby zombies to your location. And also bloodying up your player a bit.

Syringe must be found at a hospital and are a semi-rare spawn, they are put into the tool menu not as an inventory item that'd cause some problems but also add to that you must risk one or two spots to give transfusions and the syringe enables you to give self-transfusions. Possibly when you spawn you get given a blood type and there's random blood type spawn blood bags that you must use instead of just BLOOD BAGS you must use your blood type or risk getting sick and weird ass infections that effects vision and movement and causes loss of conciousness and even death.

To extend upon the syringes they could be used on your self but takes longer than another player to give you a transfusion or not even use it on your self.

(I may extend upon the post and correct mistakes.)(Probably won't)

Lootable attachments is a plan for a standalone game and finding them in military areas and needing a toolbox would be great also a constructable crafting table that you need and to make that you must use scrap metal and tank traps. Maybe refine weapons to prevent jamming if that is added and improve accuracy. E.g. AS50 reaches 1600 metres maybe you can extend the zero of the scope via a new scope and refining it? Pretty rough ideas but you guys can extend upon them.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Venzire

[PingtothePong 0]

One thing I kept in mind when I made these suggestions was the feesibility for the Devs to put these ideas into action. This kind of restricts our imagination because they have to work with the Arma 2 engine and mod out everything. I have no idea what or where the limit for our creativity is, but I'm hoping that its high.

You guys are giving off some great ideas. I just hope that its actually possible for the Devs to put this kind of stuff into play.

[Sentaru 1]

Thanks for the reply,

The killings should not stop, for that is an essential part of the game. The reason for killing (the particular one discussed) should be, not because that it upsets players, but because we're kind of forced to as the 'go-to endgame mechanic'

I never ment it to be that killings should be removed no no. Well i kinda disagree with the statement about being forced to do killings at ''end game'' because of the game mechanics. It is up to the player to choose if they want to go the, for example, bandit way or not. I have heard of people useing their helicopter to pick up people that was in need of transpotation from a dangerous situation, I have heard about people starting a tradeing post, people that would run around helping others in the role of a medic/doctor. Stating mercernary camps (yeah i know this also requres killings sometimes) and so on and so on. Many just feel themselfs forced to do killings at endgame and i can see why.. it is rarely that others will just say thank you and then walk away after you helped them.. it is too common that people just shoot you and take the car you just used to safe their life.. BUT! therefore it is not the game mechanics that forces you, it is the people that play the game and that is also why it is so insanely hard to change that.

Syringe for blood transfusions, you must use it for a successful blood transfusion or risk your blood bag spilling everywhere and attracting nearby zombies to your location. And also bloodying up your player a bit.

Syringe must be found at a hospital and are a semi-rare spawn, they are put into the tool menu not as an inventory item that'd cause some problems but also add to that you must risk one or two spots to give transfusions and the syringe enables you to give self-transfusions. Possibly when you spawn you get given a blood type and there's random blood type spawn blood bags that you must use instead of just BLOOD BAGS you must use your blood type or risk getting sick and weird ass infections that effects vision and movement and causes loss of conciousness and even death.

To extend upon the syringes they could be used on your self but takes longer than another player to give you a transfusion or not even use it on your self.

(I may extend upon the post and correct mistakes.)(Probably won't)

Lootable attachments is a plan for a standalone game and finding them in military areas and needing a toolbox would be great also a constructable crafting table that you need and to make that you must use scrap metal and tank traps. Maybe refine weapons to prevent jamming if that is added and improve accuracy. E.g. AS50 reaches 1600 metres maybe you can extend the zero of the scope via a new scope and refining it? Pretty rough ideas but you guys can extend upon them.

the idea pingtothepong mentioned first was to have something else than bloodbags, which your idea requries to work, but I see your idea and i like that one should be able to find something semi rare the ables one to give blood transfusions to oneself