A problem if Alt+F4 is fixed?

[osirish 165]

Please excuse the wall of text.

We all know how frustrating Alt+F4 is. We only have to look around the forums to see how it is a hot topic in almost every area.

Only yesterday, I was wandering through the woods on a regular scouting mission and was near one of my tents that I no longer needed. It had some mid-tier weapons and supplies and as I'm rarely in this area any more, I don't use it. I made my way down to the coast and spotted an unarmed survivor making his way from the coast up to treeline. I stood up in an open area and saluted. My intention was to lead him to the tent and give it to him for his own regular use. He spotted me and immediately Alt+F4'd. Your loss buddy.

That Alt+F4 is a problem is not in debate. Cheaters seem to be the other hot topic at the moment. It has become rife. I'm not going to give them the honor of calling them hackers, they aren't, they are cheaters. Every day, more and more cheat reports are being generated. More and more cheats are being discovered, and more and more admins are coming under pressure from both the cheaters and their regular player base to do something about it.

I know it is an Alpha. I know there are bugs, some gamebreaking. I knew that cheaters would be a problem, especially as the mod became more popular. (over 700,000 unique players now! woot!)

I was thinking about how many times I've Alt+F4'd in the game since it started. At the beginning, I died, .... a lot, until I discovered that Alt+F4 despawned Zeds. I died less. Then I discovered how not to agro and pretty much stopped ALT+F4ing altogether.

I discovered other players. Some good, some not so good. I haven't killed another player in a month. I don't go out of my way to find pvp. I have access to sniper rifles (all of them!) but have never used them. I carry an assault rifle. I have taken shots at players who were stealing from me, wounded a few, and have been in a few firefights where I had no choice or have felt threatened. I've wounded many. I've been prone for countless hours when I have spotted a movement, or waiting for another player to make a wrong move, but usually, in the end, they have ALT+F4'd.

I've died to cheaters a few times. (Certainly less than I've died to bugs.) But more and more servers are being hit and crippled by them. I sense the frustration of the admins on the server I play on, where they are following the guidelines to the letter. They haven't banned a single player yet, even when we know they are cheating or have been killed by their godmode, teleporting, esp, vehicle spawning, downloaded skills. They can only ban due to racism or malicious comments. As only direct chat is enabled on veteran servers, even these powers are pretty useless.

There are good admins and there are bad admins, and thankfully, it is not my responsibility to resolve these issues. Only a couple of days ago, every one of our stashes and every one of our vehicles was raided, stolen, or destroyed, by a two man team in less than 2 hours. One of them was killed and the other Alt+F4'd during one of the raids, and yet they were both raiding another camp in another part of the map within minutes.Detective work showed they have prior bans from other games in their history, but they weren't banned from DayZ. An admin was in-game at the time, but his hands were tied and he couldn't do anything. The only saving grace with these two, is that they didn't nuke the server, or attempt to use their powers for killing other players.

TL:DR

The last time I ALT+F4'd was when a cheater was on the server killing people. If Alt+F4 is "fixed" and can prevent fast logouts with no consequences, as much as I hate saying it, no legitimate player is safe.

It will lead to more and more griefing by cheaters, and more and more discontent amongst every one else. Either admin powers need to be expanded, or whatever Alt+F4 solution is being developed needs to take into account that there is a growing reason why players need a way to fast exit a game.

Edited July 20, 2012 by osirish

[Dokrane 42]

To fix one bug is to highlight others.

It'll get fixed eventually.

[Zeromentor 169]

Yeah, the whole ALT+F4 thing is going nuts. The amount of people doing it to save their character, even fresh spawns, is crazy. But the hackers aren't more of a problem than they normally are on most computer games. There will always be hackers, and even if you get the best defense the only ones you can stop are the script kiddies that buy their hacks from the pros.

Good Hackers aren't stopped. Give them a system, and they'll find a backdoor. That's a promise. It might take time, but nothing is hack proof as software is designed to SERVE humans, and hackers are humans. Even protection and security systems are designed to serve people, and so they are prone to being hacked.

But yeah, it sucks. I can't wait for them to punish ALT+F4 with whatever system they come up with. Insta-killing ALT-F4ers, delayed timers, spawning people in with zombies on them just for them to disconnect and log in to find more zombies, loads of things they can do. I can't wait.

Too bad the Arma2 engine doesn't support log-out timers.

[adamtheheretic 106]

Because the game uses a HIVE server to allow the persistent server experience, they have a lot of data. They can detect those that log out constantly, even those that shoot/have had shots fired near them and log out. They'll probably implement a system so that if you log in and out consistently maybe choosing different servers, they'll ban you or kill your player... something a long those lines. And also if you leave when in the vicinity of players or zombies, or if you or players near you have fired, ban or kill. So I think the limitations of ARMA are becoming an advantage by punishing those ALT + F4-er's harshly.

[BunnyHillPro 111]

TL:DR please? :( If I wasnt so tired I would read the whole thing, but a short and simplified version maybe? Thank you

[ColdCamV 20]

To fix one bug is to highlight others.

It'll get fixed eventually.

This.

I agree that admins should have the power, if there is a cheater/hacker who gets onto the server and the admin knows their cheating and can prove it to be able to at the very least kick the guys from the server and or ban them while putting a note about it in the cheater section of the forums.

That being said you cant have one without the other..if they put in some form of alt+F4 delayer or blocker or something you're gonna have the forums filled with people coming out the woodwork complaining about how they got cheated and died while trying to log out or their game crashed and died because their character remained in the game..which then leads to complaints and rage about how the "games broken" and "dayZ ruined" and "no one should play because its unfair"

Its a double edged sword and it will probably be awhile before anything about the alt+F4'ers is actually done which is a painful truth we just have to deal with, until then your choices simply come down to try your hardest to avoid PvP or if you know you cant, then make sure your shots are straight and true and if they alt+f4 hopefully you blew their leg out and left them bleeding.

[Zeromentor 169]

TL:DR please? :( If I wasnt so tired I would read the whole thing, but a short and simplified version maybe? Thank you

OP hates Combat Loggers and Hackers.

[osirish 165]

TL:DR please? :( If I wasnt so tired I would read the whole thing, but a short and simplified version maybe? Thank you

Last couple of sentence were TLDR .... forgot to add it. soz.

[DayZPvP.com 143]

Everyone hates Combat Loggers and Hackers.

Fixed

[Dokrane 42]

TL:DR please? :( If I wasnt so tired I would read the whole thing, but a short and simplified version maybe? Thank you

OP hates Combat Loggers and Hackers.

Wants Alt+F4 fixed, but understands additional problems with hackers that may result in a straight up "no alt+f4 anymore".

[vekien 84]

I dont get why people alt-f4 when ESC>Abort does same and is faster lol, but this will get patched anyway, as said in interviews its just about the best way to implement the solution.

[deathTouch (DayZ) 17]

Get a better control of hackers before tackling Alt+F4ing.

Being deprived of loot is annoying, but losing days or weeks worth of loot because you cant log out when someone TPs to your face and is invincible, or is dropping bombs all over the city you are in, is ten times worse.

[noobfun 87]

The last time I ALT+F4'd was when a cheater was on the server killing people. If Alt+F4 is "fixed" and can prevent fast logouts with no consequences, as much as I hate saying it, no legitimate player is safe.

yes i can see why the alt+f4 was needed rather then just logging out normally -_-

was on a 2 person server last night heard an almighty bang, it wasnt a rifle and im way way up north on the coast, press p, only other player is called 'mishacks' -_-

get a message in vehicle channel

"hey what ya doin?" 0_o

"running around huntign camps, and wondering what that huge bang was, know anything about it?" - me

"maybe" - him

"later dude" - me ..logs off not zomg panic must alt+f4!!!!! just the usual log off change server and resume my running around in the woods for another 4 hours

last time i alt+f4'ed ... never

times ive been killed in firefights- lots

times ive been killed by hackers - several

there is NEVER a reason to alt+f4 over normal logging, and as you say he was killing people not just nuking the server at once so the 5 second delay to log out(if/when added) probably wouldnt have made any change anyway

Edited July 20, 2012 by stuffnthings

[Vendayn 7]

I think it would be solved if it was one character per account on a server of persons choosing. Like a MMO is, which is sort of what DayZ is like. If not for Arma 2, maybe the standalone version.

Think about it.

One char per server...

no server hopping

people are probably more likely to be nice, since they are "stuck" on that server. Why would someone want to be known as a hacker as a douchebag, if they have to live on that server. Some will, but it should help

No going to a low pop/private/empty server, get a bunch of items and...well...I guess this goes back to server hopping. While it would still be a problem for low pop servers, it wouldn't effect other servers and if its empty, the guy is by himself anyway

Edited July 20, 2012 by Vendayn

[Ankhenaten 111]

Well what about you log off character dies. In real life you would need to find a safe place to sleep. The ridiculously short thirst and hunger timers would need some adaption though. A sleep mode. Would make the game really unique then. Yes people would comb the woods for sleepers, so they would in real life maybe.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[entelin 13]

But the hackers aren't more of a problem than they normally are on most computer games.

Your joking right? Arma has been hacker heaven since OFP, its just that it didn't matter much since almost nobody played any of them online, and if they did it was on private servers among community members. Hell, in Arma1 there were people going from server to server spawning tactical nukes on top of cities, destroying *everything*. Still today hackers have the ability to do almost anything they want.

Most games have only a limited number of possible hacks, most of which are patched out quickly after discovery. Not so with Arma, they have never had to focus on security until now. I hope they fix it in Arma2, but my gut tells me not to hope for much until Arma3.

[sixbarns 217]

Alt-f4 breaks the game as much as script kiddies.

You can use it for "good" all you want but it's still abuse of the game mechanics. Besides, wtf is wrong with you guys if you can't lose zombies?