Question to players complaining about getting killed

[McKh 2]

I expected a game that would be part PvE and part PvP. I expected zombies to be extremely threatening and places like the big three cities as well as military sites to be so dangerous, from the zombies AND other groups of players, that you would be completely suicidal to go in alone, essentially forcing you to cooperate to experience these areas.

This would add an element – which you see and hear about all the time Youtube videos and reviews – where you interact with random other players, but are never sure if they are going to backstab you at the worst time, whether it be for food, medical supplies, top end gear, or just because they’re psychopaths. That would add group PvP with random players. That would add some dude you’ve been working with for an hour caping you in the knees as you run from a train of zombies. Dynamics like that. Loads of tension. A different experience than CoD or other shooters.

Outside of these areas – 80% of the game map – I envisioned lone wolves, random bandits, and the occasional small groups, etc. frequenting mid-size and small towns, smaller military sites, and so forth, willing to kill you for a can of Pepsi. A no man’s land.

I love PvP – alone or solo - but I expected more from this game than CoD with zombies, and videos/reviews totally portray that game as that.

Here instead is what I get: I spawn, or respawn till I am near a big town. Then I sprint through the town, with a huge train of zombies behind me, which are apparently forget how to run when they enter a building. I leave them behind and loot my basic kit without firing a shot and get out of town. Unless I see another player, who I shoot, no questions asked, cause chances are they will do the same to me. Then one of two things happen:

1: I gear up, solo, and play the game like CoD with zombies, but a 30mn-2 hour set up period and a huge map and beans.

Or:

2: I play the survival game, which with the right tools to cook your own food and a water bottle, never require me to realistically get near another player. Eventually I get bored of this and move to 1, die, and repeat.

This game is cool and perma-death is an awesome aspect, it adds so much drama, but the videos and reviews led me to believe this game would be more than that.

Also – because sprinting through a building or up a hill is so much more efficient that stealth, that segment of the game is really marginalized, which is lame.

Sure I can group, meta game through a clan, but that again doesn't have that excitment from interacting with people who may kill me at any time, my clanmates wont backstab me or leave me in the dust if means their survival.

Sorry for how long that was – hope it helps people understand. I don’t think it makes me, or a lot of other players, carebears for expecting this. And again, this is what the media portrays this game is, which currently it isn’t. Kudos to Rocket for an awesome mod so far, though.

[o_grande_rafael 24]

So my question is: why did you buy Arma 2? Why did you play DayZ in the first place? How did you find out about the game, what motivated you to buy Arma and dl the mod, and what did you think it was about before buying it?

Did you know it was full-pvp and that you could get shot at any time by anyone and lose everything? Was it clear enough on the websites where you looked for information about the game?

I think it's interesting to see how the information is freely available everywhere, on the forums, youtube, tons of website, and yet some players didn't know what they were going to experience in-game.

A friend, whom i knew from Battleground Europe, told me it was a good game and he missed our fellowship and that we could accomplish many things playing toghether. Then i bought Arma just to play DayZ cooperative with him and perhaps with others.

when i first came there were the bandit-survivor skin difference, and was not like this. i met with people many times and shared stuff and helped others to get rid of their own zombies... It was more realistic. in a zombie appocalipse you dont shoot people. you shoot zombies.

my char has 30+ days alive, 1400+ zeds, 0 murders. had 1 motorcylce, 1 quad, 1 bicicle (all lost in server restarts). Right now we are in the process of fixing a Lada Laika. on the times of helicopters, my friend once found one working (probly from cheaters) and rescued me from a broken leg and 0 morphine. that was epic. i felt like in some vietnam jungle with that noisy angel coming to save me.

That is DayZ for me.

[fuckthisgame 0]

I bought ARMA because I have bought every ARMA since the day OFP came out. I just found out about this game from a clan mate while playing world of tanks. I figured, I like zombies and the survival RP sounds fun. Well it isn't fun. Spending hours crawling around just to get shot in the face any time you get near a town that has the things you need isn't fun. You know what's fun? Killing everything that moves like in world of tanks. This game was ruined for me within hours of playing it. If I continue to play it I have joined the ranks of kos. What a wretched community this is.

[Mi'BalzEzHari 1]

PVP will always have its complaints. Unfortunetly we will never rid the game of an annoying 10 yr old killing everyone they see.

[kander 80]

One of the requirements for the game is "balls", dont think a lot of people fulfil this.

See, this.. this is the problem. You really think you need balls to play a computer game? There's no bravery involved. Half the crazy shoot-on-sight PKers running around would shit themselves and revert to a foetal state before even starting to engage with a real-life equivalent of this game. What you need balls for is to curb the sadistic killer instinct in all of us and only start killing when it counts. Going out on a limb and starting a meaningful social interaction? That's bravery.

[Fishmitts 65]

I thought DayZ would offer me something different than other FPS "with zombies inside": a survival experience where the stake is to struggle against the elements and, possibly, other players in the search for resources. A game where managing inventory and planning routes would be more important than shooting skills. A game where players would trade water against medikit, or ammunition against a map. I thought firearms would be used wisely: when the situation is desperate indeed and that firepower is the last option to save my life for the next day.

Unfortunately, as it is now, too many players take DayZ as another FPS. They don't care about your equipment, they don't care if you are a friend or not, they just shoot, for fun.

What you are describing is utopian. There will never be a sandybox game like that as long as there are other players involved. Ever. But there are some solutions that can be adressed to make the game a little less frustrating for you people.

Weapons. There too easy to find, and theres too many of them. Personally, I would make ammo extreamly scarce to the point that you would think long and hard about fireing your wep... Then again, if we didnt have firearms we would just gather up, grab an axe or a crowbar and go to town. The word "noob" would be replaced with the word "seal", and we'd gleefully club the living shit out of em.

Duping. I know its a glitch and will be fixed but right now its rampant. No one cares about losing their stuff because after their killed they just go back to their tent and gear up. No big deal. While we dont condone that kind of behavior in our clan, I cant babbysit everyone. And Ive heard rumors that some clans promote it.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Fishmitts

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Without the threat of death, survival is not an accomplishment.

When the threat of death comes from a scripted AI, people feel comfortable. It's within their realm of experience for the genre of games that normally house zombies - survival horror, action adventure, cooperative FPS, etc. Scripted AI, even the most sophisticated, can be easily studied and overcome in no time - especially by teams. You take the experience of Left 4 Dead. It's quite challenging at first, but once you get the pattern down and learn the zombie types, you drink a few beers with friends and walk through the game unscathed. High-fives all around at the end and then it's on to the next game. Challenge overcome.

When the threat of death instead comes from unscripted human intelligence - suddenly it can't be so easily predicted and overcome. You don't know when and where the threat will emerge and you have no idea what actions any given player will take in response to yours. Combat is dynamic, outcomes uncertain, and even the most skilled and veteran players are at the mercy of happenstance. You cannot "beat" the human enemy the way you can a scripted enemy. And, this, frankly makes people uncomfortable.

rocket realized this before DayZ was even a twinkle in our eye. He recognized that the zombie genre, thus far, has been all about line-up-and-shoot. From Resident Evil to Left 4 Dead to Dead Island to Dead Rising to Killing Floor to CoD: Zombies it's the same formula. Zombies are dumb but there's lots of them so bang-bang motherfuckers!

Well, okay, that's fun - but it's been done. A lot. DayZ is something new. It has broken convention in so many ways, and that has people riled up in a lot of different ways. I think DayZ will thrive precisely because rocket is sticking to his guns and not bowing to calls to return DayZ to the status quo and bring it back in line with all of your expectations for a game that's exclusively focused on zombie survival. The human element is so critical - including the worst of the worst and the best of the best - to the experience that any shift away from it is in my opinion a misstep.

Zombies are a thematic backdrop against which you are meant to involve yourself in a story with and about other players.

It is very clear that this is working. Every day on these forums, reddit and Youtube new videos pop up of interesting experiences involving random strangers in the game. And why are these experiences worthy of reddit posts or forum posts or Youtube videos? Because they are special. Because they don't happen all the time. Because they arise from a pile of steaming shit, piss and blood and stand in contrast. If every random encounter in the game resulted in a salute-and-loot then it would cease to be special. Making friends in the game feels amazing and emotionally touching right now precisely because it is not the normal outcome you expect. If 9 times in 10 you avoid someone or get shot at, then that 10th time when you do make a friend you're going to remember it for a long time to come. "I met a guy and we worked together" is pretty goddamn boring if that happens 30 times a day. But, if it happens once a week? Once a month? Now that's something to write home about.

Anyway, long story short - relax and enjoy the ride guys.

Edited July 19, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[mdevch 12]

hehe, yeah..

most of them think maybe it's an adventure game ;) lool.

no, it's a realistic shooter with rpg elements and zombies in it. the only difference is, that you start with no gear and has to equip yourself, build teams and own together.

ask yourself, why would you go into a town, without expecting a fight?

this is the same thing like, why would you play cod and run for the flag to capture it..

at the beginning i died regulary too, after knowing the map better, lootspots and hotspots for snipers, i gear up pretty fast.

10minutes and you're equiped again with a rifle.

today i started at night without gear.. found a hatched, chased some dude with a flashlight, while he wasn't watching, i took him down with the hatchet..

now i have a m4 cco, nice pack, nice equips..

[DoshDosh 62]

In the game's current build the best way to survive is stay isolated once you have basic survival gear/weapons, be aware of your surroundings so that you can avoid ambushes + get the jump on other players, and then shoot anyone you see on sight (in that order, in my opinion). I agree that right now it's a little too easy to "deathmatch" it out, but I feel that PVP isn't strictly necessary to survive unless you're frequently visiting high-traffic areas.

That being said, I'd completely support a system that switches it up a little to lighten the "always deathmatch" mindset, but I can see how it might not be a priority now.

[s.taylor.75@gmail.com 23]

One of the requirements for the game is "balls", dont think a lot of people fulfil this.

As for the "newbie", it is very easy to throw a gun in ur backpack then sneakily pull it out when no one is looking and shoot, especially a rifle.

+1. What a person is holding in their hands has nothing to do with whether I kill them or not.

[bezki 31]

let the bandit skin return for those player who kill another player who has no weapons/melee at all. lock up the griefers. its just stupid. otherwise i have no problem at all.

never been sniped but who snipes randomly over hundreds of meters to survive? my brother had killed once a guy on the top of the zub castel , over 800 meter away(he was just looking around with his binocs. i screamed at hi you are such an asshole. same happend to him later. i think he will never do it again.

everyone who killed me looted me and earned it with their playstyle.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Bezki

[tanker 2]

One of the requirements for the game is "balls", dont think a lot of people fulfil this.

As for the "newbie", it is very easy to throw a gun in ur backpack then sneakily pull it out when no one is looking and shoot, especially a rifle.

Oh wow real e-peen display here. What a man.

[vekien 84]

See, this.. this is the problem. You really think you need balls to play a computer game? There's no bravery involved. Half the crazy shoot-on-sight PKers running around would shit themselves and revert to a foetal state before even starting to engage with a real-life equivalent of this game. What you need balls for is to curb the sadistic killer instinct in all of us and only start killing when it counts. Going out on a limb and starting a meaningful social interaction? That's bravery.

Oh wow real e-peen display here. What a man.

hahah, surprised you guys took me seriously, lighten up a little it was a joke, because its on the front page... and people complain like crying little girls, who dont have balls... ya noe, ruined now i had to explain it ... :)

[malzie 2]

To be honest, there are times where I KoS because it has happened to me so many times that I am just frustrated and do not want to take the chance. How many times have I died nearly immediately after finding something cool in game? Literally my life span is less than 10 minutes after finding one of the rarer items in the game. "Oh you found a DMR? BLAM its mine now... see you in Cherno while I am there sniping noobs with the gun I just looted off of you." It gets frustrating, and some times it just feels good to take it out on the first survivor you come across.

As was stated earlier in the thread, now that it is 100x better to sprint through a town quick loot buildings and get out of town, rather than sneak your way in... it is pointless to do anything else besides kill other people. It is more fun to kill people because now it isn't worth trying to sneak past zombies. Even if you slow belly crawl through a town... you're still going to aggro a zombie from 100m away and still going to have a horde come after you. So why bother go into a town when you can let a noob do it and then loot what you need of his body? Simple fact is, it is more of a challenge to loot pain killers and bandages off of freshly spawned players than it is to go into a town. Now that it is impossible to be stealthy, one has to find new ways of using stealth to his advantage. Find the sniper before he kills you. :)

[MikeTupper 68]

I don't like the shoot first ask questions later attitude, so instead of complaining I did something about it. Now i'm a vigilante that kills snipers. Hehehe

[WraithTR1 0]

I bought Arma II to play DayZ, and had heard about it from multiple sources, unfortunately all rather dated. My understanding of it was that it was a zombie survival game with the elements of human interactions both good and bad, and that if you died then you would lose everything. I really thought the threat of zombies was going to be greater and the only way to survive was working together with other survivors and the random psychopathic murderer an exception rather then the norm. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. I've been fortunate so far and have not had any truly bad experiences with the other players I ran into, but I can definitely see why people get frustrated with the cold blooded murders that most seem to experiencing. Honestly I probably wouldn't have gotten Arma II and DayZ if it'd been more clear that it was more focused on PvP death match then actually surviving a zombie apocalypse. There's a lot of information out there about the game that while maybe once was true no longer seems to apply giving people the wrong idea about the game.

[DoshDosh 62]

I bought Arma II to play DayZ, and had heard about it from multiple sources, unfortunately all rather dated. My understanding of it was that it was a zombie survival game with the elements of human interactions both good and bad, and that if you died then you would lose everything. I really thought the threat of zombies was going to be greater and the only way to survive was working together with other survivors and the random psychopathic murderer an exception rather then the norm. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. I've been fortunate so far and have not had any truly bad experiences with the other players I ran into, but I can definitely see why people get frustrated with the cold blooded murders that most seem to experiencing. Honestly I probably wouldn't have gotten Arma II and DayZ if it'd been more clear that it was more focused on PvP death match then actually surviving a zombie apocalypse. There's a lot of information out there about the game that while maybe once was true no longer seems to apply giving people the wrong idea about the game.

Fortunately since the game is still in Alpha, there's a lot of space for change and improvement; Rocket mentioned that he thought experimenting was important and that the game itself wouldn't evolve if nothing new was ever implemented, so I'm guessing that we can see anything from minor to completely drastic changes between now and the release.

[Robolord 11]

A 225 km2 open world post-soviet state and one of the areas hit by a new and presently unknown infection which has wiped out most of the world's population. You are one of the few who have survived and now you must search this new wasteland in order to fight for your life against what is left of the indigenous population, now infected with the disease.

Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

Cause of this here ^

People expect a survival game, not a giant PVP match. How can you possibly say that its normal for people to expect a PVP when its supposed to be a survival game? No one knows its full pvp when they start playing, Since its being advertised as a survival game. You're just making no sence.

[elliotle 6]

I think it mirrors how things would be if it was real. Ok there probably wouldn't be people sitting on hills sniping people just for lulz, but I think there would be a complete break down in trust to the point were people would start shooting the hell out of each other in a lawless kill or be killed world.

Today, my first day in the game. I came a cross a player body in an abandoned industrial block. Heard the flies, saw the blood dripping down so went to investigate. Looted the guy and took his gun, rifle and everything else that was useful. Then from nowhere a guy comes up the stairs he see's me, he's armed and I smoke him in panic. I had no idea if he was going to shoot me, but the fact I didn't wait to find out meant I got to survive another day. Well another few minutes because I was snipped at the very same spot. I gather that because there was another player dead there, someone is sniping that spot. If he's doing it then going in for the loot, Fair dos.

Absolutely not. Killing people is horrible (I know). There is no disaster that has caused an entire population to slaughter eachother on sight. This argument is stale and false.

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

Hi

As you all know there are a lot of threads from players who complain about PvP: "it's unfair to get killed when you just started, it's unfair to get killed for no reason, people shot first and ask question later, the shot-on-sight mentality is ruining the game" etc. etc. etc.

So my question is: why did you buy Arma 2? Why did you play DayZ in the first place? How did you find out about the game, what motivated you to buy Arma and dl the mod, and what did you think it was about before buying it?

Did you know it was full-pvp and that you could get shot at any time by anyone and lose everything? Was it clear enough on the websites where you looked for information about the game?

I think it's interesting to see how the information is freely available everywhere, on the forums, youtube, tons of website, and yet some players didn't know what they were going to experience in-game.

By your tone i bet you're one of the people who make the others complain.

You are allowed to kill people, although it doesn't mean you have to start killing EVERYONE, even people who just started without a single weapon in their equipment.

People complain most of the time due to the lack of cooperation in the game, but that's what happens when people can do virtually anything in a computer game, they just act like jerks and bash each other.

I bet the main purpose of the mod - at least when it was being designed - wasn't just so people could shoot each other hiding in bushes, cooperation is still a part of the environment, but people most of the time forget about this.

If you think it's fine the way it is, it's either because you roll with clan members or a group of friends or because you're one of the bush-wookies hiding out there, just think about it :D .

No cooperation involved means the game is not different from the rest of the FPS shooters out there, in a 225km² free-for-all match.

As soon as the developers figure out a way to promote cooperation (instead of just punishing banditry) i bet most of the complains will stop, and we'll have some peace.

This is my opinion, i'm not trying to convince anyone.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Fenrig

[Kiro (DayZ) 57]

Cause of this here ^

People expect a survival game, not a giant PVP match. How can you possibly say that its normal for people to expect a PVP when its supposed to be a survival game? No one knows its full pvp when they start playing, Since its being advertised as a survival game. You're just making no sence.

Sorry if I sounded harsh in my original post, English isn't my first language and I don't always sound how I want to. It was just a sincere question, I'm curious as to what players expected when they started playing and why they were disapointed by the PvP.

IMO PvP is a huge part of the survival. Once you find a weapon and you understand how the zombies work, you can easily sneak past them and kill them, they're not really a problem except if you're unlucky and they break your legs.

The players on the other hand are smart, they can ambush you in buildings, spot you from the other side of the town and hunt you. That's really exciting and the adrenaline rush when you see or hear another survivor never gets old.

The description on the site says it all : "Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive."... But yeah, it isn't for everyone, that's not cool that you bought the game and you don't like it. Well at least you can play other Arma II mods, like Project Reality :)

EDIT :

By your tone i bet you're one of the people who make the others complain.

Meh, sorry, my people skills are rusty :/

You are allowed to kill people, although it doesn't mean you have to start killing EVERYONE, even people who just started without a single weapon in their equipment.

Well, last night I killed a new player, it was pitch-black and he used his torchlight, I couldn't see if he had a weapon or not. I needed a weapon and tools, so I killed him. He didn't have anything except a toolbox. And well, I needed that toolbox so his death wasn't in vain :)

People complain most of the time due to the lack of cooperation in the game

I bet the main purpose of the mod - at least when it was being designed - wasn't just so people could shoot each other hiding in bushes, cooperation is still a part of the environment, but people most of the time forget about this.

I play with my friends most of the time. A lot of people are looking for teammates on the forum, it's not that hard to find someone you can trust and play with them all the time, the game is more fun with a group of people and it reduces the risk of getting killed.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Kiro

[Another Justin 0]

I bought the game as a Zombie survival simulation - the permanent death feature is amazing because it actually makes you care about staying alive, and the player interaction makes things unpredictable enough to make that actually a challenge. In particular the brutality of a post-apocalyptica makes contact with other humans particularly tense - finding another human alize is a rare and exciting event! Are they friendly or are they going to kill you on sight and steal all of your stuff? Should you ask them for help, run away or shoot first? This kind of brutal realism is unique to DayZ and combined with the permanent death make for an incredibly tense experience truly gripping experience that is like no other FPS I've ever played.

Of course once you have played DayZ for a while you come to realise that the only players who won't shoot you on sight are the ones that don't have a gun. I know this because even I now shoot on sight - this completely ruins the tense atmosphere of these interactions. Either you are armed in which case it becomes a fairly standard (albeit very tactical) FPS experience, or your not, in which case there isn't really much you can do except wait to respawn (one of my favourites was the guy stood right next to me who was desparately trying to kill me with a crossbow. It took him a couple of minutes, but seeing as I didn't even have a hatchet there wasn't a whole lot I could do about it).

I like that I get killed a lot, what I'm not keen on is that every player interaction turns into a fairly standard FPS encounter - For me the appeal of the game is the immersion in a brutal battle for survival (against both humans and zombies) and I'm simply not the sort of person who goes around shooting people I see on sight. At the moment it seems that my only alternative is to simply avoid other players, but without player interaction the game lacks depth.

[Doyle McPoyle 77]

watch the road

[skyter 299]

One of the requirements for the game is "balls", dont think a lot of people fulfil this.

As for the "newbie", it is very easy to throw a gun in ur backpack then sneakily pull it out when no one is looking and shoot, especially a rifle.

too bad starting backpacks don't have enough slots. "balls" to kill someone

get real. It takes more balls to let someone live in this game

[vekien 84]

too bad starting backpacks don't have enough slots. "balls" to kill someone

get real. It takes more balls to let someone live in this game

hahah, surprised you guys took me seriously, lighten up a little it was a joke, because its on the front page... and people complain like crying little girls, who dont have balls... ya noe, ruined now i had to explain it ... :)