Suggestion to improve trust/interaction among players

[Womble (DayZ) 3]

Hello DayZ Community!

I'll get to my suggestion to in a moment, but first i want ramble for a few lines.

Feel free to skip the next bit if you don't care about why and how came up with the idea i am about to suggest to the community.

I've really enjoyed my time with DayZ and still do, but i feel that the game has changed since i started. Both how it feels and how i play it.

When i started out i helped a few guys, made a few friends only to be doublecrossed or shot by unseen snipers.

I don't really mind that (much) and i think i understand the thrill of hunting other players and potentially stealing their stuff and ruining their day.

The problem is that i feel that i'm forced to shoot the other survivors i come across in order to survive myself. I simply can't trust them enough for it to be worth the risk of letting them live and thats too bad, because i really want to play with other survivors (also random people i meet ingame)

THE SUGGESTION PART:

1.Players should be able distinquish Peacefull survivors from Bandits. This would help survivors trust eachother and encourage teamplay more.

I suggest using reusing the "Bandit skin" model or something else highly visable through a sniper scope.

2. players know a character with a survivor skin is unable to harm them, they will be more inclined to team up with that person.

I suggest Friendly fire among survivors should be turned OFF. DON'T PANIC! Just keep reading.

3. Players should be able to turn into "Bandits" at will. This will keep the pvp crowd happy since they will just turn into Bandits and continue to do what they do the best and it will also let players to kill the guy that took the last can of beans.

I suggest implementing an option in a menu or in the inventory that allows the player to change into a Bandit.

Bandits can shoot and kill Survivors and survivors can shoot kill bandits. (friendly fire is ON)

Perhaps the best Mechanic for changing into a bandit would be to move the bandit players to a another team, no idea if rocket can hack arma to do this, but i'm not a game designer so i'll let him figure that out.

Since bandits and Survivors are on diffrent teams, friendlyfire would no longer apply.

Once a players have joined RED(bandit) team, they cannot go back to blue(survivor)

Everyone will be able to see that you are a killer and you are going to get shot at if they see you. ( That is the consequence of being a killer )

This game mechanic would let people kill those they think worthy of a bullet, and give peacefull survivors a chance to trust eachother (a little) more.

It will perhaps also give people reason to pause and think..."Is this guy really worth getting bandit status over".

It could also open the door to interesting mechanics/gameplay.

Here is a few from the top of my head:

- Disguises that gives you the opposite teams skin.

- Bandit status after seriuos theft

- Redemption back to survivor status when certain criteria is met (time past and/or action taken

- Bandit only items like: bandana & sombrero" (It's all about hats, you know! ;) )

- The ability to see how many players are on each team when you log in.

ANYWAY, this is my halfbaked idea. I hope we can have a constructive debate about if this idea would work or not?

Regards

Womble

Edited July 17, 2012 by Womble

[NeonSaber 0]

Honestly, this sounds like the best way to build the trust of players (atleast i think so).

Neat idea,

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

Been suggested many times and still sounds terrible. Pretty sure it will never happen either.

[Hendrix27 54]

Rocket isn't for doing something like that, and this idea has been suggested 13827897324827304327423894 times.

[Womble (DayZ) 3]

Been suggested many times and still sounds terrible. Pretty sure it will never happen either.

Oh! i didn't know it had allready been suggested.

Would you care to elaborate on why you think it wouldn't work?

Where has rocket said that he was against "something like that"?

Edited July 17, 2012 by Womble

[thorgold 91]

No. This would badly detract from the authentic paranoia response that is currently produced by survivor-bandit ID issues. There was a reason that bandit skins were removed - they painted bandits too easily as "Kill this guy," which effectively was a condemnation of the style of play. Anything that makes a bandit more easily identified - and therefore, easier to kill (that hesitation of "is he friendly?" is a key advantage for bandits) - is a nerf to an entire player group that is completely unfair.

There will never, ever, EVER be a hard-coded differentiation between bandits and survivors that is more deliberate than the current heartbeat alert. You can't tell the difference between a sociopath and a normal person in real life (see: "He was such a normal guy!" in EVERY NEWS REPORT EVER), why should you be able to tell the difference between a bandit and a survivor?

The inability to tell the difference is the key part of PvP.

And don't even FUCKING suggest hats. You are a horrible person for even thinking about thinking about that, and I hope you die in a raging cancer fire. /hyperbole

[Womble (DayZ) 3]

No. This would badly detract from the authentic paranoia response that is currently produced by survivor-bandit ID issues. There was a reason that bandit skins were removed - they painted bandits too easily as "Kill this guy," which effectively was a condemnation of the style of play. Anything that makes a bandit more easily identified - and therefore, easier to kill (that hesitation of "is he friendly?" is a key advantage for bandits) - is a nerf to an entire player group that is completely unfair.

There will never, ever, EVER be a hard-coded differentiation between bandits and survivors that is more deliberate than the current heartbeat alert. You can't tell the difference between a sociopath and a normal person in real life (see: "He was such a normal guy!" in EVERY NEWS REPORT EVER), why should you be able to tell the difference between a bandit and a survivor?

The inability to tell the difference is the key part of PvP.

And don't even FUCKING suggest hats. You are a horrible person for even thinking about thinking about that, and I hope you die in a raging cancer fire. /hyperbole

I completly agree that the paranioa is an important part of DayZ and i have no wish for that to diminish at all.

But from my own experience with DayZ the rampant playerkilling is actually diminishing the paranoia even more than i think my suggestion would.

Currently i act as if everyone was out to get me, and that doesn't really add to the paranoia, it just makes me not want to engage in other player interaction than shooting them through the head,

I think DayZ could more than it's current state and i doubt that you know anything more about what code goes in than i do.

DayZ is about storytelling according to rocket and i believe my suggestion would make better ones.

You are offcourse intitled to your opinion and i respect that

PS. The hat part was ment as a joke.

That you failed to realise that tells me you might be taking this game abit to seriously.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Womble

[jay.pis 32]

Or they can tie in the players steam username with their in-game character so it'll be about their reputation. Players tend to think twice before they do anything when they know they are tied down to something such as a username.

[moisan4 26]

Yes paranoia in a zombie apocalypse is healthy mental state, but there are real world applications to wearing distinctive clothing. Why do you think street and biker gangs wear distinctive colors and insignias? Why do you think every military in the world has distinctive camouflage patterns used for different terrains that are distinctive from other militaries? The answer, friendly fire.

There are two situations that make this a worldwide practice used by every military and non-military organization in the world that engages in armed combat. First, to be distinguished on sight as friend or foe, hesitation gets you killed. The second reason is less apparent unless you’ve actually been in the shit. When shit goes down, it’s insane and chaotic, without visual distinction you’re just as likely to shoot friend as you are foe.

This is authentic to the real world, and arguing that everyone should always look the same wouldn’t even be practical in a zombie apocalypse. If you’re with a small or large band, clan, gang, etcetera, you want to be able to distinguish each other from other people for the two reasons listed above. And considering this is a game where facial recognition isn’t possible, I believe that some other form of distinction is not only authentic, but a requirement.

Edited July 17, 2012 by moisan4

[Legacy (DayZ) 1091]

And don't even FUCKING suggest hats. You are a horrible person for even thinking about thinking about that, and I hope you die in a raging cancer fire. /hyperbole

I want hats, to show off my worth to other players! Can we have tophats? Please? I want a modest pile of hats. Or a pyromancer skull.

[thorgold 91]

PS. The hat part was ment as a joke.

That you failed to realise that tells me you might be taking this game abit to seriously.

Nuts, the /hyperbole tag was ineffective. Should've been /sarcasm instead.

[datguy (DayZ) 157]

No. This would badly detract from the authentic paranoia response that is currently produced by survivor-bandit ID issues. There was a reason that bandit skins were removed - they painted bandits too easily as "Kill this guy,"

Hold on a second, you're QQing about bandits getting killed on sight, when the only way to become a bandit when the skin was in was to routinely kill on sight? Haven't you ever heard about paybacks, and how they're a bitch? What about irony, heard of that?

As far as I'm concerned habitiual player killers should have a big fuck off flashing light over their heads that says I kill people, kill me. and it should also attract zombies. Fuck it, make the light carcinogenic too. If you think it's fun to go around killing other players you're the last person who should be crying about getting killed. Otherwise you're a bigger pussy than the "carebaers" you like stalking and preying on from your safe distant hide, with your sniper rifle.

Edited July 17, 2012 by datguy

[aversionfx 63]

THE SUGGESTION PART:

1.Players should be able distinquish Peacefull survivors from Bandits. This would help survivors trust eachother and encourage teamplay more.

I suggest using reusing the "Bandit skin" model or something else highly visable through a sniper scope.

I guess I can get behind this. Although I would prefer if the community kind of "established" among itself what specific skins were "bandits" rather than the game flat-out telling you "these guys are bad, kill them on sight." I don't want ANY "hard" guides in the game. I like that the game is completely ambiguous. There are absolutely no indicators about anyone in the game other than their actions. I want it to stay that way. I want there to be a selection of skins, and all of them are neutral, with a few of them being "clearly" used by bandits.

3. Players should be able to turn into "Bandits" at will. This will keep the pvp crowd happy since they will just turn into Bandits and continue to do what they do the best and it will also let players to kill the guy that took the last can of beans.

I suggest implementing an option in a menu or in the inventory that allows the player to change into a Bandit.

Bandits can shoot and kill Survivors and survivors can shoot kill bandits. (friendly fire is ON)

Too easy to abuse. "Hey, look at me, I"m a friendly survivor, let's go survive together. OH! Now I'm a bandit, and now all of your things belong to me." No thanks.

[thorgold 91]

Hold on a second, you're QQing about bandits getting killed on sight, when the only way to become a bandit when the skin was in was to routinely kill on sight? Haven't you ever heard about paybacks, and how they're a bitch? What about irony, heard of that?

The problem was not that it caused bandits to be KoS, the problem was that it differentiated. Survivors hesitate when they see other survivors - it may be a noob, a friendly, or just a random dude; I don't have to engage. Seeing someone with a bandit skin, however, not only says "Hey, this guy is definitely dangerous, don't even bother not shooting" but also says "Hey, it's totally okay to kill this guy without worrying about moral implications." Not all people are KoS, despite what the carebears on the forum cry about, but when bandit skins were in even the most fluffy of the carebears would take a shot at him.

As far as I'm concerned habitiual player killers should have a big fuck off flashing light over their heads that says I kill people, kill me. and it should also attract zombies. Fuck it, make the light carcinogenic too. If you think it's fun to go around killing other players you're the last person who should be crying about getting killed. Otherwise you're a bigger pussy than the "carebaers" you like stalking and preying on from your safe distant hide, with your sniper rifle.

Again, let's see how this stands up to ZedsDeadBaby's mirror example.

If you don't kill bandits, you're a bad person. Why let evil survive in the world? We might as well put blinking lights over their heads saying "Kill me, I'm a coward who won't shoot back." Fuck it, make the light carcinogenic, too. If they don't have the balls to shoot a hostile player, they should be the last people crying about getting killed. Otherwise you just end up with a bunch of pansies who argue over who gets to loot the barracks first instead of playing like survivors and fighting for survival.

You assume that banditry is, by its own nature, a "wrong" playstyle that should be punished by "Shoot me" skins and insanity debuffs. There is no "wrong" way to play DayZ, and claiming that PvPers like snipers and for-fun bandits are "more pussy than carebaers" is the most blatantly ignorant thing you can say. It's like saying you can build a sandcastle wrong!

I love how you assume I'm a bandit. Check my stats (well, when they're available at some point in the undisclosed future). Zero murders, zero bandit kills. I run from firefights and I give any snipers I find to whoever's running overwatch on the clan raids of NWA.

Edited July 17, 2012 by thorgold

[NoxZA 2]

The only solution would be to add more incentives to be a survivor without removing anything from being a bandit. Like I said a while back, blood bags are a good example. Effectively it's a full HP potion in this game but you can not use it on yourself, it has to be given to you by another players. This forces players that are low on blood (basically HP in this game) to team up with at least one other person if they want to get their blood back. Of course there is the alternative of eating a lot of food to get your blood back up, but if you are on 5k blood or less that's a lot of food that you will have to find, and simply getting a blood transfusion is easier. More items such as the blood bag is needed to improve teamwork.

There can be other examples of this. Something like you need a toolbox to fix a car, having them spawn very rarely and not being able to loot them off of dead players. Now this is a terrible idea since now bandits can't fix cars on their own (taking away something from bandits), but I still think it's a good example. Now players that want to fix vehicles but don't have a toolbox will also be forced to find other players that may have a toolbox. This forces them to come out of the tree lines and approach other players to try and find out if they have a toolbox and if they are willing to help. PS. Like I said, horrible idea. Please do not think I want this in the game, it can be exploited horribly. Bandits could just claim they have a toolbox to lure someone out and then just shoot them. Just an example of how items can be used to help teams be formed.

The other thing that will help with people teaming up is to make the zombies more difficult to deal with. With harder zeds players are still free to PvP as much as they like, but if it's far easier to clear out a town with more people than less than players will think twice before just gunning everyone down. Currently they are of a minimal threat since even unarmed players can get rid of them, but they are still very basic in their design and I think once they are fleshed out a bit they will become more of a challenge to deal with.

Edited July 17, 2012 by NoxZA

[vier0hr 21]

I really agree with the team idea. or at least for some servers only.

[thorgold 91]

The only solution would be to add more incentives to be a survivor without removing anything from being a bandit.

Pre-fucking-cisely.

Buff survivors, don't nerf bandits. Nerfing everything is what Blizzard does, and I doubt any of us want DayZ to go down that path.

[aversionfx 63]

I don't think the solution to dealing with PVP is by changing zombies at all - people are still dying to zombies all the time. But to be honest, the people dying most often to zombies are not the kind of people who should be playing DayZ. Those people are too impatient, too impulsive, and too reckless. They are exactly the kind of people who would get weeded out of the gene pool at the first sign of trouble.

And also, something I think a lot of people are overlooking with all of these suggestions. If you create incentives for teamwork, grouping up and supporting each other, do you have any idea who also benefits from that? Bandits.

Most of the people who are roaming around, killing players, are doing so in a group.

Edited July 17, 2012 by aversionfx

[NoxZA 2]

^This is why there needs to be incentives for groups to allow other players to join rather than just shooting them. The zombies will be changed, if you think they are gonna stay in this state forever then you are naive. They are too basic and will get harder over time. Like right now you can just infinitely outrun them without any trouble, they will never hit you since they stop before they attack, giving you time to get out of attack range. This is not a good zombie if it can't even attack you while you run away, making them no threat at all. Just run into a building with two entrances, wait for the zombies to group up around one entrance, exit via the other. Viola. No more zombies.

Pre-fucking-cisely.

Buff survivors, don't nerf bandits. Nerfing everything is what Blizzard does, and I doubt any of us want DayZ to go down that path.

It's not about buffing survivors. Buffing implies that they should have an edge over the bandits in same way, like some of the retarded suggestions like having bandits have slower movement speed after each kill. Rather, the game itself should give each player the option to be whatever he wants without limiting a playstyle because of this or that.

[datguy (DayZ) 157]

You assume that banditry is, by its own nature, a "wrong" playstyle that should be punished by "Shoot me" skins and insanity debuffs. There is no "wrong" way to play DayZ, and claiming that PvPers like snipers and for-fun bandits are "more pussy than carebaers" is the most blatantly ignorant thing you can say. It's like saying you can build a sandcastle wrong!

I love how you assume I'm a bandit. Check my stats (well, when they're available at some point in the undisclosed future). Zero murders, zero bandit kills. I run from firefights and I give any snipers I find to whoever's running overwatch on the clan raids of NWA.

cool, a mindreader! Will I marry soon? What number am I thinking of right now? Man you must KILL IT at Casinos, knowing what people are thinking.

Or did you just make an assumption? I think you did. I think you have no idea what I'm assuming, and missed the irony of making assumptions about what you assume I'm assuming. I also think you're not very good at context cues, and you've been a tad defensive for someone who's claiming to not be a bandit.

Bandit skins won't come back but I wish they would. Again, if you don't have a problem with killing other players, you're the last one who should start bitching about other players killing you, especially if you consider every other player you see a target yourself. Especially if you pride yourself and gloat about killcounts in the forums. Especially if you post youtube videos showing how proud you are of shooting others in the back. and that's what a lot of bandits are doing. So do you seriously think I give a shit if they're worried about other people killing them on sight based on an unmistakable indication that the person you're looking at kills other players often enough to have a bandit skin? They should suck it up, or play differently if it bothers them. It's not wrong to be a bandit, God knows what crack you pulled that idea out of, but put it back. I kill players sometimes. I give high end sniper rifles to clanmates who use them to kill people. I fucking love PvP, and I'm not afraid to wear a skin that shows it. Question is, are you?

Edited July 17, 2012 by datguy

[NoxZA 2]

^It's not about being afraid to wear the skin, it's about having all the players on equal footing. The bandit skin was horrible since it would make survivors superior to bandits. Simply having the skin meant that a bandit wouldn't be able to loot a town with other people nearby since they will just open fire, while if they saw a survivor they might not. This just puts bandits at a disadvantage based on a visual queue alone.

To add more to the problem, sometimes people that kill out of self defence would get a bandit skin. This happened to me back in the day when my group was engaged by another group so we fought back. After I killed three of the other group I got a bandit skin. This was out of self defence, if we ran we would mostly likely have died since we would be out in the open so we had to fight.

To add even more to the problem, it really puts players in one group and kinda insists that they stay there. What I mean by this is, in the current game as it is now players are free to do what they want. Every time they spawn a new character they can choose from the start how they are going to play. With the bandit skin it limits you. Knowing that other players will start shooting at you for no other reason than having a bandit skin really just tells the player that they might as well stay a bandit. It just says "Look, you got a bandit skin, you're gona have it for a long time. People will shoot at you, so screw trying to cooperate, just fucking kill everyone you see."

[aversionfx 63]

The bandit skin was horrible since it would make survivors superior to bandits. Simply having the skin meant that a bandit wouldn't be able to loot a town with other people nearby since they will just open fire

Which is incredibly different from how things are now.

[vision1776 42]

I like the heart beat idea the way it is. I actually ran across someone with that "Heartbeat" and I killed him but it ended up giving me a murder. Apparently a survivor was cursed with the heart beat. Oh well so sad for him. I am putting his loot to good use anyhow.

[NoxZA 2]

Which is incredibly different from how things are now.

It is different. People are killing other players left and right. At least it's not because of bandit skins any more. Now it's more because people find it too easy to survive alone and get bored, so they turn to PvP to spice things up.

[lightnings0ul 19]

^It's not about being afraid to wear the skin, it's about having all the players on equal footing. The bandit skin was horrible since it would make survivors superior to bandits. Simply having the skin meant that a bandit wouldn't be able to loot a town with other people nearby since they will just open fire, while if they saw a survivor they might not. This just puts bandits at a disadvantage based on a visual queue alone.

If you are serious, you are f******* out of your mind:

Bandit: shoots everyone on sight.

Bandit having bandit skin: gets shot by everyone on sight.

Where's the freaking disadvantage? -.-

Btw. I am not exactly for the bandit skin but I am for sth. that will bring back teamwork between the survivors and I don't count me in on that as I am having a 8 man team on my server and don't fucking care about any single bandits sitting on a hill lameassing their boringness to perfection.

:)

Edited July 17, 2012 by lg{R}