Discussion: Solution for disconnecting, server hopping

[frantix (DayZ) 14]

Edit: latest idea: see post #7

I tried to find a working solution with pro and contra. Please add what I maybe not have thought about, or give another working solution with pro/contra. I will update this first post with other ideas so we hopefully cover all aspects and find the best possible solution.

Basic idea: Punish disconnects during confrontations, let people log out safely when they are in a safe situation, and leave people the choice how they log off.

Conditions:

• The solution should discourage people from disconnecting during a firefight or to get rid of aggro zombies
  
• The solution should not make it dangerous to log out with purpose, when you are in a safe environment
  
• You should be able to log out within a short time, for example when you have to quit fast to catch your bus (in real life)
  
• The solution should be fast and easy to implement into the game
  
• Optional: The solution should make "server hopping" harder or less attractive
  

Concept:

• After Alt-F4, Quit, or disconnect, the character disappears after one minute edit: 20-60 seconds (can be tweaked)
  
• To log out safely, you can get out a bivy (new start item, can’t be dropped) which takes 30 seconds to put on; alternative: be close to your tent (problem: ownership; strategic tent placing to be able to log out instantly), be close and sit next to a campfire, then a message appears "You can now log out safely".
  
• Optional: “zombie zone” – 5 minutes log out time (a warning appears) if there is a zombie arround you in a 100m radius (to avoid people from logging out in cities or close to loot spots)
  
• Alternative to the “zombie zone”: 5 minutes log out time in a “danger zone” around loot spots (for example no fast log out in the whole northwest airfield, cherno, electro, …)
  
• For the time the character takes to log out, people cannot log in to another server
  

Pro:

• You can chose: log out instantly and your character stays on the server for one (optional: five) minutes, or take out your bivy and watch your surroundings for 30 seconds, after this you can instantly and savely log off
  
• Even when you have a real disconnect, there is a chance that you survive when you are not close to a zombie / bandit OR when you are in a group that can protect you; you only die during a fight and when nobody can protect you
  
• during the 30 seconds you wait in your bivy, you can get out fast and shoot at anything that might harm you
  
• a real disconnect WITHOUT a server disconnect is a rare event and can be avoided (simply take care of your 24h-disconnect)
  
• The game would be a really better experience because people can no longer abuse this game mechanic to win or avoid a confrontation
  
• realistic because the character sleeps in a bivy
  
• (optional zombie / danger zones): you get a warning that you have a long log-out time and can still chose to leave the zombie/danger zone
  
• When you have a real disconnect, you can login to the same server again in less than a minute and therefore still (maybe) “safe” your character from being killed
  
• can still log out in a short time (simply run into the woods and get out your bivy, or let a friend guard your character)
  

Con:

• if somebody REALLY has a disconnect, his character will stay for 20-60 seconds and maybe die
  
• it would be annoying to die after you have a real disconnect
  
• it's maybe not the EASIEST solution to implement (I don't know about this)
  

Side effect: Less server hopping for farming loot:

• The above idea “zombie zone” would reduce server hopping a little bit, because people would have to run away from loot spots to be able to log out; when logging into another server, they need to make a new approach
  
• The “danger zone” would also reduce server hopping out of the same reason
  

Edited July 16, 2012 by frantix

[Fooz (DayZ) 46]

That is a great idea man, not sure if possible but maybe the player only stays behind if he aborts or Alt+F4's and if the player is disconnected due to connection errors or something then he disappears instantly.

again not sure if any code can be written to detect what the reason the player disconnected but if so it would make it safe for people with connection errors and make server hopping and DCing in a fight impossibru

[frantix (DayZ) 14]

Thanks, I also thought about this but I think it is not possible for DayZ to detect the reason behind a disconnect. There is surely a way to disconnect with another key combination.

But this brings me to an even easier alternative which could be implemented very fast: Your character still remains ingame for 1 minute when you disconnect, but you can disconnect safely with the option menu: You press "Disconnect", then a window pops up "Wait 30 seconds to disconnect safely", and after the countdown you're out. No bivy item required and I guess not much program code. When you are attacked within this 30 sec. you notice it and can abort the logout process.

Edited July 16, 2012 by frantix

[sticky 7]

I'm not sure if I like the "zombie-zone" part, I sometimes log out in town or near other zombie spawns simply because I don't have the time at the moment to sneak away, or run away and then deal with a ton of aggro. If zombie respawns weren't so quick I'd say you need to neutralize the zombies in your area before logging out, although I can still see problems with this when needing to leave in a hurry or logging out unarmed.

Alternate solution to server hopping: Player location is saved server-side (stats and equipment is still saved in the hive), so if you try to switch servers you will spawn in on the beach, you will still have all your gear (I'd hate to lose it all just because my usual server was down) but you will likely be nowhere near where you were on the old server. Once you spawn in a new server your old position is wiped from the last server.

Pros: There would no longer be a way to ghost or cheat past barricades. The only way to farm the NW airfield or other distant high yield location is to stick to one server and wait for the loot to respawn.

Cons: You tell me.

[iconoplast 22]

Overall I would say, the simplest solution is having the player remain in the server fro 5-10 seconds after logging off. 1 minute is entirely too long in the world where your being there may aggro a Z that may spawn. The issue with log outs is an issue if you are shooting them, I've seen this many times, players being LIT UP, then logging off before dying, I've seen it in vids. Literally if someone has to log out in a say Cherno because something happens, alot can happen in 1 minute and alot of players would die. 5-10 seconds is ideal because the chronic cases of loggers will be quelled if this happens.

I think the 5-10 second log out was going to be implimented on a previous update.

[frantix (DayZ) 14]

Thanks for your thoughts!

@Sticky: Thats a point I also found out - what if someone has to log out fast? The solution would be, as soon as you enter a city you know that it will take you a while to disconnect. It's the same with other games, almost any game, especially online games: You can't log out fast, but you can deal with this, because you know in advance :) You second idea: "Player location saved server-side"... I think the beauty in DayZ is that you CAN switch servers and be independent, imagine a server going down suddenly or keeps crashing, has lags etc. - now when you are on nw airfield with your friends and just have to change server because it lags, all of you have a long way to walk up again. Also, this would be a massive change in the program code which does not fit with the condition "should be easy to implement".

@iconoplast: True, the time could be tweaked a little bit, maybe between 10 to 30 seconds. But also I think that one minute is no problem, imagine you run out of Cherno, in 2 minutes you are in a forest with no zombie (problem: in future patches I read there will be zombies in forests!). And as I said, you have the option to "watch your character logging out" for the given time, and after the time has passed you can log out instantly. 5 seconds would be too less, imagine an injured player running behind cover in a distance could still disconnect before you can run to him to finish him off. I will still change the one minute to 20-60 seconds or something, the exact time is not that important because during your log-off you can still watch your character and stop the logout to kill a zombie at any time.

[D4saken1 80]

Another solution would be to make a countdown timer like you said.

Make it for 30 seconds and any hit zombie or otherwise cancels the disconnect attempt and the process starts over again. ALT+F4 will still require the 30 second no aggro (hit or shots taken) before the character actually logs out. Worst case you have to go and get bogged down somehow and get hit multiple times but in most cases hunkering down until the 30 seconds pass should not be a problem.

Waiting for the countdown lets you react if a zombie comes or someone shoots. Movement (walking not looking..) cancels the countdown as well.

Edit:

This is kind of how a lot of MMO's work with logging out. The safe zone thing could apply but there would be a problem with ownership for tent camps etc. An Alt+F4'er would just probably place a tent by them while they hide to pvp a spot or something of the sorts. I think 30 seconds would be good for anyone, not too long and not ineffectively short.

Edited July 16, 2012 by D4saken1

[frantix (DayZ) 14]

Meanwhile I would also prefer this most simple and effective solution. Any thoughts against it?

[iconoplast 22]

@ Frantix - I think it should start out small and increase as needed, I think there's a sweet spot, where it can do what it's intended to do (i.e. prevent death dodging) and not cause players an ulcer because they think their characters could be dead upon logging in. Too long you run the risk of z's spawning in an aggroing or a lucky player you dind't know about coming around and killing you, regardless, I am sure there are many situations where players would come back to find an injured, unconcious or dead character and this will cause rage, likewise too short there will still be exploits.

The issue is this, can this sufficiently be solved using this method without pissing off too many players by causing problematic injuries or deaths along the way. Too many times a play is being fired upon and DC after being hit once or twice, I've seen this a majority of times, it's a last minute thing, so 5 seconds would eliminate this. Other times other players could have enough time to run and DC. Regadless it's more about the timing thing.

I like D4saken1's idea.

[D4saken1 80]

I think we may have offended OP, my sincerest old chap.

[whocares 1]

I think staying 5 seconds after a disconnect should be enough - too many valid reasons to disconnect and too much can happen in 1 minute, even in a place you thought is safe.

And reallife interrupts are often of the nature that you don't have 5 mins to find such a safe place.

I actually like the idea to take Zeds with you to the respawn that was meant to come with 1.7.2, but was skipped due some other exploit.

Regarding server hopping, there are a number of valid reasons,

(in the meaning of living your v-life on more than one server, not binding it to a single server)

Just some not playing style related reasons:

• server runs wrong patch version
  
• server full
  
• server offline
  
• server discontinued by the host
  

Other reasons:

• "distributing risks" from above by having tents on different servers
  
• server at wrong time (night?)
  
• playing with friends that happen to be on a different server
  

To fight excessive server hopping, the re-login might be delayed, maybe depending on how long you were active before, like

• >60mins => 1min delay; not much more than now anyway ;)
  
• 45-60mins => 2min
  
• 30-45mins => 3mins
  
• 15-30mins => 4mins
  
• <15mins => 5mins
  

Edited July 16, 2012 by WhoCares

[sticky 7]

@Sticky: Thats a point I also found out - what if someone has to log out fast? The solution would be, as soon as you enter a city you know that it will take you a while to disconnect. It's the same with other games, almost any game, especially online games: You can't log out fast, but you can deal with this, because you know in advance :) You second idea: "Player location saved server-side"... I think the beauty in DayZ is that you CAN switch servers and be independent, imagine a server going down suddenly or keeps crashing, has lags etc. - now when you are on nw airfield with your friends and just have to change server because it lags, all of you have a long way to walk up again. Also, this would be a massive change in the program code which does not fit with the condition "should be easy to implement".

"The solution would be, as soon as you enter a city you know that it will take you a while to disconnect/You can't log out fast, but you can deal with this, because you know in advance" Not so true for me, this game throws curveballs all the time, sometimes i can get in and out with a bag full of loot in <20 minutes, other times every zombie decides to wander across my path, nearby gunfire causes me to be even more cautious, or the always possible chance of breaking a leg (my character seriously needs more calcium). If i only have an hour to devote to gaming today, are you saying I should stay away from all zombie and loot spawns because unforeseen circumstances may force me to spend the entire hour in that area?

"imagine a server going down suddenly or keeps crashing, has lags etc. - now when you are on nw airfield with your friends and just have to change server because it lags, all of you have a long way to walk up again." It would suck to have to walk the whole way again, but if it stops server-hopping ghosters and loot-farmers I'd put up with it on the odd day when my default server is buggy. It would also promote people picking a specific home server, building more of a community in each server and perhaps curtailing some of the less honorable banditry.

"this would be a massive change in the program code which does not fit with the condition "should be easy to implement"." I'm not a coder but I'm willing to argue that theoretically my way is simpler than your danger-zone/timer log out plan. The hive already keeps track of your gear, kills, location and numerous other stats, it doesn't seem like much to have it remember which server you last played on. Plus the game already spawns players randomly on the beach so there's no new coding there. Here's the simplified non-code coding for my plan: "player X last played on server Y, player X last logged out at coordinates XYZ, if player X logs in to server Y spawn at coordinates XYZ, if player X logs in to any other server spawn at random coastal location."

[frantix (DayZ) 14]

@Sticky:

Your first point: One hour is enough time to loot Cherno, and when you have no zombie directly chasing you, you can safely log out right in the middle of Cherno AFTER waiting 30 seconds - no problem at all, no risk for you, not much time needed :)

2nd point: True, it would have advantages I totally see them too. But maybe there is another good solution which still makes it possible to log in to other servers without having to be placed on the coast (which is also unrealistic). Also, what if somebody says "I need medical supplys, I will log into another server to spawn at the coast."?

3nd point: You're right, maybe it is not that hard to implement.

Edited July 17, 2012 by frantix

[kozzy420 39]

5-15 seconds would be enough, 1 minute is to much.