Why no bandit skin could work

[cat (DayZ) 22]

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Introduction

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I just read that the bandit skins will be removed soon. At first I was thinking „WTF is he doing? Crazy! The game will be rampant deathmatch!“

Then I was thinking about my experiences from last night.

I am a bandit, I hunt players. And more importantly I hunt alone. After respawning I found myself on the beach at Kamenka. It was night ingame and there was a rainstorm, visibility was low, you could make out some terrain features and it was not pitch black.

So there I was, quite far away from the larger towns, with a makarov pistol and no good gear close by. Walked along the coast when I read some ingame chatter that players wanted to meet at the lighthouse and I knew there was one near. So I moved to it and saw a lit flare, I quickly extinguished my flare and moveed within 100m of the flare. A group of 5 survivors had gathered and decided to move east and loot places on the way. One player carried a flare, which provided an easy target for me to follow.

So I stalked them, always a few meters outside of the flare light radius. At one point, there was a lighting which briefly illuminated everything, and it caused me to go prone. One player of teh group apparently noticed something in that bush (me) and ran towards it. When he came too close, I fired a whole clip of makarov ammo and killed him, then I quickly ran away. The others heard the shots but assumed the player ran away to kill zombies and did not bother looking for him.

I kept stalking the group for some time then logged out.

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Social dynamic

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What is interesting about this story is the social dynamics that were displayed. I was a lone player that was out to kill them. But for lack of a good weapon I had to stalk the group, because I was outnumbered 4 to 1 (and later 5 more joined the group).

So without them knowing, their pack behaviour shielded them from my attack. I would have probably caused damage with a CZ550, but anything less than a scoped rifle would have been too risky.

So why am I explaining all this?

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deal with it

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I think I figured out what rocket is doing here. He basically confronts players with harsh situations and let's them figure it out on their own how to deal with it.

By removing the bandit designation, there is no way to tell wether you can trust a stranger. So what is the only solution to handle it?

The guys I stalked handled the situation, perhaps without being aware of it. It was night, my bandit skin did make no difference because I was not visible to them. Their natural instinct to band together with others for protection made it impossible for me to attack without getting at least shot at.

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The odd

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Let's put it into some numbers:

When being alone, risking close contact with a stranger puts you into a 1:1 situation.

When a group of 5 has to meet a stranger, the odd shifts to 5:1.

It would be very risky in that situation for the lone player to attack as he will be outgunned. However the group has a very low risk when attacking the lone player for the same reason.

Now what stops a 5 man group of shooting a lone player they meet? Nothing. The risk of getting killed when you are in a group of 5 opening fire on a lone player is very low.

But hey that would open up the possibility for abuse against lone players when you are outnumbering him! Wrong! Because the lone player is a smart animal and brings his friends too!

So if a 5 player group meets another 5 player group, the odds are at 1:1. So if both teams open fire on each other it will be very risky for everyone.

The basic point is that a bandit player will only attack if he has the advantage over the enemy.

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Figure it out b*tches!

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And I think that is what rocket is trying to have us figure out:

Form blobs of players, the larger the group, the less likely new contacts will try to sneak into the group and murder when someone turns their back. This way you can absorb new players into the group. Groups form the easiest among players that just respawned as they do not have any gear that would be worth fighting over, and being in a group offers protection from bandits and allows access to more contested loot areas.

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EDIT

I think it will end up in complete deathmatch, except for if you play with people you know.

[i wub pugs 16]

I just want cammo because the PMC skin is hella gay... even if that cammo is meant for the desert.

[survivalist 19]

So does this mean I'll be reverting back to a white office shirt again? That's the whole reason I went on a murdering rampage, is to avoid logging in wearing a white office shirt under a tan vest.

[That Lamer 0]

I'm sad to see it go, but only because I prefer it over the survivor skin. I hope selectable skins finds its way into a patch soon.

Skins tied to humanity though can fuck right off. :)

[masacrualex 6]

i love the fuck that we'll find skins throughout the world

[survivalist 19]

I'm going to make a lampshade out of yours.

[Kriegson 1]

The skin didn't really have much relevance before imo. You can be attacked by "survivors" as often as bandits, and most people don't really discriminate at 100+ meters.

This may give clans an easier way to quickly identify though checks will still be needed. But basically anything other than your skin is KoS.

[Rec0n412 9]

If he is taking out the bandit skins, then he may as well remove the humanity meter. Unless he finds a new purpose for it, then it is a pointless addition.

I'm actually somewhat sad to see the bandit skins go, as survival itself is easy except for the other players. Without even a basic way of knowing someone's reputation, i have no reason to interact with other players beyond shooting them.

[karlito 3]

What i wonder is if the new skins you aquire, if they stick with you after death.

[drewmaw 56]

If he is taking out the bandit skins' date=' then he may as well remove the humanity meter. Unless he finds a new purpose for it, then it is a pointless addition.

I'm actually somewhat sad to see the bandit skins go, as survival itself is easy except for the other players. Without even a basic way of knowing someone's reputation, i have no reason to interact with other players beyond shooting them.

[/quote']

You're character will grow horns or a halo, depending on whether you're evil or good. It's like that one game....

[karlito 3]

If he is taking out the bandit skins' date=' then he may as well remove the humanity meter. Unless he finds a new purpose for it, then it is a pointless addition.

I'm actually somewhat sad to see the bandit skins go, as survival itself is easy except for the other players. Without even a basic way of knowing someone's reputation, i have no reason to interact with other players beyond shooting them.

[/quote']

You're character will grow horns or a halo, depending on whether you're evil or good. It's like that one game....

Fable?

[Rec0n412 9]

You're character will grow horns or a halo' date=' depending on whether you're evil or good. It's like that one game....

[/quote']

Screw the horns, I want my eyes to turn black, and my skin to turn pale and blood smeared :P

[reuter 120]

tl;dr

OP just stated, that lonewulf banditry will become even easier.

[Mutonizer 78]

Long read but overall I think your argument is flawed because these guys were obviously communicating via non direct chat means and/or knew each others beforehand.

For players not in pre-made, once the sidechat/globalchat is gone and directchat 100% stable, it'll be nearly impossible to communicate because people will shoot at first sight most of the time, not even trying to get into range to even communicate by voice/chat. It's also the case because direct com doesn't work all the time.

Most people grouping for some time right now that are not using pre-made teamspeak/mumble/etc are spamming sidechat none stop, which totally removes the immersion of the mod as well.

I'm sorry but people using sidechat/teamspeak and any external tools (maps, etc) are NOT having a clue about how this mod is played if you don't use these and I don't think they should be taken as reference.

I mean, when you don't know chernarus, only use direct comm, don't know anyone beforehand, I can assure you that this mod will kick you in the balls NON STOP for everything you do. I have played a LOT of hours in the past two weeks and in total, I've spent about an hour top with various people I met, been killed for no reason whatsoever, without any warning, more time than not, and also ran from people more time than not. I however have a decent survival time overall but some situations are just deathtraps when alone :)

I'm not sure how to counter this however. I mean, normally (realistically) you'd find people at least trying to talk to each other or even running from each other but maybe ARMA2/DAYZ attract more people whose main goal is to just kill other people and fuck them up in all manners or ways, and not survive the zombie apocalypse.

I'm glad rocket decided to remove the bandit skin though, that was silly :)

[Rec0n412 9]

tl;dr

OP just stated' date=' that lonewulf banditry will become even easier.

[/quote']

Which is the issue with a free-form game like this. Even more structured games like face of mankind still have issues with people just turning cities and the like into full on fire-fights.

[ErwinRumble 33]

But I like the bandit camo!

[Rec0n412 9]

But I like the bandit camo!

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE BANDIT CAMO!!!

[thegarcia 12]

As I kept thinking about it, removing the skins isn't a good idea.. IRL you would recognize a bandit because they would most likely be armed to the teeth or wearing certain clothes that give them away.

For example season 2 of Walking Dead, that group of guys who came into the town asking for where the farm was were all guys, all had guns, all acted suspicious therefore Rick was able to read them and already be alerted to them.

If we don't have any way of doing such in this then that kind've goes out the window a bit. I can see the point of trusting more and everything all equal and such. But I say make the bandit status only happen when they reach like 4 or 5 survivor kills and not just 2. That way the people who protect themselves don't go bandit and the people that just want to kill others will remain a bandit where every survivor will shoot them in the face.

[That Lamer 0]

As I kept thinking about it' date=' removing the skins isn't a good idea.. IRL you would recognize a bandit because they would most likely be armed to the teeth or wearing certain clothes that give them away.

[/quote']

Ah yes, the well known fact that all criminals dress the part.

Seen here: the common serial killer.

[bobda 11]

For example season 2 of Walking Dead' date=' that group of guys who came into the town asking for where the farm was were all guys, all had guns, all acted suspicious

[/quote']

The exact same could be said for Rick's group. 3 males, fully armed, very vague when talking with them.

Being armed to the teeth doesn't mean your a cold blooded killer, neither does the clothes you wear.

[dsi24 227]

The only people who thought bandit skins were a good idea were brown nosers and carebears. And maybe a few of the smarter PvPers who wanted to exploit loopholes in game logic/player psychology.

[dromagewok@hotmail.com 164]

As I kept thinking about it' date=' removing the skins isn't a good idea.. IRL you would recognize a bandit because they would most likely be armed to the teeth or wearing certain clothes that give them away.

For example season 2 of Walking Dead, that group of guys who came into the town asking for where the farm was were all guys, all had guns, all acted suspicious therefore Rick was able to read them and already be alerted to them.

If we don't have any way of doing such in this then that kind've goes out the window a bit. I can see the point of trusting more and everything all equal and such. But I say make the bandit status only happen when they reach like 4 or 5 survivor kills and not just 2. That way the people who protect themselves don't go bandit and the people that just want to kill others will remain a bandit where every survivor will shoot them in the face.

[/quote']

They talked for awhile.

He wanted to part ways and not kill anyone.

What you're talking about is ID on sight so it makes you feel better inside about killing someone.

Sorry bro, now you actually have to give people a benefit of the doubt.

[Otleaz 3]

That is a great story, but you forgot that you had just spawned so it didn't matter if you died. If it were me, I would just attempt to kill them all if they had something I wanted, or walk in the opposite direction. Not like I would lose anything if they killed me.