Talent Tree

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

Essentially, this idea is to give long term rewards to long term players of the game. A skill system or talent system has been talked about at length, and I wanted to throw out an idea that I've been playing out.

Basically, talents would work to increase the players experience passively and in a way that is not obtrusively unfair. They would basically reflect on a players skill by smoothing his experience in a variety of ways and making his life in Chernarus more comfortable.

The talents would also be incredibly numerous and each point would grant a very small increment. It's important that it doesn't feel like a CoD progression, but more of a long term experience.

For instance:

Passives:

Cooking: Grants 5% (10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50) increase to blood gained from consuming cooked meat.

Butchery: Grants a 5% (10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50) increase chance to receive an extra two portions of meat from a carcass.

Cool Headed: Grants a 5% (10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50) speed increase to the settling of a weapon after movement.

Skills:

Covered Fire: When fifteen points have been placed in Covered Fire, a player is able to build a covered fire that is less visible at night time.

Quenched Thirst: When fifteen points have been placed in Quenched Thirst, a player is able to satisfy his thirst twice before a Water Bottle is emptied.

It's important to note that points would be earned slowly - perhaps reward a point for every two consecutive hours of survival after the fourth hour of consecutive survival (the average life span). This would really reward play styles in the spirit of the game and really raise the tension on survivors. It might even ease off the killing spree on the coast and cities.

It's important to note that you don't gain points for player killing, you gain them for survival actions. Similarly, not a single skill is inherently PvP advantaged. In fact, I'd prefer no skills to actively increase PvP viability. This is a survival game, you shouldn't ever have to not do something, but you might be able to do it less, or provide better for your friends.

Also, I hate the WoWness of this idea, but I think that this is the one game where small increase in ability would be incredibly valuable, but not make the players life too easy. For instance, a player should really gain only one point for every four hours of play. At the same time, consecutive survival should also be rewarded, but I'm not sure how that would be worked just yet.

Anyway, I'll probably read this again in the morning and revise it.

[mooncabbage 2]

No, purely because I dislike any kind of skills system. I prefer to think of it as an avatar, rather than a character. It's a means for me to interact with the world, rather than a character I play. As rocket has said in the recent interviews, it's MY skill with the guns that counts, not some BS stat that determines how much my gun wobbles or whatever. And I think that's how it should stay. Players get better at the game, and that's progress enough for me.

[SteamTrout 18]

What made S.T.A.L.K.E.R. a good RPG experience was that it's your skills as a player which improved, not arbitrary stats. What makes this a good RPG experience is exactly the same.

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

No' date=' purely because I dislike any kind of skills system. I prefer to think of it as an avatar, rather than a character. It's a means for me to interact with the world, rather than a character I play. As rocket has said in the recent interviews, it's MY skill with the guns that counts, not some BS stat that determines how much my gun wobbles or whatever. And I think that's how it should stay. Players get better at the game, and that's progress enough for me.

[/quote']

I too am not really a fan of this type of stuff as it interferes with the game too much. I'm trying to work out how this type of thing could be done without ruining this game (as a lot of people are wanting some kind of long term incentive or progression to keep them hooked). The best I've got is trying to represent an increase in fitness, an increase in butchery skill, etc, that you logically learn if you're doing it over and over, but isn't represented in game.

IE. the first time I butcher a cow, I'm going to do it badly and inefficiently. If you've butchered a cow many times before, you're going to complete the task more efficiently. At the moment, that's not differentiated by the game. A complete freshman will butcher with the same efficiency of someone who should know better (because I've butchered something like fifty animals).

I hope I've kind of demonstrated how I'm thinking about this.

[mooncabbage 2]

I just don't think it's necessary to have this kind of experience system in. Does it reset if you die?

Also you're not butchering the cow for prime cuts, you're butchering it for meat. Hackjob or no, you're going to have the same amount of meat available. Infact one cow would provide more meat than any one person could store and eat.

I think experience in this game comes in the form of learning how it works, like where the best gear is, how to move without getting shot etc. I don't see any benefit in adding probably the worst part of MMOs and RPGs, which is the skill system. The only reason those games have them is because they need them.

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

I just don't think it's necessary to have this kind of experience system in. Does it reset if you die?

Also you're not butchering the cow for prime cuts' date=' you're butchering it for meat. Hackjob or no, you're going to have the same amount of meat available. Infact one cow would provide more meat than any one person could store and eat.

I think experience in this game comes in the form of learning how it works, like where the best gear is, how to move without getting shot etc. I don't see any benefit in adding probably the worst part of MMOs and RPGs, which is the skill system. The only reason those games have them is because they need them.

[/quote']

Like I said, this is really an exercise in how something like this could even work. I'm thinktanking it, because I myself don't really like the sound of it.

For the sake of the concept, if it reset on death, it would be more appropriate, but not fulfill the long term play problem.

If it didn't reset on death, it would give long time survivors a bonus, but would be inconsistent with gear treatment (ie. you lose it).

It really is a tough question to answer, because all the conventional attractions and incentives seem contrived in the face of DayZ.

I would love a different skin to represent my ability, but that would limit me.

I would love to show my skill by a list of achievements, but that would break the immersion and the motives for playing.

At the moment I'm thinking that any long term incentive to play has to be player built within the game. Meta shit isn't going to work here.

Similarly, the meat cuts thing would be representative of me thinking the stomach was a big bit of meat, taking the stomach, and then realising I can't eat it etc, but that's semantics.

[proxzor 3]

Lmao no thats just stupid, I dont see it fit anywhere in this game, Dont try to treat this game as a general MMORPG because this is totally different.

[Pirate (DayZ) 0]

People would just log in and hide in a bush all day to gain those talent points.

[fapoo 2]

This was my input from the skill system thread. Instead of points it's about time.

"I think a skill system for this game would be so good and would add for a much deeper gameplay experience.

I think it should work something like this. Similar to EVE online's skill system tied in to the book idea that I share with the OP.

-So I'm a survivor

- I find a book (e.g Bear Grylls Noob Guide To Gutting)

(Now I can choose to use/learn the book (usable once) or trade etc...)

-I choose to learn

-Book does not dissappear and I am informed by HUD or seperate "skills screen" that I am learning said skill and it will take me X amount of time (e.g. 1 hour)

-1 hour later I have learned the skill, book disappears and now I can gut wild animals for red meat)

Now if I meet another survivor I can choose to teach him my skill, either trade for items, one of their skills or just gift it.

But now for that stranger to learn it from me they must stay within X amount of metres (100m?) in my proximity for X amount of hours.

-If they go outside of that proximity progress stops, if they come back in, it resumes. If one of the player dies the trade is destroyed.

-After the skills are traded players can choose to kill each other, band up together further, or just simply part ways."

Link to full post: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3220&pid=29858#pid29858

[harryzhe 28]

this is the first example of skillset representation for dayz ive actually agreed with. It's awesome that you've stuck purely to the abstracted activities in the game.

Nay-sayers, i hear you, but look at it this way.

You build a fire in dayz. You get meat off a cow. You set up structures. you repair things, you give people blood transfusions.

What do you actually DO when these things happen?

You just wait for them to be finished. So there's no way to do it any better or worse through practise.

Which brings me to this point : it shouldn't be abstracted to EXP you can allot to whatever you like. Repetition of tasks is what should make you better at them.

That way even if you aren't the best at something, within your group, you could organise for one specific guy to do the butchering and cooking, one guy to do the medical treatment, one guy to do repairs to vehicles - that way the team all benefits from someone who has more "experience" at it and can do it more efficiently, rather than having 5 guys of equal skill but all equally crap at it.

Naturally, any kind of "skill system" should not even think about touching actual combat or navigation or movement skills. Those things are represented with enough depth that you yourself get better at them through practise without having to represent it in another way.

[mooncabbage 2]

I can see that it might be nice to have some very small benefit to surviving for longer periods of time. I'm not sure that a skill tree or experience is the right approach, but I think the kernel of the idea you want to build on is the idea of survivor benefits. Make people want to stay alive, beyond just losing all their gear.

I don't think a skill system necessarily fits, it needs to be more organic. It could be something visual, like various survivor skins, or various stages of beard length, but I think it needs to have some kind of gameplay component, without upsetting the core game.

People would just log in and hide in a bush all day to gain those talent points.

Although that's potentially a problem, realistically that's not as easy in this game as it might be in others. You could die of thirst or starvation, or someone might just come along and shoot you while you're idling. Also I suspect idlers would be kicked off just about any server, especially with server pops as high as they currently are.