If you are 'good' at something... professions & teamwork

[adamtheheretic 106]

Well think of this, if you remove a weapon drop from a church, WHAT will spawn in it's place now? nothing? something else but 'with the same chance' ... well if it's the same chance from a list of items, then technically the item that spawns in the guns place is now spawning more often than it was before, simply because the gun doesn't spawn anymore ;)

Feel free to stick to your point btw. some things do it for somebody and other things don't, i don't like beans irl f/e and nothing can change that, no matter how good they are prepaired and i enjoy the meal due to it, i still don't like them :P ... heck i even dislike pepsi so much that i ask my friends to exchange them for cokes in the game :) ... tnx though for atleast wanting to give the idea a try, and liking it more than the rest of the crud that is suggested...

"WHAT will spawn in it's place now? nothing?"

Yes. Nothing will spawn where that weapon used to spawn, that was my point...

I can't remember what else you've suggested so I guess this would be the best one, memorable atleast.

[Claytonaj 12]

Apologies if I seemed to dismiss your idea. I did read the OP, and I understand what you're trying to achieve. I am all for reducing the toolbelt space, as you suggest, but the packs are just too much of a contrivance for me. IMO it would be better and more believable/authentic/realistic to simply allow the stacking of some items. This way, if you play as a group you might well have a designated 'medic' or 'mechanic' (i.e. someone who's job it is to hold certain kinds of stackable items) to take advantage of economies of scale, and to improve organisation. For example, say you were in a group of 5, instead of everyone carrying 2 bandages (stacked to take up one slot in each pack), one player is elected 'medic' and carries 10 bandages in 2 stacks of 5, freeing up everyone else to carry other things. The 'medic' would then become better/quicker at administering aid with practice, and their playstyle would adapt to suit the role; or they would volunteer to be the medic if they felt they already had an aptitude or the right temperament. This makes teamwork/role-taking obviously worthwhile. It would not require a specialist medpack, but would achieve the same result. (I keep using the example of medic, but I'm imagining the same could be done with knives or certain tools, or needles etc., wherever it is deemed appropriate.)

I hope this is little more constructive (in suggesting an alternative) than merely critical :)

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

How would this 'electing' work though? how would a solo player benefit from this? can i be 'unelected'? and it feel fairly one dimensional, be a medic or be an engineer or be w/e, or could i be all? or a minimum amount? can i change? and how does it make sense that one person can have a stack of 5 while the norm is a stack of 2? If the power of a 'title' is that big, that it changes size at the spot, perhaps i should call myself *censored* (not that i need it, but 'you know' bit of humor never hurts)

The pack system does the same basically, but depends on what you find, which seems fairly within the bounds of the game. While 'electing' or 'choosing' to be one or the other and receive a benefit seems a weird way to go about this (perhaps even outside of the bounds of this particular game). With the packs you can choose yourself what suits you and with 4 spots and 12packs (currently) you can be what suits you (given you come across a pack), you can change at anytime you have another pack available. If you meet up you can rearrange packs between players to assign roles, if players need to goto bed you can just rearrange again to suit the group size you are left with. Every pack you find untill you have 4 improves your situation, even doubles and any pack there after removes double or increases specialization.

And the whole system of packs doesn't negate adding a 'learning by doing' system which may further certain 'professions/classes' within the game. :)

[Claytonaj 12]

By 'elect' I just mean that the players would decide amongst themselves who's going to hold on to the medic gear for that play session (or that week, or indefinitely), and take on the responsibility that brings with it (being the person with all the bandages! Having to patch others up). There's nothing to stop any of the players holding full item stacks (lone players do not miss out at all), but chances are they don't have that many bandages, only 1 or 2, which would still take up a whole slot, so it would make sense to collectivise the bandages in one person's pack, to save space, especially if slots were reduced in number.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Claytonaj

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

First time i read about quivers for crossbows, was in this thread: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33969-quiver-for-crossbow-bolts/

I personally think these bolts should stack in amounts of 5, which makes the suggested quiver a good candidate for a beltpack item:

* Crossbow Quiver: takes up 1 slot, gives 3 slots: holding 3x 5 bolts (possibly other items?)

[RapturJesus 90]

Honestly, I think you took the "if you're good at something in real life" thing the wrong way... so that if you can "read the sky" in real life, you can in game... The game naturally gives you the ability to do many things you may not be able to do, such as gut animals, make fires, etc. But things like orienteering you must do yourself unless you find a compass and map.

I'm happy for this to be experimented with, especially if it causes more team play.

Wait... You can't make a fire in real life? I can understand gutting an animal as most people live in a city and not in the country but... A FIRE?! Its not hard!

[Texan (DayZ) 4]

i wouldn't like the tool-belt reducement, but good job on the items

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

i wouldn't like the tool-belt reducement

that's the general idea ;)

[Guest]

Cool idea! :thumbsup:

But what about the loners?!

[Ancient (DayZ) 10]

The only real way to accomplish this idea is to introduce hard-coded character classes which you must choose from. Then implement features or items which are only available or useable by specific classes.

Once you implement this, you have an instant in-game economy.

The problem(s) is(are): which classes do you make, what functionalities do you give them, what specific items do you make for them, and how do you balance the trade economy? Specifically in this game, how do you implement trade, when the person you're trading with can just shoot you and take what he wants? Should you even implement a "safe" trading system? That would be pretty unrealistic. Maybe just bring a bunch of buddies with you incase shit goes downhill (I like that one better).

You get the idea. Shit gets big fast.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Ancient

[adamtheheretic 106]

Wait... You can't make a fire in real life? I can understand gutting an animal as most people live in a city and not in the country but... A FIRE?! Its not hard!

Is that really the nitpicking you're going to do? Well, yes I can make a fire in real life but nowhere near as fast or professional as the in game character... and it was just an example, as I said;

"The game naturally gives you the ability to do many things you may not be able to do"

I'm not saying that it's a rare thing but some people can skin animals and some can build fires, some can't do either of those... Just like some people can create traps especially out of just objects found in the wilderness whilst others couldn't unreel the barbed wire... The point was that the game assumes you can do pretty much everything but it's up to you to actually find out how.

The only real way to accomplish this idea is to introduce hard-coded character classes which you must choose from. Then implement features or items which are only available or useable by specific classes.

Once you implement this, you have an instant in-game economy.

The problem(s) is(are): which classes do you make, what functionalities do you give them, what specific items do you make for them, and how do you balance the trade economy? Specifically in this game, how do you implement trade, when the person you're trading with can just shoot you and take what he wants? Should you even implement a "safe" trading system? That would be pretty unrealistic. Maybe just bring a bunch of buddies with you incase shit goes downhill (I like that one better).

You get the idea. Shit gets big fast.

The problem is character classes. Professions are changed on the fly by the equipment you have. Like at the current moment if I have a toolbox, I'm the engineer. Range Finders? Spotter... If I have a sniper too... Well, sniper obviously. Hunting knife, Hatchet and Matches and you're the chef. I think a hard coded class system is silly for this game. I think we should just cut down on the tools lots so you have to choose more carefully which tools you take and become an actual asset for your group and if you're a loner then you could just horde tools at a home base or in your backpack (they all only take up one slot, right?) so it wouldn't be too bad.

I've also read up on a decent idea that things like the watch don't take up any space as it just goes on your wrist... I can't think of anything similar to this for other tools but maybe if a radio is implemented it'd be in your tools section until you got a combat suit? then it would be attached to the breast padding...

Edited July 16, 2012 by FishIsTwonk

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

@Ancient, perhaps you need to read the OP again, because realy, profession/classes or w/e are realy NOT needed for this to work ... 4 spots means you have to choose real carefully what you take, add these bags to have people rejoyce some extra room and be done with it ...

@Twonk & PlatinaGamer: i'm not sure i like adding things to your backpack, well unless you can only insta use them when they are on your toolbelt, but then it would still defeat the purpose of cutting down inventory space. As far as loners go, they go with what they find like everybody else ... and this will depend on your playstyle a bit, being a hunter or scavenger: which would make the choice for having Hatchedpack, Knifeholster, Canteenbuckle or having other things in their place and just scavenge... Which leaves them one slot for something else... And i set up all the packs to give atleast one extra space for another item (some are restricted to the kind of pack though), while i gave some examples for these items i also trust the dev's to go through all the tools and decide what makes sense to store ... So, the hatched pack has another slot, the knifeholster has and the buckle aswell, storing say: map, matches, compas. That whole set basically is the most important for solo players, so want to fix something: add the toolbox. If gunmaintenance is introduced you may want to get that pack, or store some of it in the toolbox, or just switch out guns often... But maybe 4 slots is just cutting it to deep, and maybe 5 slots is more forgiving for lone wolfs, still though lonewolfs tend to need a very specific limited set only, which i just gave the setup for ;) ...

One thing i do hope from this though, is that people will be less likely to kill on sight, as the limited options for each player somewhat force them to cooperate IF they want to do more things. You can still change though, and figure out the best setup for the way you like to play (as a lone wolf even). Like if you don't depend on Hunting for the 800HP, well that then frees up a lot of space. Seeing you are a scavenger you will likely want to play stealthy, so you go for the shovelpack (so you can hide bodies), you will want to heal yourself (so you go for a med pack), depending on whether you sneak or shoot you may want an ammo pack, and esp when you haven't found a big backpack yet, you will want a Beltpack for some extra space for food & drinks. Or maybe the tools so you can take down blocked off buildings... I dunno how many lone wolf styles there are tbh. so i would say, go through the list and see for yourself how you would deck yourself out, and if you come to the conclusion that you can't take everything you want, but atleast everything you likely need, then i set the system up right ;) ... and please let me know what you choose :)

Edited July 16, 2012 by L0GIN

[Deviant (DayZ) 43]

Interesting, however it would be nicer if skills were something not found, as in "packs".

Like, being able to read stars, maps, etc.

Having a "class" would be interesting to look into, but perhaps later down the line in development.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

This has nothing to do with finding skills, the packs are merely to hold the tools that give you the 'skill' to do w/e it is you do, was i so unclear in my OP ?! and i do not even want Classes, whom are you responding too ? realy confusing post tbh.

Edited July 17, 2012 by L0GIN

[sapien82 4]

You can have your specialist packs , and people can take on that specific play role for their squad ! However you can also have a "jack of all trades " pack which allows you to select an Item from each , you wont be able to be specialist in any of the individual styles but you can take from each the ones you prefer a sacrafice that you make as a lone wolf !

Also I think that people should have to learn the specific skillset , so finding instruction manuals on vehicle maintenance or basic first aid discipline, gun maintenance and protocol.

These manuals can be found in garages , libraries , military outposts. Not so much an XP ugrade but once you have a manual you can start to learn its contents through practice and once you have used it so often you become better and better at maintaining or repairing or performing certain tasks until you reach 100% as in you start a novice and then become more proficient through time.

of course certain manuals and booklets are common and rare depending on the level of the loot that you working with.

Not everyone knows how to do a blood tranfusion so novice doing it will likely mess it up and maybe lose some blood , a more experience player will be able to do it well and give +5000 blood back , and an expert (doctor) will be able to do it perfectly.

Gun maintenance , a novice will repair a gun and likely mess it up and so it will jam or backfire or something similar , an expert man at arms will be able to repair it perfectly and it will never jam and will likely perform without a hitch. Guns should never start off at 100% as if brand new from the factory guns always require maintenance.

Same with camping and making fires and gutting animals or fishing or water purification, these are all learned skills and no one should be able to do them perfectly first time round. These are all elements which should be included in the stand alone game , without making it an XP grind , the incentive of the game should be survival and as rocket said if a player wishes to find out about the zombies they can venture around looking for clues and information.

I also think that communicating over the direct channel should be limited over larger distances, so already you can hear people communicating over direct if your close up , but if you want to communicate with your squad over direct and your not on ts you should be able to repair communication devices like radios and such! - this is just a thought. It would really add to the game more than using TS/ventrillo/skyp because using external chat is in reality taking away from the survival aspect.

Just my thoughts

Also if your making it stand alone I'd love to have a map editor that is user friendly , I'd love to recreate my home town and have it full of zombies !

[sapien82 4]

Interesting, however it would be nicer if skills were something not found, as in "packs".

Like, being able to read stars, maps, etc.

Having a "class" would be interesting to look into, but perhaps later down the line in development.

Thing is though Most people already know how to read topographical maps and use stars to map , so it would be kind of pointless to have a skill for that if we can just do it anyway without actually finding the manual ! I see your point , but if you pick up a map most people can use them without even having looked at a map for any length of time !

[The Alphabeat. 16]

>The repair guy

You mean the engineer?

[sapien82 4]

>The repair guy

You mean the engineer?

Not all people are qualified engineers , most are just people who know how to repair things ! there is a difference !

[slonlo 43]

Not all people are qualified engineers , most are just people who know how to repair things ! there is a difference !

He was using 'engineer' in it's military definition.

engineer (ˌɛndʒɪˈnɪə) — n 3. a mechanic; person who repairs or services machines

6. Informal name: sapper a member of the armed forces, esp the army, trained in engineering and construction work

So a "repair guy" in the group is in fact the engineer in the group. Just like the "bandage guy" is the medic. The "helicopter flying guy" is the pilot, et cetera

[sapien82 4]

Since Day Z specifically deals with civilians , then it would be a normal engineer without military background !

that is an example from the dictionary i.e. the sapper !

Mostly civil engineers !

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Well engineering is a brought title to use for various disciplines, and seeing it's realy upto the player to decide what role he plays, i just called that particular setup a 'repair guy' setup. But if you want to call yourself an engineer then please do so!

[Mister Motivational 24]

It's a well thought out idea, I get the feeling it needs some tweaking which would rely on other changes in the game but I do support this.

*edit* After a bit of thought, I'd stuff anything I wanted into whatever bag I could find. Perhaps allow any items to be put into these packs but they require double the space and perhaps more time retrieving or using them.

In other words, certain items fit better into certain types of packs than others.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Mister Motivational

[slonlo 43]

Since Day Z specifically deals with civilians , then it would be a normal engineer without military background !

that is an example from the dictionary i.e. the sapper !

Mostly civil engineers !

I wasn't naming a title from a video game. I was clarifying what the gentleman meant when he said "engineer." He didn't need to correct the other gentleman, however, as he was just being ... ungentlemanly. Your correction, however was unnecessary because you knew exactly what he meant. I only sought to point out that the term "engineer" is not specifically limited to someone who majored in mechanical/civil/electrical/et cetera engineering. A "repair guy" is an engineer by one definition. A "bandage guy" is a... you get the idea. Space. Exclamation point.

Edited August 8, 2012 by slonlo

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

After a bit of thought, I'd stuff anything I wanted into whatever bag I could find. Perhaps allow any items to be put into these packs but they require double the space and perhaps more time retrieving or using them.

In other words, certain items fit better into certain types of packs than others.

I had this raised b4, and in part i can see the point, on the other hand and at first: this is still a game; second, there are a lot of pouches/bags suggested that wouldn't be big enough to hold just anything. f/e if you google for pictures of ammo-belt-pouches you will notice that these are generally big enough to hold say 4 magazines, sure you could put a bandage in there or anything small, but no drinks or cans. Then there are specialized pouches (like the knife holster f/e) that can't realy hold anything else but the specialized tool, they are just not formed to hold anything else...

The only thing i can think off to make it more 'realistic' would be to put more restrictions on the inventory system. And that would be to work with slots, but to give each slot a certain volume as well (so not the whole pouch volume, but each individual slot to have a max.volume - and in some very specific cases to be able to combine the volumes). So taking that ammo-pouch again, it could have 4 slots where each slot has the volume of a magazine, seeing these pouches usually actually have these pockets for the magazines, you would not be able to combine the volume of these slots to fit something big in there. But anything smaller than a magazine would fit, say bandages, lighters, matchbox ... but it be a fairly complicated inventory system to make though...

So the biggest 'issues' i think, come from the medicalpouch and the toolpouch (and some other 'bigger' single volume pouches), as people reason, well i could fit X in there in real life as well. But if you look at a medicalpouch, and toolpouches aswell, they 'again' tend to come with various 'slots' and straps etc. for various tools, that each have a clear limit on the volume they can hold. So yeah, if the above more restricted way of dealing with volume/slots would work, then that be great...

[The OCD 10]

I'm not a big fan of the pouch idea. It's really good for promoting co-op play, but it is a negative aspect in every category for solo play. You are extremely limited in what you can do by yourself, and a lot of people prefer the "lone-wolf" style play. This would completely alienate that self-sufficiency that some people strive on.