If you are 'good' at something... professions & teamwork

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

* edited to include more packs that came up through brainstorming in this thread, currently 13 packs!

Having been watching vids tonight, Rocket mentioned alot that 'if you are good at something you should be good at it in game, which obviously ties in with professions in dayZ, this would obviously stimulate teamwork. Another thing that was mentioned a lot was giving players 'more' choices, which can be done two ways, either you add in more items, or you give people less space to hold things.

While i know the idea that follows is not entirely new, people have likely suggested medical pouches of sorts, this is more extensive, and it will likely do all the things wanted for DayZ. WITHOUT ACTUALLY ADDING CLASSES OR PROFESSIONS! as players would find these pack in game (empty) and would also have to find the tools that go in them, to have the tools do what they already do ingame (some tools were added mixed in this suggestion to do other new things though). And with limited space (4 toolbelt slots) people would have to specialize, the toolbelt packs are merely somewhat authentic beltpacks that can be found and expand on the toolbelt space a bit!

So the suggestion is to:

1. Reduce the toolbelt to 4 slots

and then to add:

2. then add the following 'items' to the game that can extend these slots by 1, 2 or even 3 more slots, for specific items:

* A medpack, taking up one slot but adding 4 to hold ANY medical supplies.

* A toolpack, taking up one slot, but adding 2 to hold any tools (wrench, pliers, hammer, screwdriver etc? ... )

* An Ammopack, taking up one slot, but adding 3 to hold ANY ammo.

* A knivepack, taking up one slot, but adding 2, to hold (a) knive(s), a sharpening stone, or any firestarter item(s), or compas.

* A mappack, taking up one slot, but adding 2, to hold: maps, compas, gps, watch, notebook, pen

* A Canteen buckle, taking up one slot, but adding 2, to hold: canteen(s), or any other small item (compas, firestarter, clip, bandage, etc)

* A Hatched pack, taking up one slot, but adding 2 to hold: hatched(s), or any other small item.

* A sowing kit, taking up one slot, but adding 3 to hold: commen needle, thread(s) (to repair bags & clothing), medical needle, medical threads (can also be put in medicalpack, can stop bleeding by stitching).

* Holster: using 1 slot, giving ? to slot: any pistol, and 1 or 2 clips, or some gun cleaning equipment. So you can stach away your sidearm in favor of say a flashlight or any other tools that need equipping to use them.

* Gun Cleaning pack: uses one slot, gives 3 slots. For items: mini screwdriver, brush (can be toothbrush), gun oil, spare parts: trigger, barrel, etc.

* Beltpack: uses 1 slot, giving 3 slots for ANY inventory assigned items, basically go together with http://dayzmod.com/f...nventory-space/ <- that suggestion.

* Shovelpack: uses 1 slot, giving 2 slots: holding (a) shovel(s), a crowbar, and/or any small tool, or magazine.

shovels are introduced to utilize the 'hide corpse' feature, without a shovel a corpse can't be 'burried'

* Crossbow Quiver: takes up 1 slot, gives 3 slots: holding 3x 5 bolts (possibly other items?)

Ohw and i also think a new item should be added: CAN OPENER ! and give the hunting knife, and screwdrivers the option to use as a canopener as wel.

As one selects one of these packs, the items in it will show in the row beneath, i can open a pack and move items from and to it...

Now with a reduced space, players will have to make a lot more choices asto what items they take with them, this gives players 'more choices' while not increasing the items in the game (This can pretty much be done right away in 1.7.2.1 ). And it will also give a reason to work together, sure a lone survivor can still carry (matches, hatched, hunting knife), but then what?! a map is only usefull if you know where you are and which direction you are going, while a compas is only usefull if you know where it's leading you. It becomes easier if you assign on person to be a guide, while the other is the hunter. To make matter worse i think some items need to be split up or assigned to the toolbelt:

- current toolkit needs to be split up in various tools, each doing one particular thing, the kit can stay in to hold these items. Currently that would mean the Wrench and Pliers are added to repair and deal with barbedwire.

- The water canteen needs to be added to the toolbelt, instead of in one's backpack, this is a valuable tool to have as it is refillable, so having it should weigh more heavy on your inventory.

These are minor things to change/add, but they will make the reduced space on the toolbelt even more critical. And these changes are also why i picked 4 slots, as that could hold: hatched, matches, huntingknife, canteen; which are all the items needed to atleast still be able to survive untill part 2 is implemented...

Now the second stage needs more work to implement, but it will increase the options a tad for 'long wolf' players (given they find these packs), but at the same time it will increase the feel of people taking on a role. And with just 4 places and 12 packs, there is still no way you will be able to use everything, thus giving incentive to play together, and with clear descriptions of the various packs, players can adopt a role that suits them and when finding a pack that supports this role be rewarded for playing this role:

- the repair guy: toolpack, sowing pack (commen needle and threads), gun cleaning pack

- the medic: medpack, sowing pack (medical needle and threads)

- the hunter: hatchedpack, knifepack

- the hiker: Map pack, canteen buckle

- the ammo carrier: 4x ammopacks, holster

*!* DO NOTE, you do NOT start with these packs, there is no choice for a 'profession' or 'class' that gives these items, you find them or not, and if so they make the 'role' you choose a tad easier.*!*

New features (like the option to build things) could have more tools added to the game, which now integrate with the various packs and put more presure on inventory space, and thus the need to specialize. The addition of shockpeddals for the medic could do the same.

Perhaps another creative person can come up with another pack that may be usefull, or items?

And all this doesn't need +1 to repairskills, and it also gives enough incentive to play together, while lone wolfs and bandit snipers, do not have to fear stage 1. They can still survive with the 4 most needed tools, and all they need to know is how to walk back to that hill overseeing their favorite location.

Edited July 17, 2012 by L0GIN

[SGTFledge 43]

I like this idea, I really do.

I already like the inventory and don't really have any problems with it, except for bugs, but this would add a whole new dimension, in a sense, to it. Of course, imagine the PvP implications.

Even if you can't identify by looking at a player model that they have the medkit, one shot from a hidden sniper takes down a group's capability to whether an extended combat situation. If the ammo carrier goes down, and his body can't be retrieved, fire discipline would become a priority, same thing for each man with the specific packs he's been assigned. Adds another facet that extends the tension of a situation.

I mean, it'd go from feeling wary when your pal goes down to feeling like you've just been hung out to dry when your pal, who took the role of medic, went down.

[urspider2018@gmail.com 109]

Definitely a cool idea, hopefully there won't be anyone complaining bout how they can't be a medic/mechanic/hunter/marksman/woodsman anymore.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Ok i just got to the part where Rocket talks about 'maintaining' equipment and stuff you have, which in turn led me to another 'pack' that could be introduced:

- Gun Cleaning pack: uses one slot, gives 3 slots. For items: mini screwdriver, brush (can be toothbrush), gun oil, spare parts: trigger, barrel, etc.

- Ohw and i also think a new item should be added: CAN OPENER ! and give the hunting knife, and screwdrivers the option to use as a canopener as wel.

- And while we are at it, what about a 'sharpening stone' to sharpen one's knife.

Edited July 12, 2012 by L0GIN

[adamtheheretic 106]

Honestly, I think you took the "if you're good at something in real life" thing the wrong way... so that if you can "read the sky" in real life, you can in game... The game naturally gives you the ability to do many things you may not be able to do, such as gut animals, make fires, etc. But things like orienteering you must do yourself unless you find a compass and map.

I'm happy for this to be experimented with, especially if it causes more team play.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Yes i somewhat agree Twonk, but I see it this way, you have to enable and reward people somewhat for taking up a role, and if you do this by giving people a lot of tools, and these packs (as a small reward and to compensate the small toolbelt), then people will likely automatically go for the things they are interested in doing, which will likely somewhat be the things they are good at in real life (or would like to be, roleplaying that you are good at mechanics while you have 2 left hands yourself is not a bad thing to do in a game).

And this system does that, only sad part sofar, i like being a support player and i like survival alot, so i will want the medpack, the knifepack and the hatched pack, which kind of leaves me with no choice but to take the canteenbuckle. Which will likely mean that i will have to memorize the map and read the stars :P and i won't be able to fix anything or remove barriers... ARGH!!! see what i mean, reduce the amount of space and people will have to make real choices, you can't do it all (just like in real life), so you will have to cooperate. and even with the packs added there will be things you can't do, while specializing will give you more of the same which is good for teamplay, a more general setup will still make you long for other people, unless you are a bandit ofcourse, in which case the choice is for survival and some extra ammo... as you are unlikely to move much other then your main hunting grounds...

Edited July 12, 2012 by L0GIN

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

I like the idea. Reducing the size of the tool-belt would make people choose wisely what they're carrying, making it necessary to have other people in your group to carry the other important gear that you don't have the space to keep.

Very cool stuff bro, let's hope someone important see this. :cool:

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

@Fenrig, that is why i called the thread the way i did, hoping to spur some 'whats this, lets check it out' ... but it be even nicer if more people would voice their opinion on good ideas. If i see a crap idea it gets almost instantly [hot] from people calling it a bad idea. But good ideas seem to hardly get any discussion going, meaning they drop into the dark corners of the forum within hours :(

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

In a flash of commen sense i noticed i totally forgot about a certain 'pack' that should be added to this system:

- Holster: using 1 slot, giving ? to slot: any pistol, and 1 or 2 clips. So you can stach away your sidearm in favor of say a flashlight.

Still hoping other people come up with other 'small pack' ideas that would make sense for this idea, reward finding them by giving a few more slots on one's toolbelt, usually in a specific sence so that the inventory system becomes the 'profession' system.

Edited July 12, 2012 by L0GIN

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Came up with 2 more 'packs' to be introduced for this 'profession' system...

* Beltpack: uses 1 slot, giving 3 slots for ANY inventory assigned items, basically go together with http://dayzmod.com/f...nventory-space/ <- that suggestion.

* Shovelpack: uses 1 slot, giving 2 slots: holding (a) shovel(s), and any small tool, or magazine.

shovels are introduced to utilize the 'hide corpse' feature, without a shovel a corpse can't be 'burried'

Come on people, surely there are more 'packs to be introduced' to put presure on that toolbelt and force 'professions/classes or w/e you want to call them' into DayZ, without the need to choose one or the other and be stuck with it. You are what you find, or share...

Any feedback on the items suggested or concerns about packs being to generous when stacked are much appreciated!

Edited July 13, 2012 by L0GIN

[Ribano 46]

i really like this idea, i also think that depending on the pack would determine weapons you cannot use, for instance only the holster pack allows the use of a sniper rifle. this would hopefully cause a lot more mid-range gun fights as the majority of your team would only be allowed to equip those guns!

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Well that would be harsh wouldn't it, say you find a medpack and all of a sudden you can't fire you sniper? that doesn't make any sense!

The whole idea behind this suggestion is to realy force a player to make choices in regards to his playstyle, at first (s)he will just use the things (s)he finds and every expansion of the inventory would be welcome, esp. if the inventory space is reduced, and you don't spawn with a backpack anymore. In that situation a beltpack would be a welcome added 3 spots. But as this player progresses and finds both more tools and more packs (s)he is going to have to decide which to keep and which to disgard, as you can't be mr/mrs Doitall ... so people that like support will hang onto support packs, people that like cars and fixing will hang onto those packs, etc... this way you are rewarded for the role you yourself think you want to play, while not being limited in your choices elsewhere (guns), and not being forced outof a gun, you aren't even forced out of becomming something else (like pre-sellected classes always do), if you have a group people can still give YOU tools to repair a car after you make some space on your toolbelt, and you can fix the car while 'they' do something else.

Freeform professions, by limited space on the toolbelt and 'toolpacks' that reward wearing them by giving more space to specific or general items. :)

[adamtheheretic 106]

Yes i somewhat agree Twonk, but I see it this way, you have to enable and reward people somewhat for taking up a role, and if you do this by giving people a lot of tools, and these packs (as a small reward and to compensate the small toolbelt), then people will likely automatically go for the things they are interested in doing, which will likely somewhat be the things they are good at in real life (or would like to be, roleplaying that you are good at mechanics while you have 2 left hands yourself is not a bad thing to do in a game).

And this system does that, only sad part sofar, i like being a support player and i like survival alot, so i will want the medpack, the knifepack and the hatched pack, which kind of leaves me with no choice but to take the canteenbuckle. Which will likely mean that i will have to memorize the map and read the stars :P and i won't be able to fix anything or remove barriers... ARGH!!! see what i mean, reduce the amount of space and people will have to make real choices, you can't do it all (just like in real life), so you will have to cooperate. and even with the packs added there will be things you can't do, while specializing will give you more of the same which is good for teamplay, a more general setup will still make you long for other people, unless you are a bandit ofcourse, in which case the choice is for survival and some extra ammo... as you are unlikely to move much other then your main hunting grounds...

Okay, so I honestly like the idea of "roles" but I don't really get the need for the packs, the idea in my thread was to just decrease the current tool slots and make people choose between tools. As I said before, fine with it being experimented with, I think this is something that would have to be added to the game to really argue against.

Edited July 13, 2012 by FishIsTwonk

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

The packs are there to reward players for picking up a role and basically have the game facilitate this role a bit. If you 'just' reduce the size you will have droves of people going 'i can't do this or that', so with these packs 'we' can easily point that the space is reduced so you can't do everything and that finding special beltpacks will facilitate any role they want to play.

Another reason for the packs is drops! see people (including yourself) keep requesting droprates to go down, there are two ways to do this, either you increase the droprate of other items and reduce it of those you want reduced (seeing the total will still need to be 100%). OR, you add more items to these droplists, i'm sure you can see that if currently there are 10 items, each item 'theoretically' has a 10% droprate. Now add a couple of items to this list and the droprate of all the items HAS to drop.

And i think these packs are cool :) , various of them are also authentic, so it isn't besides the 'reality' of DayZ to have them :)

Edited July 13, 2012 by L0GIN

[TheSwede 11]

Brew78 had a pretty good thread going simultaneously with this, and... not to toot my own horn, I like the ideas I came up with on that thread :P

http://dayzmod.com/f...ike-a-magazine/

I feel that trying to add "professions" or "classes" is an attempt to railroad this survival simulator into some sort of RPG. I'm not saying your ideas are like suggesting turning the game into World of Warcraft or Battlefield 3 or anything like that, but I believe the players should have 100% control over what they do in the game.

Edited July 13, 2012 by TheSwede

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Ehrm TheSwede, how is this suggestion not exactly doing that, giving players 100% controll ? ... the bags are just specialized items anyone can find, you don't choose to find what you find, so you use what you do find, if you find something you think is better you disgard something worse ... I see this everywhere in DayZ gameplay...

And how is the 'medpack' and the 'sowing pack' not exactly the same as your 'buttpack', with the only difference that you have one on you automatically, while mine has to be found first?

You may also want to read the thread i linked at the 'beltpack' option, if you haven't already, seeing we both do seem to agree on one thing it be good for the game to reduce space.

[adamtheheretic 106]

The packs are there to reward players for picking up a role and basically have the game facilitate this role a bit. If you 'just' reduce the size you will have droves of people going 'i can't do this or that', so with these packs 'we' can easily point that the space is reduced so you can't do everything and that finding special beltpacks will facilitate any role they want to play.

Another reason for the packs is drops! see people (including yourself) keep requesting droprates to go down, there are two ways to do this, either you increase the droprate of other items and reduce it of those you want reduced (seeing the total will still need to be 100%). OR, you add more items to these droplists, i'm sure you can see that if currently there are 10 items, each item 'theoretically' has a 10% droprate. Now add a couple of items to this list and the droprate of all the items HAS to drop.

And i think these packs are cool :) , various of them are also authentic, so it isn't besides the 'reality' of DayZ to have them :)

I stick to my point that I don't think we need them but as I said, willing to give them a try which is more than I can say for a lot of suggestions... I really like the holster idea that was recently put forward too.

Anyhow, you said there were two ways to decrease drop rates but I think you're wrong... you don't need to have a certain amount of items to make up a "loot pile" You realise a loot pile could just be taken from the game or reduce the chances that say, any guns will spawn in a church this wouldn't effect the fact ammo, food and drinks do spawn in the church and they'd still have the same spawn rate. I'm not arguing against new items but I think using that as an excuse to add more items is strange.

Edited July 14, 2012 by FishIsTwonk

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Well think of this, if you remove a weapon drop from a church, WHAT will spawn in it's place now? nothing? something else but 'with the same chance' ... well if it's the same chance from a list of items, then technically the item that spawns in the guns place is now spawning more often than it was before, simply because the gun doesn't spawn anymore ;)

Feel free to stick to your point btw. some things do it for somebody and other things don't, i don't like beans irl f/e and nothing can change that, no matter how good they are prepaired and i enjoy the meal due to it, i still don't like them :P ... heck i even dislike pepsi so much that i ask my friends to exchange them for cokes in the game :) ... tnx though for atleast wanting to give the idea a try, and liking it more than the rest of the crud that is suggested...

Edited July 14, 2012 by L0GIN

[Claytonaj 12]

I'm with Twonk on this. Finding various tools around the place that would allow you to specialise, given a small enough toolbelt (i.e. forcing the choice), is a good idea. The idea of specialist 'packs' being found is too contrived for me. A medpack (for instance) will provide extra space but only for medical items? In my experience you can put whatever 'type' of item you like in a bag, space permitting (irrespective of its original intended use). Your suggestion limits improvisation in this respect, which would be a key skill in a survival situation (and one that I would like to be rewarded for in the game, since I have good improvisational skills IRL :D ).

[badsn 2]

Your suggestion limits improvisation in this respect, which would be a key skill in a survival situation (and one that I would like to be rewarded for in the game, since I have good improvisational skills IRL :D ).

so actors and musicians have the best chance to survive in a zombie apocalypse? oh yeah sure. There's always actors in the zombie movies. You must be right!

Edited July 14, 2012 by badsn

[m-c_k@hotmail.co.uk 0]

I realy like the idea of the smaller toolbelt but packs that allow you to hold more items as this would make poeple able to play for longer providing they don't get killed by a bandit.

[wulfenrider@msn.com 14]

I go along with the OP on this.Knowing how to use and maintain every weapon system,vehicle and medical application as well as being an expert hunter/survivalist and marathon runner is a tad unrealistic.

If you cannot elect to do a certain playstyle at character creation, have a way to do it during play.

Medical Backpack

I have proposed before that you could commit to playing a medic character at toon creation.You gain the ability after that to equip medical backpacks that are distinctive in apearence ( red for example ) and maybe a red cross armband etc...but be unable to equip ghille suits.

You lose the rifle weapons slot ( can still equip melee ) but gain a larger sized ....medical iems only...inventory.

[Claytonaj 12]

so actors and musicians have the best chance to survive in a zombie apocalypse? oh yeah sure.

Improvise

(v.)

To create spontaneously or without preparation.

To produce or make (something) from whatever is available.

(Oxford English Dictionary)

If I was trying to survive and I found a backpack that was originally intended to carry medical supplies I might use it instead to carry other things (food, water, tools, etc.). This would be improvisation (making use of what is available). Actors and musicians are often gifted improvisers, and creative thinkers, so yes these skills might help them to survive since they can be turned to uses other than making music or performing theatre. (This is not to say they would be the best at surviving, just that they possess some potentially useful abilities.)

[badsn 2]

yeah as in shaun of the dead when they do the Zombie reenactment ;)

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

@Claytonaj, seeing you are so critical and improvisional (aka. creative) perhaps you want to look deeper into the details of the packs, and the things i mentioned to be able to stack in there. At some point it's hard to be critical vs. your own idea, but I am sure that if you look deeper into the details that a lot of packs are set up to be as 'authentic' or I personally like to use 'believable' as possible...

Take the knifepack for example, while i called it a pack it should actually be like a knifeholster, these tend to fit a knife and have this small bag at the front that usually has either a firestarter or sharpening stone in it. This bag is so smal you could fit like half a box of matches in it, and the holster for the knife itself is so 'thin' that it will only hold a knife. So those are the things i restricted this 'pack' to. And in a similar fashion the 'shovelpack' which you may have seen in your lifetime, would be one of those military shovel packs, that basically can only hold a shovel and come with a small pack attached as well, seeing these have a hole in the bottom to hold the shovel's stick part, i took the liberty to also have you store a crowbar in there, as that would make sense. anything else would just either fall out or not fit...

But like i said, please run through the details of the packs and let me know if you see anything you think should also be possible to store in there. BUT, do realize that this is a game, not IRL, and that some restrictions in regards to items enhance gameplay (aka. make it a tad more difficult f/e). For this i shall point out the medical pack. While i do somewhat agree that IRL one of these could also hold other items, once you equip a medical bag, you can free up space in your normal inventory. This in turn makes you able to store more 'other' things, for example storing bandages in the medicalpack makes it possible for you to store more ammo clips in your normal inventory, OR likewise, find an ammopack and you are able to carry more bandages, or more 'food/etc' if you prefer to store primairy ammo. While in your views this is an unreal restriction on the pack, it does 'simulate' what would happen if you have some extra space, where which item goes is kind of trivial isn't it ?

Then as you go into details, you will also notice that there is a normal 'beltpack' in there as well, that gives room for ALL inventory items, so you could store a pile of wood in that bag, which obviously wouldn't be possible IRL. So while i personally think you are just being to critical about this, the idea is set up to take your concerns into considderation, but at some point this is also a game and the aim is 'believability' and not 'reality'.

Edited July 14, 2012 by L0GIN