Lots of Potential, but ...

[madglee 1]

I've now played for about 9 hours over the last two days. Definitely a steep learning curve.

I see a lot of potential in this mod/game, and I do like it; I played for 9 hours after all. However, having come from years of gaming with extremely difficult games, including MUDs like one called Carrion Fields, where people will murder you and take your hard earned equipment, I think I can offer some suggestions without in any way advocating making the game "easy" or like so many of the ridiculously stupid and boring FPS's on the market.

1) Perma-aggro. Has its place in some respects, but takes away from a lot of the fun. There should be a certain distance the zombies stop aggro, especially because they run like 28 days later rather than actual zombies. You don't even start with a knife or any sort of a weapon, so your entire goal is to find one before you can really even "play." Arguing that it's a survival simulator is a valid position, but doesn't have anything to do with fun for 90% of the population. One can spend a long time even finding a weapon, and while that's addictive in a way, it is definitely not fun.

2) Increase percentage rates on weapon drops, and bring back starting with a weapon. See above.

3) Little communication on coms. I realize to RP we're all survivors, and we wouldn't even have access to coms, so it makes sense to be sneaking about, trying to scavenge food and water and first aid and weapons without any hope of survival or contact, but at some point, lack of any furthering of the goal of finding teammates, adds to an already semi-tedious experience for anyone not in a clan, hence the multiple topics all over the place about "Help, can I join a clan."

4) This is not a troll point - I realize a lot of the players may be teenagers, and possibly not totally accepted in normal society due to morbid obesity. Fine. Unlikely, otherwise, that after 9 hours, the first player I even saw literally leapt from the bushes, hit me in just the right way to break my legs, and then ran off leaving me to be eaten. I have nothing on me whatsoever, nothing to scavenge. The only RP for that is that his mind snapped, which would make sense; but someone who is so calculating as to not even waste ammo is obviously a vet and not having a psychotic break. I don't care about the griefing - the MUD had plenty of that. What worries me about that sort of behavior is that this mod, which has massive potential, will go the way of difficult, nail-biting MUDs like CF...a handful of vets who hate noobs, grief them, and drive them away. That just leads to the death of the game (except after 10 years, about 20 people will play at any one time, instead of hundreds or thousands.) It makes sense that survivors would, for the most part, attempt to band together. Obviously exceptions would definitely exist, and axe wielding, blubberous 16 year olds are no exception.

5) Perma aggro. Again. Should be reserved for select creatures and areas, if at all. How many times does one really want to just run for the ocean or docks?

Hopefully this is not taken as a complaint thread, but rather some constructive criticism. I think the mod is spectacular in its immersion and potential. I have not been having a lot of fun, but it is certainly addictive, and watching videos on Youtube and the like, I can see that banding together (or even playing solo) once weapons are acquired can be quite the experience and very fun. I did manage to get a crossbow and an axe in one game, and after patching myself up, was searching everywhere for water and food while my temp dropped. It was harrowing and exciting.

I'd like to see a bit less of a learning curve - see start weapon and lose perma aggro in all areas - without dumbing this very creative and interesting game down to the level of most of the FPS crap on the market.

[Nightice 4]

-> 3 and 4 are good, however it is alpha and the perma aggro is extremely buggy at the moment, spend several days in game playing around zombies and you get used to the over sensitive nature.

*also, Zombies are so easy to lose now through trees or even a few buildings and a fence.

*and, Again Weapons are not *THAT* hard to find. people forget there is more to the map then just the coastline - If you literally ran inland for 10minutes most deer stands have guns and if you cant stand that run to Vysotta... i walked into a barn earlier today and found 3 Double-Barrelled Shotguns

TL:DR . Play more of the game, rack up some bandit kills, learn to search deer Stands without aggroing Zombies around them, Read the wiki, watch guides, practice. And wait till the mod comes out of Alpha.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Nightice

[Zombie_chew_toy 2]

1- Perma aggro: You know if you break LOS (line of sight) and they dont see or hear you again you lose aggro. So you can lose them and then hide. Note they will search the immediate area that they lost sight of you. So make sure you move away from the area, slowly and quietly,

2- There is no reason to do either of those except to make it easier.

3- Its called direct communication and as long as you have a mic you can use it. I think the range is about 50 feet. Or join a vent/teamspeak/mumble server. Zero reason for global chat.

4- Not a troll point, come on buddy you say its not a troll point and then the next sentence you toll because someone fucked you up. Get over it, they probably arnt fat, they most likely live in their moms basement and have never been laid....lol.

This is a pseudo-simulator of a zombie like plague. How people act is up to them. Some people RP, some dont. Some just like to gear up and kill anyone, some like to play a survivalist. Some like to group, and some like to avoid everyone. How a person plays and or acts shouldnt be dictated by anyone but themselves and other players.

5- See point 1

I'd like to see a bit less of a learning curve - see start weapon and lose perma aggro in all areas - without dumbing this very creative and interesting game down to the level of most of the FPS crap on the market.

But everything you just said, would like to see, does exactly that, dumbs it down. Keep playing the learning curve gets less steep the more experience you have in game playing.

And remember its in ALPHA which means there are going to be some seriously fucked up things happening. Like the super sight aggro-range zombies seem to have if you walk in front of them. Ahm.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Zombie_chew_toy

[Zombie_chew_toy 2]

Hey look double post, cause the forum post editing is fucked up.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Zombie_chew_toy

[madglee 1]

1

4- Not a troll point, come on buddy you say its not a troll point and then the next sentence you toll because someone fucked you up. Get over it, they probably arnt fat, they most likely live in their moms basement and have never been laid....lol.

This is a pseudo-simulator of a zombie like plague. How people act is up to them. Some people RP, some dont. Some just like to gear up and kill anyone, some like to play a survivalist. Some like to group, and some like to avoid everyone. How a person plays and or acts shouldnt be dictated by anyone but themselves and other players.

You got me there, I shouldn't have started the attacks. I really wasn't whining other than the attack on the fat. My other points in 4 make sense.

[madglee 1]

-> 3 and 4 are good, however it is alpha and the perma aggro is extremely buggy at the moment, spend several days in game playing around zombies and you get used to the over sensitive nature.

*also, Zombies are so easy to lose now through trees or even a few buildings and a fence.

*and, Again Weapons are not *THAT* hard to find. people forget there is more to the map then just the coastline - If you literally ran inland for 10minutes most deer stands have guns and if you cant stand that run to Vysotta... i walked into a barn earlier today and found 3 Double-Barrelled Shotguns

TL:DR . Play more of the game, rack up some bandit kills, learn to search deer Stands without aggroing Zombies around them, Read the wiki, watch guides, practice. And wait till the mod comes out of Alpha.

I've been running inland all the time. I've found about 10 deer stands, total, using internet maps, and they always have ammo but no guns. Maybe I'm just getting unlucky. Looking at the spawn rate, at least according to the sites I've looked at like DayZDB and dayzmaps.info, the spawn rate of guns, at highest, is 3%. I'm a noob, so have no idea if those percentages are valid. I can just say that in 9 hours of raiding farm houses and deer stands, I've never found anything but a crossbow and one bolt, which led me to post that.

[LordRayken 30]

I disagree on starting with a weapon. The thrill of going through Cherno or the Airstrip with nothing to risk and trying to search for a weapon is half the fun of early game. Starting with a weapon immediately makes things pointless, and not to mention, starting with a weapon gives new players the impression they should shoot would-be attackers - like zombies. This only leads to their immediate death as they learn very quickly that 50 more swarm out and the entire town is then alerted and they die. Surprise, surprise - weapons are limited in their usefulness, so why start with one?

Starting with weapons - No. You need to really experiment around with nothing on you before a weapon is even a good idea to have. If you're alone, opening fire is really, really, REALLY... I can't say it enough. Really really really stupid. You will not be able to take out the multitude of zombies that swarm you in most of the starting areas if you are a new player who's trigger happy.

As for the communication, no. Forget it. That's not the point of this game and communication only boiled down to, "Who's shooting in Cherno?!" in the past. That's a funny joke now, but literally, that was what communication was for a long period of time. It's irritating, it gets annoying, and to make matters worse in alpha when it's not, "Who's shooting in Cherno?!" it's "Hey, I have this glitch and this and this and this." No more Global Chat, sorry, it's gone and it was for the birds anyway.

Your complaints about the item grind are not new, everyone's gone through that at one point or the other. But soon you learn of Deer Stands. Soon you learn Zombies move slower indoors. Soon you learn that Medium Yield buildings (Barns with red roofs) are in abundant supply, and soon you learn the ins and outs of sparsely populated towns with grocery stores like Zelenogorsk and if you are smart, which very few of your fellow players are, Berezino, which has TWO grocery stores and a hospital, it also has four military tents that spawn military grade loot. The one place you're guaranteed to probably be able to find supplies and make it out fine is also the one place very few people frequent because the noobs who play for 9 hours like you stay on the south coastal towns, die to zombies, die trying to find things, and die to other noob players, and think that's all there is to the game.

Anyways, TL;DR,

You ARE complaining, and it is from a lack of experience in the game. It should not take you 9 hours to learn how to do things, and even if it did take you 9 hours, your first complaint by then should have been, "There need to be non-pvp servers." Which I can get behind. Because my number one problem in game now is not the zombies; it's the other players who shoot because the only other option to them is they'll be shot by you, because although this is a sandbox game where you make your own choices, I've found again and again you either die as a survivor, or live long enough to see yourself become a bandit.

Edited July 11, 2012 by LordRayken

[CommanderBoiled 1]

Hey look double post, cause the forum post editing is fucked up.

you have to refresh the page after you finished editing your post.

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

but doesn't have anything to do with fun for 90% of the population. One can spend a long time even finding a weapon, and while that's addictive in a way, it is definitely not fun.

i stopped there because its all that matters - game is not about fun, its about challange. see how bad things can go, and what you can possibly do to come out ahead.

its supposed to be unbalanced, cruel, unforgiving, frustrating.

its supposed to scare the hell out of you (stil lacking a bit at this point, i'd like to see more suprising/shocking elements).

to me, this is fun because its just that type of game i've been wating on for years.

if things gonna change, then hopefully to the worse.

[Tenderness 30]

I've now played for about 9 hours over the last two days. Definitely a steep learning curve.

I see a lot of potential in this mod/game, and I do like it; I played for 9 hours after all. However, having come from years of gaming with extremely difficult games, including MUDs like one called Carrion Fields, where people will murder you and take your hard earned equipment, I think I can offer some suggestions without in any way advocating making the game "easy" or like so many of the ridiculously stupid and boring FPS's on the market.

1) Perma-aggro. Has its place in some respects, but takes away from a lot of the fun. There should be a certain distance the zombies stop aggro, especially because they run like 28 days later rather than actual zombies. You don't even start with a knife or any sort of a weapon, so your entire goal is to find one before you can really even "play." Arguing that it's a survival simulator is a valid position, but doesn't have anything to do with fun for 90% of the population. One can spend a long time even finding a weapon, and while that's addictive in a way, it is definitely not fun.

Ehm.. I find the part about looking for a weapon and being completely scared in the first 20-30 mins fun / exciting / w/e you will call it ^^

[aikidragon 0]

I'm pretty sure the line of sight is a little bugged in 1.7.2. At least that's my opinion. You cannot stay proned near a window without agroing a zombie that passes by the window without even looking at it.

[lethalwalou 0]

You really need to play more before posting any complaints.

1) It is possible to lose the aggro with going out of LOS. You need to learn the distances when the zombies aggro and play by them. I have experienced that crawling is effective, though not in big cities. I hate when people complain like this: ''The zombies are too fast. Zombies can't be fast'' Correction, they are infected and they can be fast. They are not zombies.

2) You have only played for two days and you want the starting gun back. You haven't even played when there was a starting gun so you don't know what it was like. It was horrible. People just kept running the coastline and shooting everything and everyone. It adds more challenge in the game now that you have no gun or a lot of gear. You can find a gun if you know what to look for. A hatchet is one of the best guns in the game, learn to use it. You need to make plans for yourself, in case you die. I have created a plan with which I can gather all supplies easily after I die.

3) We don't need the global comm any more. It was pain in the ass to have it. People kept on spamming it all the time.

4) In every game, if there's a way to be a douche, people will use it. Your experience is one of the many. There's one big problem in the game now, the attitude of the players. People will shoot first and ask questions later. Also if you shoot someone and don't kil them immediatelly, they alt + f4 almost everytime. That problem is going to be fixed though.

My experience of the game got a lot better when I headed to inland. I spent my first month with the game on the coastline, in Elektro mostly. I enjoyed the game, but not much. It all changed when I headed inland and now I have good gear and I'm able to survive without going in the big cities. I have clanmates also which makes the game more fun and easier. I don't have to take any chances anymore by being a guardian angel of the rest of them.

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

1) Perma-aggro. Has its place in some respects, but takes away from a lot of the fun. There should be a certain distance the zombies stop aggro, especially because they run like 28 days later rather than actual zombies. You don't even start with a knife or any sort of a weapon, so your entire goal is to find one before you can really even "play." Arguing that it's a survival simulator is a valid position, but doesn't have anything to do with fun for 90% of the population. One can spend a long time even finding a weapon, and while that's addictive in a way, it is definitely not fun.

Its simple enough to get rid of infected aggro, it may not necessary be fun though. To me it seems that after playing only 9 hours you are still making some mistakes.

2) Increase percentage rates on weapon drops, and bring back starting with a weapon. See above.

There are enough weapons available in the game. Once you know where to go and what to look for it should be no problem to acquire a weapon (not necessarily a gun!!!) within 5-10 minutes.

3) Little communication on coms. I realize to RP we're all survivors, and we wouldn't even have access to coms, so it makes sense to be sneaking about, trying to scavenge food and water and first aid and weapons without any hope of survival or contact, but at some point, lack of any furthering of the goal of finding teammates, adds to an already semi-tedious experience for anyone not in a clan, hence the multiple topics all over the place about "Help, can I join a clan."

I believe enabling different ways of communicating and better group play is already on the Day Z roadmap. In Alpha stage there are much more basic things to take care of first.

4) This is not a troll point - I realize a lot of the players may be teenagers, and possibly not totally accepted in normal society due to morbid obesity. Fine. Unlikely, otherwise, that after 9 hours, the first player I even saw literally leapt from the bushes, hit me in just the right way to break my legs, and then ran off leaving me to be eaten.

Not all survivors have a story with a happy ending. Dying at random is part of the game.

5) Perma aggro. Again. Should be reserved for select creatures and areas, if at all. How many times does one really want to just run for the ocean or docks?

Run to the hills! Run for your lives! Edited July 11, 2012 by Lukio

[resident_leeonheart@yahoo.com 32]

1- Perma aggro: You know if you break LOS (line of sight) and they dont see or hear you again you lose aggro. So you can lose them and then hide. Note they will search the immediate area that they lost sight of you. So make sure you move away from the area, slowly and quietly,

I actually went far enough to break LOS at times but the infected still seem to find me all the time or keep on chasing me. I still think there should be a limit of how far/fast they should chase you. At the looney toons speed they're currently at, it's near impossible to loose them and the safest bet is to head for the ocean thus risking your supplies being dropped into the sea. Hopefully this will change when it goes into beta.

Edited July 11, 2012 by leeo38

[jedra 4]

I think the OP makes a few good points. I have been playing DayZ since it first leaked out of New Zealand and have started to find it quite frustrating on first spawn...

The infected are now a lot harder to avoid aggro-ing than they initially were which makes it's really difficult to get started. I think that they should go back to giving the player a weapon on spawn. Not a gun though - maybe a plank of wood, or a big stick that breaks after a few uses. This gives the player enough self defence to get started in finding a proper weapon and some basic food/drink.

Yesterday after patching, I found it really hard to get going after a fresh spawn - it took several lives before I eventually managed to find a weapon (and this was only because I came across a player corpse). I spent most of the evening before that running and trying to lose aggro. If this was the first time I had played, I would probably have given up and not come back again.

With regard to point 4 - I think this is just part of the game - you are going to come across lunatics every now and again!

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

The infected are now a lot harder to avoid aggro-ing than they initially were which makes it's really difficult to get started.

Hmm did you try cluster tin-canning them? Those shiny cans seem to preoccupy the infected and spur them into higher philosophical thinking about their own existence and the gaia theory. If you, a long time player so it seems, have difficulties getting equipped right at the beginning, I think the difficulty / aggroing is fine, maybe needs a bit tweaking, but the prospect of having to restart from zero needs to be something you really dislike. Up till now most people have been too comfortable with dying imo.

[CER10TY 3]

I liked lethalwalou's post, it summed up pretty much everything I originally wanted to say.

But one thing: Most of us are not here to -roleplay- survivors. I know how fun roleplay can be but I'm not roleplaying in DayZ. Why? Because

a- It's impossible due to most players shooting you on sight, whether you got loot or are any sort of threat or not.

b- Tbh DayZ isn't exactly made for roleplay. You could possibly roleplay in DayZ but the social interaction involved (if it is involved, depends on the situation obviously) is more on a personal level (which means you don't exactly roleplay your character beng afraid but more that you personally have some sort of fear and are on your guard).

I haven't really encountered any roleplayers in DayZ, have yet to find somebody doing that, however I feel it is very hard to even establish proper roleplay if the other person isn't following you on the track, so to say. As I mentioned reviously, the social interaction in DayZ is completely on a personal level and not necessarily on a roleplay level unless both parties know eachother and desperately want to roleplay.

Edited July 11, 2012 by CER10TY

[Monstrous Treachery 7]

People are constantly nagging about starting weapons, mainly new players. Come on. It's so easy to find a weapon, so so easy. Why make the game more easier?

I understand this game has a huge audience, but this game is simply not for everybody, so if your mindset is to make this game more simplified and easier, it's not for you. It's a zombie apocalypse, you're fighting for your life in the midst of havoc and chaos. What's missing is somebody suggesting barrack spawns near the coast. :P

[Mitchellkillsallyall 0]

Man.. if you have trouble surviving ..than you just need to get more experience

it isnt hard to find what you need.. especially not if you use the dayzdb map

looking for stuff ..learning new things.. is what makes the game fun

if i need a gun i can find one... without a doubt

iv only been playin for a week now. died several times... and gettin more skills every respawn

no game for whiners.. we dont need a starting gun !!

Edited July 11, 2012 by Mitchellkillsallyall

[mrducky (DayZ) 33]

I've found again and again you either die as a survivor, or live long enough to see yourself become a bandit.

Yes. Exactly.

The unfortunate choises this game presents you, is to keep dying as a survivor and then eventually either just quit playing or becoming a bandit.

Being a friendly survivor, all you have to gain is eventually getting killed by another player or possibly a bug. (Once you've learned the basics of the zeds, they no-longer pose a real threat - except when they are being buggy.)

Whether that death happens at the average survival time of 30 minutes or so, or after 30 days is just a matter of choice and luck. Once you know the game well enough, it isn't hard to survive 10+ days compared to surviving that average 30 minutes - Mostly, its just more boring, which is why not very many players are willing to choose that, and rather just risk it at cherno or elektro. (Which aren't really even that bad nowadays, compared to what they used to be.)

And regardless of your choice of surviving a longer time at the north or a shorter time at the south, eventually, you'll come across that person who is a bandit and who manages to shoot you. And generally the one who is willing to shoot first, no questions asked (a.k.a. the bandit), is the more likely one to survive.

... Or, alternatively you choose to become a bandit yourself and go killing others instead. That way, you'll at least rack up some kills before someone else gets you. You'll live a shorter life, but it will be a much more interesting one. You trade the meaningless survival time metric to the equally meaningless kill count metric.

I've played countless hours as a survivor, then briefly gone to banditry, then back to being a survivor, and now finally playing as a bandit again. The only regret I have when shooting other players is that I cannot see who's a new player and who's not. I would gladly leave the noobs alive or even help them (cos they actually might still be true survivors) - but since there really is no way to tell if its just a bandit who just died and respawned or some noob, I'll just shoot them all on sight.

And as the OP made the point about veterans hating the noobs and griefing them away... Its not that I would hate the noobs - its rather just the opposite. Its just that the game won't really let you know who is a noob and who is not. Sure, if you were to spy on them long enough to make some deduction based on their play-style, etc, you might get some idea. But then again... You would be giving that possible bandit a chance to get a jump on you instead, so its better to just eliminate the guy as soon as possible. Any noobs getting killed in the process are just colletaral damage. (And I'm guess there might be some other veterans who actually do like to specifically grief the noobs)

No point in blaming the player base for the rampart killing if the game mechanics essentially keep driving the players to banditry. I would certainly welcome any changes that would fix the situation to some extent.

[green_machine 179]

Perma Aggro does not exist. I have several points of advice but I'd rather not share them with you because I'm an Axe wielding psycho who likes using players as Zombie chow to evade death.

I'd like to see a bit less of a learning curve - see start weapon and lose perma aggro in all areas - without dumbing this very creative and interesting game down to the level of most of the FPS crap on the market.

(As a solo player)

If you can't learn fast, you DIE.

If you don't have the dedication to learn, you will FAIL.

(General ARMA II Rule, I'd imagine)

If you start with a weapon, It will DUMB your senses and DUMB your ability to form a strategy.

DayZ is not a game on the market, you should not compare this game with anything that you see on the market that has a price tag.... Therefore, you should not even look at the market of games available when sizing up DayZ, which is what your OP seems to be for.

When I had friends, we used to talk about Zombie Apocalypse Survival, I was always the guy who made it hard for everyone else to survive by objecting towards every idea created. I made it hard on them. They hated me for it. I buzz-killed every idea. When you play, imagine me on your shoulder, that is DayZ and possibly Rockets intentions. (Rocket> DayZ creator)

DayZ is the chance to say, I can survive a Zombie apocalypse.

Once you respawn on DayZ, Consider your life expendable, take risks and focus on reaping every percentage you can whilst your life last, afterall, you're just a random guy, just like all the Zombies used to be...

For once in everybodies life, we have the chance to say..... This is not a game.

[DiabloSP 0]

The problem with bandits and people shooting everybody on sight, is that you can, in fact, respawn. If we were in a REAL zombie apocalypse where diying was forever, I assure you most people would never shoot another living person.

I would like some mechanism in the game to reflect on that, it's not real as it is. It's just a game, and if this does not change, it would never grow as more than a game.

Ideas welcome :D

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

I would like some mechanism in the game to reflect on that, it's not real as it is. It's just a game, and if this does not change, it would never grow as more than a game.

we dont need realism, we need authenticity. more realism doesn't neccesserily mean better. dayz/arma is not considered to be a game anyways.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Azrail

[Andy P 2]

Lol at the use of "Actual Zombies", next you will tell us how actual unicorns run

[LordRayken 30]

For once in everybodies life, we have the chance to say..... This is not a game.

lol, whoa, calm down there jethro.