DayZ and Basic Human Nature

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

I commend you for your greatly crafted argument and you should know that I made this account just to do so. It's a great read' date=' which I fear will be skipped by many merely for it's length. So here, I hope my post will bring attention to what you have to say.

[/quote']

while long, several parts of it are incredibly false

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

tl;dr this whole thread.

You guys need to get jobs for real. Go outside and be in the sun a while.

This is a game, it isn't a morality experiment.

Quite frankly, some of you have never killed another person in real life.

If you're a combat vet, you know what the fuck I'm talking about here.

So please don't compare killing someone in a video game to killing someone in reality.

There is zero comparison. One is irreversible. One is a fucking inconvenience.

[pendergraft 1]

While I applaud the bravado of your Hooked-on-Phonics approach to message board threads, I don't think you have the right of this discussion.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

While I applaud the bravado of your Hooked-on-Phonics approach to message board threads' date=' I don't think you have the right of this discussion.

[/quote']

Who are you talking to?

[pendergraft 1]

A barely-sentient shower curtain ring, I suspect.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

A barely-sentient shower curtain ring' date=' I suspect.

[/quote']

Well I only ask because you accuse people of ignorance, but you don't know how to use the reply function or quote function to direct your ad hominem attacks properly so that people know who you're trying so desperately to insult with your pathetic attempts at a dig.

Now, I'm not going to insult you because I have a gentleman's agreement with the mods....so consider yourself lucky.

[pendergraft 1]

Ad hominem! How fascinating, how bizarre! I'd love to know how you manage to write this stuff from the confines of the capuchin enclosure at the San Francisco Zoo.

Now, I understand the life of a semi-literate monkey must be a difficult one, full of travails and bananas, so allow me to impart a single piece of wisdom: When you preface your post with a disclaimer that pretty much says, "I did not read this thread but by golly I'll be damned if that means I won't post something wrongly and obnoxiously accusatory in it," what follows rarely holds any relevance to the discussion at hand.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

Ad hominem! How fascinating' date=' how bizarre! I'd love to know how you manage to write this stuff from the confines of the capuchin enclosure at the San Francisco Zoo.

Now, I understand the life of a semi-literate monkey must be a difficult one, full of travails and bananas, so allow me to impart a single piece of wisdom: When you preface your post with a disclaimer that pretty much says, "I did not read this thread but by golly I'll be damned if that means I won't post something wrongly and obnoxiously accusatory in it," what follows rarely holds any relevance to the discussion at hand.

[/quote']

he said he did not read the whole thread... there is a difference

[Herr Robert 28]

As a bandit player I will kill other survivors when I'm able to do so safely, even if it's just for the sport. However, I have a hard time to kill someone when I have announced that I'm friendly (to avoid getting shot) and they are nice enough to not open fire.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

As a bandit player I will kill other survivors when I'm able to do so safely' date=' even if it's just for the sport. However, I have a hard time to kill someone when I have announced that I'm friendly (to avoid getting shot) and they are nice enough to not open fire.

[/quote']

dont worry, it gets easier with time, i recommend you start practicing

[ClinClin 1]

I too find the behaviours of people really interesting. However I do not think all players are behaving realistically.

Too many bandits seem to be doing it for the lulz and not because they actually would IRL.

Well' date=' IRL a lot will be doing it for lulz too. And not necessarily exactly that lot, who do it in-game.

[/quote']

I really doubt that alot will be doing it IRL. Imagine it. People who have lost their family, their friends, have no one else to help them. Their life is in constant danger. But hey nothing a good laugh can't fix. Where's that rifle?

Yes there would be hostile encounters, theft, robbery, assault; don't doubt that for a second. But mindlessly killing people is something alot of people would not do.

People get accustomed to any situation they appear in, to the point they perceive it as "normal". Even the most terrible disaster would eventually stop being perceived as an "emergency state" and become a routine. And then people will start looking for "lulz". You are right, there will be not "a lot" maybe in relative figures, but much more "a lot" than seems possible for a modern society.

I've actually seen people whose concepts of "fun" were so far away from mine, that I just wouldn't be sure... Especially some near-twenties' teens.

[noego 0]

I commend you for your greatly crafted argument and you should know that I made this account just to do so. It's a great read' date=' which I fear will be skipped by many merely for it's length. So here, I hope my post will bring attention to what you have to say.

[/quote']

while long, several parts of it are incredibly false

while short, the factual value of your post is null

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

I commend you for your greatly crafted argument and you should know that I made this account just to do so. It's a great read' date=' which I fear will be skipped by many merely for it's length. So here, I hope my post will bring attention to what you have to say.

[/quote']

while long, several parts of it are incredibly false

while short, the factual value of your post is null

do i really need to prove how this is wrong?

"You say people would look out for themselves and their families, as if their families were extensions of themselves. But this “family” you speak of is not a universally innate concept: it is an invention of the European industrial revolution"

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

Ad hominem! How fascinating' date=' how bizarre! I'd love to know how you manage to write this stuff from the confines of the capuchin enclosure at the San Francisco Zoo.

Now, I understand the life of a semi-literate monkey must be a difficult one, full of travails and bananas, so allow me to impart a single piece of wisdom: When you preface your post with a disclaimer that pretty much says, "I did not read this thread but by golly I'll be damned if that means I won't post something wrongly and obnoxiously accusatory in it," what follows rarely holds any relevance to the discussion at hand.

[/quote']

See deadbolt's reply to your inane drivel.

I read the OP and nothing else, and I responded in kind. Now, did you just come to this thread to be a jerk? Or does it come naturally to you?

[noego 0]

I commend you for your greatly crafted argument and you should know that I made this account just to do so. It's a great read' date=' which I fear will be skipped by many merely for it's length. So here, I hope my post will bring attention to what you have to say.

[/quote']

while long, several parts of it are incredibly false

while short, the factual value of your post is null

do i really need to prove how this is wrong?

"You say people would look out for themselves and their families, as if their families were extensions of themselves. But this “family” you speak of is not a universally innate concept: it is an invention of the European industrial revolution"

Considering I expressed very enthusiastic endorsement of the original argument in my initial post, it would seem obvious that convincing me of it's invalidity would take more than merely stating "it's wrong."

While I might have some minor objections to certain parts of the argument, I see nothing wrong with the passage you quoted. Our concept of family as a nuclear structure based around a pair of sexual partners and their direct offspring is cultural. Pharmakon even gave example of different models that were observed in indigenous cultures.

[pendergraft 1]

See deadbolt's reply to your inane drivel.

I read the OP and nothing else' date=' and I responded in kind. Now, did you just come to this thread to be a jerk? Or does it come naturally to you?

[/quote']

Should I still be considering myself lucky, or have the gloves come off?

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

Should I still be considering myself lucky' date=' or have the gloves come off?

[/quote']

Nah I just went ahead and reported you since you obviously have just come to this thread to troll and insult, and bring nothing constructive to the thread at all.

I'll let the moderators deal with you.

[noego 0]

tl;dr this whole thread.

You guys need to get jobs for real. Go outside and be in the sun a while.

This is a game' date=' it isn't a morality experiment.

Quite frankly, some of you have never killed another person in real life.

If you're a combat vet, you know what the fuck I'm talking about here.

So please don't compare killing someone in a video game to killing someone in reality.

There is zero comparison. One is irreversible. One is a fucking inconvenience.

[/quote']

Would you consider it to be a valid experiment on willingness to cause inconvenience to a stranger for self-enrichment?

[Syrius 0]

Hello!

I'll quickly introduce myself as Bill' date=' a politics and IR student currently at university and I joined today to pass on my thoughts on what makes DayZ a very important experiment in my humble opinion.

In DayZ, life is "nasty, poor, brutish and short", a world of no rules, and no leaders. It's "everyone against everyone for survival" that is the human nature. These fundamental laws of human nature without laws and governance that I have stated are the words of the important philosopher Thomas Hobbes who wrote at the time of the English Civil war. Now I wont bore you on what made him so important, however what he defines as basic human nature without governance or laws is evident in DayZ.

DayZ is (at least for me) becoming an interesting social experiment which brings out some very interesting emotions and behaviour in those individuals who are playing it. I'm aiming down the sights of my rifle at a survivor, and although I know it's only a game I pause as a decide on my next action, do I kill him, will he kill me if I wait any longer? How long has he been playing? Do I attempt to trust him? Just another mouth to feed? Or I'll just end his game, because I can. It stirs something deep in the mind, something very basic yet very unique from a game, I feel it will keep me coming back to DayZ for a very long time.

DayZ's brilliance is in its simplicity, it reduces us to our basic human nature to survive and how each individual deals with that in this excellent simulation is fascinating.

Bill

[/quote']

I've been playing for about a week now and today the straw that broke the camels back collided with my face in the shape of a bullet. A surviver shot me in the eye right after I waved my gun around the ceiling in an attempt to emulate lack of threat.Before this I might have stopped and helped a poor surviver fend zombies off or even spare some food , maybe ammo even; that ship has sailed. From this day on I have donned the guise of a bandit and trust no one.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

tl;dr this whole thread.

You guys need to get jobs for real. Go outside and be in the sun a while.

This is a game' date=' it isn't a morality experiment.

Quite frankly, some of you have never killed another person in real life.

If you're a combat vet, you know what the fuck I'm talking about here.

So please don't compare killing someone in a video game to killing someone in reality.

There is zero comparison. One is irreversible. One is a fucking inconvenience.

[/quote']

Would you consider it to be a valid experiment on willingness to cause inconvenience to a stranger for self-enrichment?

I would consider it to be a valid experiment on the ability of video games to warp the minds of people too weak to know the difference between reality and fantasy.

Killing pixels is not the same as killing a person, so I don't feel any morality one way or the other when I shoot someone in a video game. I have killed people in real life, so I know how bad it feels.

It irks me when people try to say that a video game is an excellent measure of morality. It isn't. At all. It's a game. It is meant to be enjoyed...nothing more. I enjoy getting a one-up on people in this game and stealing their shit.

I don't enjoy it in real life.

[statistx 5]

I usually hesitate to even interact with others. Mostly because I don't want to end up dying' date=' or vice versa. It'd make me feel like an asshole ending some persons game that has worked hard running around for days finding good gear etc.

[/quote']

Yeah, same here. I have ABSOLUTELY no moral issues if i know that other person is a bandit that shoots on sight, but the problem is, you probably won't stumble across the other guy killing someone, so they basically have the upper hand when they shoot first.

Which leaves me with two options: Do i shut off the morality thing and just shoot every survivor i stumble across, or do i take the risk and doubt their hostility first, if i really can't sneak it out first.

Sidenote: I think that changes drastically on a server where you got no nametags (i usually only play on those), otherwise you can make out from the chat who is who in most cases.

@argument about morality in a video game: Still I don't know the history of the other persons character. Maybe he survived for hours, walking around half the map and getting good gear, that surely would benefit me, but it would also mean i wasted that guys last few hours. Sure it sucks if you new character gets killed after 15 minutes, but he would only lose 15 minutes and probably not much gear/work put into it

[Syrius 0]

tl;dr this whole thread.

You guys need to get jobs for real. Go outside and be in the sun a while.

This is a game' date=' it isn't a morality experiment.

Quite frankly, some of you have never killed another person in real life.

If you're a combat vet, you know what the fuck I'm talking about here.

So please don't compare killing someone in a video game to killing someone in reality.

There is zero comparison. One is irreversible. One is a fucking inconvenience.

[/quote']

Absolute 0 contribution to the debate. The OP stated he finds this an interesting experiment. You know those things you do before you make a hypothesis ?

[pendergraft 1]

Should I still be considering myself lucky' date=' or have the gloves come off?

[/quote']

Nah I just went ahead and reported you since you obviously have just come to this thread to troll and insult, and bring nothing constructive to the thread at all.

I'll let the moderators deal with you.

I think you'll find a bit of ribbing falls well within the allowances of this forum. But, as the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat... cry for an adult to save you ...? Is that how it goes? Something like that, anyway.

I've earnestly contributed to this thread in prior pages, so your pompous assertion that I'm a troll is fairly limp. In fact, it's taken its latest turn at your insufferable behest. You can't say things like, "I didn't read any of this but nobody gets to discuss whatever it is that you guys are talking about because I once killed a human being; also, your insults are ineffectual and I'd cream you with my own were it not for the fact that my warning level is currently at 99%," and then scream like a midnight jogger in Central Park when someone lobs something your way.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

Should I still be considering myself lucky' date=' or have the gloves come off?

[/quote']

Nah I just went ahead and reported you since you obviously have just come to this thread to troll and insult, and bring nothing constructive to the thread at all.

I'll let the moderators deal with you.

I think you'll find a bit of ribbing falls well within the allowances of this forum. But, as the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat... cry for an adult to save you ...? Is that how it goes? Something like that, anyway.

I've earnestly contributed to this thread in prior pages, so your pompous assertion that I'm a troll is fairly limp. In fact, it's taken its latest turn at your behest. You can't say things like, "I didn't read any of this but nobody gets to discuss whatever it is that you guys are talking about because I once killed a human being; also, your insults are ineffectual and I'd cream you with my own were it not for the fact that my warning level is currently at 99%," and then scream like a midnight jogger in Central Park when someone lobs something your way.

Like I said.

I'll let the mods deal with you. I don't feel like getting banned for a troll.

Also, my post was a contribution. I was saying that there is a difference between killing in a video game, and killing in real life.

What I find incredible is people thinking that this game is somehow an interesting morality experiment. It's not.

Go kill someone in real life....and then come kill someone on a screen.

There's a difference.

Ask someone that has actually seen combat, not sat on his fat ass and played video games his whole life...then comes on here like an arm-chair intellectual...calling someone that makes a valid post "as intelligent as a shower curtain ring".

I think the mods will agree, insults aren't necessary....so keep on insulting dude. Your wake up call will come soon.

You came at me first....remember that.

[jordnz 102]

Ok both of you, we've made our point. Now lets stay on topic.