Multiple Characters Possible! Enter Non-HIVE Servers.

[rinaun 26]

Running a private server increases the chances of hacking. Scripts will be made on a private server and ported over to official! (rocket)

Yeah I'm sorry' date=' but thats not how it works. Rocket meant singeplayer version of the game where they can test their scripts and whatnot. Most of the "alternate-hive" servers have battleye running too. So you will still be banned for the obvious hacks.

[/quote']

Ok? So then the point is null and my argument is strengthened. I assumed having a live server to test changes would help hackers, but if it doesn't then more power to multiple HIVE servers!

Also admins dont have superpower in this game. They cant do shit but restart/kick/ban and' date=' sadly, change the time.

[/quote']

I was talking about HIVE admins.

[rinaun 26]

Shameless Bump

[fenrix 9]

I doubt the devs have much of an issue with the ones running battle eye but they have not come out and said they will not blacklist you if you run one with battle eye.

which is probably the only reason there are such a small number of them running on public listing.

(theres tons unlisted if you know where to look)

[rinaun 26]

I'm running mine on battleye currently. I am currently atm setting up the server I just rented and having fun learning PUTTY. If anyone wants to help hop into rinaun.com Teamspeak and help me out :D

[Disgraced 1123]

This is a childish response to an alpha mod test.

We are testers, not players. OP, are you dense or mentally incompetent?

We aren't playing to get fast connections and settle down in our little worlds and play a completed game.

We are here to help test, and that includes refinements of the hive engine which has been coming along better and better through different iterations.

Bunch of fucking impatient babies.

By the way, I simply filter for sub 100 ping. I get dozens of available servers and quick connection. I have standard residential DSL. Maybe it's time to move off of that free dial up.

[rinaun 26]

This is a childish response to an alpha mod test.

We are testers' date=' not players. OP, are you dense or mentally incompetent?

We aren't playing to get fast connections and settle down in our little worlds and play a completed game.

We are here to help test, and that includes refinements of the hive engine which has been coming along better and better through different iterations.

Bunch of fucking impatient babies.

By the way, I simply filter for sub 100 ping. I get dozens of available servers and quick connection. I have standard residential DSL. Maybe it's time to move off of that free dial up.

[/quote']

You sound really angry. I'd suggest some therapy to unwind that pent up anger instead of randomly blowing up over people experimenting with a mod to find better results. Your response is.........pretty funny. I like the comment about pings at the end when you clearly have no idea what I'm talking about. HIVE server has nothing to do with game server ping. ANGEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[fenrix 9]

actually disgraced, this could be considered a form of security testing, rocket probably would agree.

if just anyone can strip and re-use the database by looking into the mod code.. its not very secure.

same with hacks. anti cheat. glitching. cheating. ect.

by subverting the game rules people are actually providing valuable data to rocket on how to combat future issues with the game as well as seeing a few different environments the game may be played under.

also. if rocket actually checks some of these private servers he might see some interesting modifications that give him ideas to make dayz better.

I saw a server the other day running a modified version of CEG lighting so it had streetlights at night. they were flickering and dull. it was quite awesome. and spooky as hell walking along a coastal road in the dark with only dull flickering pools of streetlight to guide the way.

I was of course promptly snipered from some nearby trees but it was still awesome.

these kind of things allow rocket to simply cherrypick things from unauthorized servers and use them in the main game if he likes them. means he can test ideas and not waste time coding and working on them himself.

prettymuch how minecraft came up with alot of its patch updates.

stomping on a young dayz mod scene might not be the smartest move. the first step to modding is getting a working dayz server going.

after all. it might save rocket some work and help him get a much deeper level of community interaction and imput. but its his baby so its really up to rocket.

imo, a healthy modding scene = a healthy popular game.

bite modders hands at your own risk.

[rinaun 26]

actually disgraced' date=' this could be considered a form of security testing, rocket probably would agree.

if just anyone can strip and re-use the database by looking into the mod code.. its not very secure.

same with hacks. anti cheat. glitching. cheating. ect.

by subverting the game rules people are actually providing valuable data to rocket on how to combat future issues with the game as well as seeing a few different environments the game may be played under.

also. if rocket actually checks some of these private servers he might see some interesting modifications that give him ideas to make dayz better.

I saw a server the other day running a modified version of CEG lighting so it had streetlights at night. they were flickering and dull. it was quite awesome. and spooky as hell walking along a coastal road in the dark with only dull flickering pools of streetlight to guide the way.

I was of course promptly snipered from some nearby trees but it was still awesome.

these kind of things allow rocket to simply cherrypick things from unauthorized servers and use them in the main game if he likes them. means he can test ideas and not waste time coding and working on them himself.

prettymuch how minecraft came up with alot of its patch updates.

stomping on a young dayz mod scene might not be the smartest move. the first step to modding is getting a working dayz server going.

after all. it might save rocket some work and help him get a much deeper level of community interaction and imput. but its his baby so its really up to rocket.

imo, a healthy modding scene = a healthy popular game.

bite modders hands at your own risk.

[/quote']

I can say that the part about modding helping the official DayZ is true. I've already spent time brainstorming with my current users over fixes. One fix was adding slightly more bikes in main cities to allow players easy movement across the world without making vehicles over abundant :)

[Bat (DayZ) 230]

No, please don't do that. Would break the whole idea behind the game, which is permadeath. It might be a technical challenge to only have 1 hive server, BUT If players are given multiple characters, every choice/ every decision you make ingame would never be as dramatic again.

It's the soul behind the game you would instantly destroy.

BUT given we're in alpha, it could serve for testing different gameplay values or stuff.

Just hope the final game will keep it hardcore.

[Vipeax 318]

I don't have time to read this thread now, but I noticed something regarding:

Totally untrue in a sense. Rockets buddies seem to be rolling in cash considering it takes a licensing fee to run the server. I could be crazily wrong, but I'm pretty sure the webmaster here runs the DayZ licensing website. Besides that, If I run my own hive server then there should be NO reason I have to pay for a license; I'm not using any linked data!

Wait, what? Who has paid us ANY money at all so far? I bet none will ever come and say: I DID! without being a troll...

I wouldn't ask rocket to do this, but you do realize they are paid a licensing fee to run that database right? They certainly don't have an unlimited amount of cash but they ARE getting paid to run the server. Whether they are using the funds correctly/efficiently has yet to be seen.

Again, what?

not to mention the huge bandwidth costs it must be getting hit with.

Make a guess, I bet you will be far off.

Everyone is allowed to have their opinions regarding multi-chars, multi-dbs, private-dbs and all that, but the number of statements here that are claimed to be facts and so far from the truth as they could possibly be? Seems like you are trying to be wrong or something :/.

[fenrix 9]

yeah that licencing fee thing i was like wahhahaha?!

as for the rolling in cash thing, he may be referring to the fact that quite a few developers for dayz started hosting dayz servers. in fact several who previously had pink developer names have had thier developer status on teh forums removed but are now advertising and hosting servers for the mod.

by hosting I of course mean running server rental schemes and sub renting to dayz players.

in effect profiting off of the dayz playerbase by exploiting thier ability to easily access registration and setup information on getting the mod running as well as having direct contact with the developers.

I mean theres something hinky going on there. you got to admit it.

the fact that on several occasions developers have asked the server host companies to shut down a server for violating the rules without first going through the actual person paying for the server who is techinically the owner.

its a little fishy. is all.

juuust saying. mainly through a lack of transparancy about how these things are being treated by the devs/host providers.

not that they are not offering cheap servers or anything but they are not proffesional hosters and are basically only hosting for dayz and are obviously close with the developers to the point of some of them previously having dev/mod status.

I mean HFB is run by the guy who made the dayz website. and was set up specifically to run dayz servers. he even had mod or dev status at one point but now posts under a different name and has no dev colour on his name when posting on the forums. presumably to distance him from the fact that he is very close to the dev team and hide this so people do not assume the servers are in any way official.

not knowing the relationships or much about the dev team, this just comes off as looking like profiteering and attempting to hide it. is all.

[Tleilaxu 2]

i've read the startpost,it was full of terrible "idea's".

3/10,would not read again

[Vipeax 318]

yeah that licencing fee thing i was like wahhahaha?!

by hosting I of course mean running server rental schemes and sub renting to dayz players. in effect profiting off of the dayz playerbase by exploiting thier ability to easily access registration and setup information on getting the mod running as well as having direct contact with the developers.

See above. But if what you say is true' date=' damn, I should talk to these people for some money to run even!

I mean theres something hinky going on there. you got to admit it.

the fact that on several occasions developers have asked the server host companies to shut down a server for violating the rules without first going through the actual person paying for the server who is techinically the owner.

its a little fishy. is all.

Server hosters come to the server team for the required info to setup a new server, so they are also the point of contact from the server team point of view (kinda like a reseller-system).

juuust saying. mainly through a lack of transparancy about how these things are being treated by the devs/host providers.

Not really sure what you mean now. I really can't go into details, but so far everything costed money, be it Hive/website/support site/licenses/tools.

[BossFi 90]

My clan runs a dayz hive server. Search for frat in the filter. Much faster load speed than the big hive.

Good to hear! I've noticed if you keep the battleye patch to the latest version you can avoid huge amounts of hackers. Just a tip I've picked up :)

---

Not really. A server located in for instance Germany has to connect to HIVE in west coast. The reason it feels like it is server to server basis is because some US servers are hosted very close and the farther away from the hive server increases issues. A HIVE located on each side (US EAST' date=' US WEST, UK1, DE 1, AUS1,) would be the easiest fix and would allow 5 characters for people willing to switch/deal with latency. This would make every server run as fast as the best one you've connected to so far. People from germany connect to my server currently with the database on a close server and it's amazing the load time differences. It would also save tons of costs in hardware and makes just much more sense in terms of networking.

[/quote']

But im in the UK connecting to the servers hosted in the same country. Like yesterday UK 20 was taking 3 mins to get into game. yet UK 26 and UK 25 where fast loading. Same with DE servers.

Can I get pings on the DE servers that work well and that do not? I'd love to see this data and be proved wrong in some of my argument :).

I only connect to servers under 50 ping. no difference in pings between servers I connect to. So your have been prooved wrong already!

That isn't very reliable data you are showing, compared to rocket admitting they have burned up more than 2 servers running the HIVE server.

No it isnt but getting back to my original point, if 5 servers are loading fast and only 1 server is loading slow, in this particular case it cant be the hive can it? Common sense! :rolleyes:

[fenrix 9]

yeah it costs huge ammounts of money. if only you guys had a web store up and running ;) im sure I and the rest of us forum people could help you re-coup some losses.

and from the reasonable pricing the hosters are giving I doubt they are making much more than breaking even themselves.

but you got to admit. those people who were previously on the dev team would have a significant advantage sorting out server issues. as well as providing valuable input from server hosts to the developers. which is awesome and I hope they are doing their best to help you guys out. finding bugs and whatnot.

you guys could always re-sell hosting yourselves you know. to help fund the mod... just saying. all official like :P *thats what I assumed was happening when you dropped thier dev status. to hide it from people. im a suspicious bastard :P*

@bossfi

actually it can. for several reasons.

server location in relation to hive.

number of players on affected server

number of connections to affected server.

the server and the hive are joined at the hip, connections, players, join, disconnect, all cause database activity, if it gets clogged from heavy traffick, it gets backed up, gets laggy, de-syncs and occasionally crashes.

while yes. the server its self is partially to blame, the bottleneck is the hive its self. where all the information has be sent and recieved from. the main issue with this is of course its vulnerability to takedown.

thats why we need multiple hives or a distributed model for the database. the recent ddos higlited that particular issue.

I am a fan of local databases and server driven local systems because it offers far more flexibility and is more dynamic and allows the system to evolve and change instead of stagnate.

any game with player driven development has a much greater lifespan than the developers expect. look at garry's mod for example. its basically a simple sandbox game built using LUA script.

but people are building whole mods and game modes using the tools provided by the developers who are now... well lets say comfortably well compensated by the many many many game sales.

closed games with no official modding options die much faster and are as a result less profitable.

arma is its self an example of this. highly modifiyable. great toolset. but. years after release. a mod is created and completely re-invigorates sales of the original game.

shutting out independant modders and server owners. only hurts in the long run.

game modder/developer/animator/modeller myself so forgive my rant. its my passion to mod/make games :D

[humbleuk 76]

@bossfi yes it can and it is.

It's like being stood in a queue at a bank, it takes a while for everything to be processed. But when you get to the cashier and they do what they need to do, you just go to the back of the queue again. Rinse and repeat for ever. private hives/multi hives etc is like being in the same bank but there's NEVER A QUEUE! Sweet or what?

[rinaun 26]

I don't have time to read this thread now' date=' but I noticed something regarding:

Totally untrue in a sense. Rockets buddies seem to be rolling in cash considering it takes a licensing fee to run the server. I could be crazily wrong, but I'm pretty sure the webmaster here runs the DayZ licensing website. Besides that, If I run my own hive server then there should be NO reason I have to pay for a license; I'm not using any linked data!

Wait, what? Who has paid us ANY money at all so far? I bet none will ever come and say: I DID! without being a troll...

I wouldn't ask rocket to do this, but you do realize they are paid a licensing fee to run that database right? They certainly don't have an unlimited amount of cash but they ARE getting paid to run the server. Whether they are using the funds correctly/efficiently has yet to be seen.

Again, what?

not to mention the huge bandwidth costs it must be getting hit with.

Make a guess, I bet you will be far off.

Everyone is allowed to have their opinions regarding multi-chars, multi-dbs, private-dbs and all that, but the number of statements here that are claimed to be facts and so far from the truth as they could possibly be? Seems like you are trying to be wrong or something :/.

Adam McKissock runs or helps run HFB servers, correct? I remember him being a webadmin here and being actively involved. HFB is one of the more if not most popular dayZ hosting site. I'd do a WHOIS but it is protected and I can't be bothered to play sherlock to find out whom owns it.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=1

this is adam, right?

I doubt rocket makes any money (aside from what BI should be rightfully paying him and perks). I do think however everyone around him benefited very well. Adam created that site right as DayZ took off and a large amount of clients were received from this, as its about as close as you can get to having a server staffed by the devs by having a staffer anywhere on the site. If they are not linked and he is just a web designer strictly then my 100% my bad and I will remove this and my original post tinfoilhatness. I just found it incredibly incredibly weird that I saw the same names on most of the websites that strictly profit off of this mod. I also figured you were charging providers to connect to the main mysql database. Letting them access it for free isn't even feasible in the long run so setting it up to run in charity mode is probably not the best idea. It would make much more sense dividing the load between multiple servers and letting those providers chip in a limited amount per license sold.

ASIDE FROM TINFOIL LAND,

Rocket himself admitted the HIVE server has gone through multiple hardware changes in the few weeks it has been running. Splitting the load in early May would of been a smart move; less cash in bandwidth and hardware failures. This isn't even thinking about the THOUSANDS of people wanting multiple characters. I feel DayZ as a DEV team needs to either support this idea but make sure its kept in-house/limited, or make it clear that it isn't supported so we can stop hoping and start making our own communities with our HIVE servers and stay incredibly private/rogue. I'd rather it be supported and official. I won't say I'll never play official again but the response I've gotten from this server is pretty staggering and I've had to order a large dedicated server to handle the traffic volume. The same people keep coming back tooo so it's not hard to tell that they just simply do not like the official servers.

thanks for the response!

[Vipeax 318]

ASIDE FROM TINFOIL LAND' date='

Rocket himself admitted the HIVE server has gone through multiple hardware changes in the few weeks it has been running. Splitting the load in early May would of been a smart move; less cash in bandwidth and hardware failures. This isn't even thinking about the THOUSANDS of people wanting multiple characters. I feel DayZ as a DEV team needs to either support this idea but make sure its kept in-house/limited, or make it clear that it isn't supported so we can stop hoping and start making our own communities with our HIVE servers and stay incredibly private/rogue. I'd rather it be supported and official. I won't say I'll never play official again but the response I've gotten from this server is pretty staggering and I've had to order a large dedicated server to handle the traffic volume. The same people keep coming back tooo so it's not hard to tell that they just simply do not like the official servers.

thanks for the response!

- Make a guess regarding the bandwidth, but before you do keep in mind that simple strings don't take up a lot of bandwidth ;).

- Adding multichars wouldn't even be hard in a single DB system (kinda like the male/female option you'd chose between characters). The problem is that DayZ is about surviving at all times, not about getting your Rangefinder+AS50 out only when your 49 buddies are with you to hunt down some zombie AI at a distance of 800m.

[rinaun 26]

yeah that licencing fee thing i was like wahhahaha?!

Yea' date=' that one might be my bad :-/ It's hard to imagine you aren't charging the providers making money off your service to keep your backend up. It really isn't good practice long-term.

as for the rolling in cash thing, he may be referring to the fact that quite a few developers for dayz started hosting dayz servers. in fact several who previously had pink developer names have had thier developer status on teh forums removed but are now advertising and hosting servers for the mod.

by hosting I of course mean running server rental schemes and sub renting to dayz players.

in effect profiting off of the dayz playerbase by exploiting thier ability to easily access registration and setup information on getting the mod running as well as having direct contact with the developers.

I mean theres something hinky going on there. you got to admit it.

the fact that on several occasions developers have asked the server host companies to shut down a server for violating the rules without first going through the actual person paying for the server who is techinically the owner.

its a little fishy. is all.

I mean HFB is run by the guy who made the dayz website. and was set up specifically to run dayz servers. he even had mod or dev status at one point but now posts under a different name and has no dev colour on his name when posting on the forums. presumably to distance him from the fact that he is very close to the dev team and hide this so people do not assume the servers are in any way official.

not knowing the relationships or much about the dev team, this just comes off as looking like profiteering and attempting to hide it. is all.

NAILED IT. It wasn't just adam's name I saw around town.

---

Adam McKissock runs or helps run HFB servers' date=' correct? I remember him being a webadmin here and being actively involved. HFB is one of the more if not most popular dayZ hosting site. I'd do a WHOIS but it is protected and I can't be bothered to play sherlock to find out whom owns it.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=1

this is adam, right? [/quote']

ASIDE FROM TINFOIL LAND' date='

Rocket himself admitted the HIVE server has gone through multiple hardware changes in the few weeks it has been running. Splitting the load in early May would of been a smart move; less cash in bandwidth and hardware failures. This isn't even thinking about the THOUSANDS of people wanting multiple characters. I feel DayZ as a DEV team needs to either support this idea but make sure its kept in-house/limited, or make it clear that it isn't supported so we can stop hoping and start making our own communities with our HIVE servers and stay incredibly private/rogue. I'd rather it be supported and official. I won't say I'll never play official again but the response I've gotten from this server is pretty staggering and I've had to order a large dedicated server to handle the traffic volume. The same people keep coming back tooo so it's not hard to tell that they just simply do not like the official servers.

thanks for the response!

- Make a guess regarding the bandwidth, but before you do keep in mind that simple strings don't take up a lot of bandwidth ;).

- Adding multichars wouldn't even be hard in a single DB system (kinda like the male/female option you'd chose between characters). The problem is that DayZ is about surviving at all times, not about getting your Rangefinder+AS50 out only when your 49 buddies are with you to hunt down some zombie AI at a distance of 800m.

I really appreciate the feedback to the original post. I'm not here to stir shit just to inspire a better game. I will read more into the situation before I comment on staff/dev activities from now on :)

I know multiple characters wouldn't be hard on a single database but then you are adding more data transfer to an already dire situation. Each character would need a new inventory, correct? You could use seperation of the same column to store multiple fields (basically what is done with inventory; it's one column for the entire inventory, instead of one column for each slot) but as I said you'd be just adding more to a sinking boat. There will be a point when data usage plateaus and it finally becomes stable, but then you won't be prepared for the costs on the server upkeep down the road etc. It's a vicious cycle. The best solution is to properly size and economically plan. It is much cheaper currently for 4, 10TB a month dedicated servers than it is for one large cluster able to handle the bandwidth demand. It would also decrease lag on servers by keeping it local like I mentioned before. The most EFFICIENT setup would to have the most popular server providers host the HIVE servers, as any server purchased with that provider would have amazing speed if networked correctly.

I run my HIVE locally I really couldn't tell you how much data because I can't even take my simple figure and multiply it for a rough estimation. When I did run it non-local it used trivial amounts of data, enough I never recorded it. I will admit the game server amount of TB's needed is pretty shocking; it is a hungry beast! I'll take a stab and say you probably use a good 500 gb on a weekend day. Even worse is when it crashes and everyone is plowing the one server you just rebooted, effectively DDOSing it unless you have it set up efficiently (which by now you guys should have after the DDOS attack).

P.S. Some people want to play the game the way you are referring to but they still need to learn. I have so many people join Nonhive just to play with their new friends so they don't lose their precious loot and can now afford to die a few times teaching a new player. It sounds silly that they want to keep their loot on the official server but they have clans they play with and cannot risk losing it all teaching a friend to play for an hour or two. they can't learn in a single player mod either. Some users simply claimed they wanted to have two characters to have two personalities.

[Vipeax 318]

Uh, you are far too high, the gameserver bandwidth is high, the Hive? My ISP from when I was 10 had enough upload on it's home connection. callExtension only allows up to 4KB transactions. The loading of a character is by far the longest and biggest when it comes to data and is still obviously below 4KB. The queries are also really simple and it takes me <0.2 second to get the data back from any query, and that's with a latency of 160~170ms due to my location from the Hive. I don't know where you get your figures from, but the Hive is almost sleeping and at times seem to wish it actually had work and load to deal with as it would almost enter standby mode at this point.

[fenrix 9]

yeah I just want dayz to be a better game. as a modder. I see the best way this happening is to open it up and let me tinker with it without being shouted at and banned :P

but Im bias. what with being a modder/developer myself. proof? http://steamcommunity.com/id/theoriginalfenrix/screenshot/594701250460137578/?tab=public shush I like zombies too!

I know what I would do. I would introduce an independant version but have it set on a different island than chernarus and have the database as local. then you have your sandboxy open one and your closed main one. I bet in a very short period of time the majority of server owners and players would switch over.

players thirst for new experiences over anything else. allowing users to modify thier experience guarantees the mod longevity.

while it does open it up to all kinds of shenanigans. you can take steps to protect it if your willing to give it a shot. thats what alpha is all about. trying new things after all.

[rinaun 26]

I don't know where you get your figures from' date=' but the Hive is almost sleeping and at times seem to wish it actually had work and load to deal with as it would almost enter standby mode at this point.

[/quote']

Like I said, my HIVE server is done locally so for me to do a calculation correctly is a bit hard. The game server; I was simply referring to arma II and how it sucks a crazy amount of data for the amount of players and the game itself. I wouldn't be amazed at all if it's sleeping; it's MYSQL not folding@home :s

I know loading the character is the hardest because I just ended up having to migrate from people hammering it when I would reboot to test new fixes. :-/

You sound awfully confident in the HIVE server considering it was being slammed a few days ago, and rocket wasn't shy about admitting this isnt even the second time the hardware has been replaced. you also seem confident in the ability to make the HIVE servers self-sufficient in funding. When HIVE gets DDOSed again all day, will every single server just stay down for as long as it takes for them to stop or what? that is basically what happened just a short time ago. Took all day.

[Vipeax 318]

When was the hardware replaced? And when did he say that? Being slammed by a DDoS kinda overloards any server...

[rinaun 26]

yeah I just want dayz to be a better game. as a modder. I see the best way this happening is to open it up and let me tinker with it without being shouted at and banned :P

but Im bias. what with being a modder/developer myself. proof? http://steamcommunity.com/id/theoriginalfenrix/screenshot/594701250460137578/?tab=public shush I like zombies too!

I won't hide that I mod as well. Before this I was doing some work on some unity3d games but I found this game, saw the many flaws and OCD kicked in :P

[fenrix 9]

wouldnt it be relatively easy to put some kind of downtime protection in place and have servers revert to a local system if they couldnt get to the database instead of locking everyone out?