Why I hate PvP in DayZ

[Slev 0]

This isn't a general, pvp is pointless, etc. thread. This is the core reason why I don't like pvp. Today I was in elektro, I knew the risks and I was ready to die. I was in the supermarket and encountered another player. I quickly raised my 1911 and fired four shots in to his chest. Then, he took 5 steps forward, hit me with an axe. I fell over and died. Server log reads out

Slev was killed.

"Guy I shot" was killed.

I shot first, did everything right, but still died. It's not that I don't enjoy pvp or dayz, but it gets frustrating when you do it right, but still die.

[Rakkasan 23]

He was hopped up on Mountain Dew, nothing you could do.

[imagelesskjc 35]

Today I was in elektro' date=' I knew the risks and I was ready to die...

... I shot first, did everything right, but still died.

[/quote']

Looks like you weren't ready to die...

[AlfalphaCat 66]

Haha, you were killed by realism. :P

[Slev 0]

Well, I didn't want to die, if you'd prefer I put it that way.

I loled, alfa, but realistically, a .45 at that range doesn't suggest someone should stop, it usually has the affect of "death", arma must just be too realism.

[omgwtfbbq (DayZ) 1069]

i think the worst part of PvP is when you spend hours getting a stable amount of food, water, supplies, and ammo, and then some fucking jackass decides to shoot you with their only incentive being that they have a gun and want to kill someone, so you lose your hours of work in a few seconds not because you messed up, but some other little shit decided to ruin your fun. i wish there was some way to counter this :(

[corruptshadow 4]

Adrenaline is strong it can keep a person moving even after sustaining mortal wounds?

[Slev 0]

Not with the .45, it was originally adopted by the army to kill filipino islanders on a psyclobin derivative because the .38 wasn't cutting it.

[Miss_Nuts 9]

I actually dont mind losing hours/days worth of careful looting only to lose it to a random KOS'er.

But what I find sad is, an actual sad way, is that IF the player didn't decided to shoot on sight, and IF I hadn't felt the urgent requirement to reciprocate the bullets in the groin situation, we might have both got out alive, no worse off and maybe even better off.

Instead, human greed and fear made us kill each other and we both ended up with nothing.

Sad.

[Slev 0]

I'd much prefer not to shoot on sight, but I've met far too many players who say over local, "I'm friendly don't shoot." I hold my fire and then the person puts multiple bullets in to my body.

[Naykon (DayZ) 25]

this is more of a lag issue,

4 rounds from a .45 to the chest would bring down a horse. You certainly wouldn't be swinging any axes no matter how doped up you were.

[Slev 0]

Yeah, I do my best to always attack from corners now, so I can put the shots in, the dash behind the corner before the return fire happens. Just earned an akm in cherno.

[StoneColdSteve 52]

pvp is the best part of this game. i have never played another game that gives me the same feeling as when i see another player in dayz.

[Maderas 12]

Adrenaline is strong it can keep a person moving even after sustaining mortal wounds?

Large caliber handguns were designed for the explicit purpose of incapacitating charging enemies through hydrostatic shock. It doesn't matter how much adrenaline is in your body if you take 3-4 shots in the chest that liquify your heart and lungs.

[Snapalapagus 2]

Haha' date=' you were killed by realism. :P

[/quote']

Yeah but if it's realism to be talked about, I'm pretty sure 4 shots to the chest would kill someone before he got close range and killed you with an axe. unless that guy is hopped up on some bam bam that only Tony Montana himself would ingest.

Edit: Not to mention some very severe pain and possible suffocation of the gunshot victim, rendering them unable to stay upright, let alone attack someone with an axe.

[lodestar 3]

this is more of a lag issue' date='

4 rounds from a .45 to the chest would bring down a horse. You certainly wouldn't be swinging any axes no matter how doped up you were.

[/quote']

It would probably bring down anyone given some time, but unless a shot damages the central nervous system, immediate incapacitation is more due to psychological effects.

It's surely annoying in a game, but there are countless cases in real life where people, especially when they are high or very excited, continued to act and reacted after being shot several times.

[red_orchestra@msn.com 112]

PvP sucks when you die.

[lodestar 3]

Adrenaline is strong it can keep a person moving even after sustaining mortal wounds?

Large caliber handguns were designed for the explicit purpose of incapacitating charging enemies through hydrostatic shock. It doesn't matter how much adrenaline is in your body if you take 3-4 shots in the chest that liquify your heart and lungs.

Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong in everything you said.

First, hydrostatic shock is supposed to happen when the kinetic energy from a high speed projectile is transferred to the body, and ammo designed to improve this effect are actually lighter and faster. Large caliber handguns are advocated by those who disagree with the hydrostatic shock theory of incapacitation, since larger bullets cause larger wounds, more chance of hitting the central nervous system and larger bleeding leading to faster loss of blood pressure. That's the main reason why the FBI replaced the .357 with the 10mm and then the .40 S&W, following events after the 1986 Miami shootout.

Second, hydrostatic shock is mostly a myth, exploited by ammo manufacters (the name Hydra Shock rings a bell?), and has no serious basis on reality. There are some therapeutic techniques which use much higher pressure waves than those created by bullets, with no noticeable effect ocurring, and nothing even remotely resembling the so called hydrostatic shock. The closest thing to hydrostatic shock that actually happens on terminal ballistics is when a high speed bullet hits an organ with low elasticity and the temporary cavity formed by the bullet passage can stretch that organ beyond its limits. The only way to guarantee immediate incapacitation is to cause damage to the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord). Other than that, incapacitation is subject to psychological factors and unsconsciousness due to loss of blood pressure.

Third, even if it was the case and a bullet could "liquify" someone's heart and lungs, that doesn't guarantee immediate incapacitation. Even if heart and lungs are completely desintegrated by some magical weapon, if that person is high or very excited, he can react for a few seconds and there are a number of cases where that happened. There are countless cases where a person is hit with more than a dozen bullets on the chest, and still reacts and even puts up a fight. There was a case where a 18 year old guy high on marijuana fighting 3 FBI agents on a 20 feet range was hit 17 times by 5.56mm rounds from an M4 and .40S&W from a Glock 22 and not only returned fire for a few minutes, but also put up a fight when was finally subdued and handcuffed!

So, you wanna shoot someone with a gun or a melee weapon and not risk getting shot back at? Either a headshot, or don't stop shooting him on the chest until you are sure he's not moving. In DayZ and in real life too.

[robosheriff 13]

Adrenaline is strong it can keep a person moving even after sustaining mortal wounds?

Large caliber handguns were designed for the explicit purpose of incapacitating charging enemies through hydrostatic shock. It doesn't matter how much adrenaline is in your body if you take 3-4 shots in the chest that liquify your heart and lungs.

Sorry' date=' but you are absolutely wrong in everything you said.

First, hydrostatic shock is supposed to happen when the kinetic energy from a high speed projectile is transferred to the body, and ammo designed to improve this effect are actually lighter and faster. Large caliber handguns are advocated by those who disagree with the hydrostatic shock theory of incapacitation, since larger bullets cause larger wounds, more chance of hitting the central nervous system and larger bleeding leading to faster loss of blood pressure. That's the main reason why the FBI replaced the .357 with the 10mm and then the .40 S&W, following events after the 1986 Miami shootout.

Second, hydrostatic shock is mostly a myth, exploited by ammo manufacters (the name Hydra Shock rings a bell?), and has no serious basis on reality. There are some therapeutic techniques which use much higher pressure waves than those created by bullets, with no noticeable effect ocurring, and nothing even remotely resembling the so called hydrostatic shock. The closest thing to hydrostatic shock that actually happens on terminal ballistics is when a high speed bullet hits an organ with low elasticity and the temporary cavity formed by the bullet passage can stretch that organ beyond its limits. The only way to guarantee immediate incapacitation is to cause damage to the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord). Other than that, incapacitation is subject to psychological factors and unsconsciousness due to loss of blood pressure.

Third, even if it was the case and a bullet could "liquify" someone's heart and lungs, that doesn't guarantee immediate incapacitation. Even if heart and lungs are completely desintegrated by some magical weapon, if that person is high or very excited, he can react for a few seconds and there are a number of cases where that happened. There are countless cases where a person is hit with more than a dozen bullets on the chest, and still reacts and even puts up a fight. There was a case where a 18 year old guy high on marijuana fighting 3 FBI agents on a 20 feet range was hit 17 times by 5.56mm rounds from an M4 and .40S&W from a Glock 22 and not only returned fire for a few minutes, but also put up a fight when was finally subdued and handcuffed!

So, you wanna shoot someone with a gun or a melee weapon and not risk getting shot back at? Either a headshot, or don't stop shooting him on the chest until you are sure he's not moving. In DayZ and in real life too.

[/quote']

IM pretty sure it 's just lag, you should fall in 2-3 shots in the body

[septuscap 42]

Is anyone taking into account that players in DayZ have bulletproof vests?

[Slev 0]

Septus, at anything under 30 meters bulletproof vests provide minimal protection. Even if the rounds don't penetrate, the force will break ribs and incapacitate. The thing is, the .45 has the kind of stopping power that overcome adrenaline, taking a round from it at under 10m will knock you completely back in addition to killing you.

It's lag, it sucks, but it happens.

[vaalea (DayZ) 3]

Is anyone taking into account that players in DayZ have bulletproof vests?

Huh? I thought that was a hunting-vest of some sort. You know, for ammo and stuff?

Anhow, I've noticed that same thing. I once sprayed a man full of bullets, and he still had time to move around at fire a shot or two. It seems like when it comes to fighting, the lag becomes a little more obvious.

[Electrolyte 4]

The fellow with the hatchet does not enjoy being shot. Be wary of him.

[septuscap 42]

Huh? I thought that was a hunting-vest of some sort. You know' date=' for ammo and stuff?

Anhow, I've noticed that same thing. I once sprayed a man full of bullets, and he still had time to move around at fire a shot or two. It seems like when it comes to fighting, the lag becomes a little more obvious.

[/quote']

I assumed it was bulletproof because otherwise I simply can't explain how it can take multiple clips from a makarov to bring some one down in a "mil sim."

Septus' date=' at anything under 30 meters bulletproof vests provide minimal protection. Even if the rounds don't penetrate, the force will break ribs and incapacitate. The thing is, the .45 has the kind of stopping power that overcome adrenaline, taking a round from it at under 10m will knock you completely back in addition to killing you.

It's lag, it sucks, but it happens.

[/quote']

I've no real knowledge of guns, but if it were lag then why does a headshot still insta-kill?

[lodestar 3]

Septus' date=' at anything under 30 meters bulletproof vests provide minimal protection. Even if the rounds don't penetrate, the force will break ribs and incapacitate. The thing is, the .45 has the kind of stopping power that overcome adrenaline, taking a round from it at under 10m will knock you completely back in addition to killing you.

[/quote']

Broken ribs do not incapacitate, quite the opposite. Actually, the rush of adrenaline, pain and panic that follows a fracture often makes the injured even more dangerous. Even civilian self-defense classes often teach people to immobilize some aggressor only to the point he feels pain enough to be hold in place. If you push too far, you'll break something and the hold won't be as effective.

You've been watching a lot of movies, kid... a 200gr .45 ACP would have around 700J energy leaving the muzzle. Assuming you're shooting a 70kg person at point blank, that's not even 1/5 of what is needed to knock him back, even considering he's at rest, and I'm plainly ignoring the fact that most of that energy is used for bullet penetration and a very small fraction of it actually gets transferred as momentum.

For a bullet to knock back an human target by momentum transfer only, the recoil itself would also have the same energy and knock back the shooter too. That's plain physics.

---

This is funny... some people complain about realism in a game ballistics model, but their reference for reality on this most often are movies and other games and many of them probably never shot a gun not even in a shooting range, and certainly not against a living target.

I've studied terminal ballistics and I think the Arma 2 engine is as realist as it can be for a game which still aims to be fun. DayZ isn't as realist. DayZ zombies shouldn't be incapacitated immediately by anything but a headshot, since they feel no pain, and even after being shot several times they should still be able to move around until their blood pressure is down. Other than running around like crazy, their infection doesn't affect their reaction to being shot at all, which really wouldn't be the case in reality.

In reality people don't fly from windows when they get shot, like in old westerns, they don't get incapacitated immediately and guaranteed from being shot in the chest by anything smaller than a .50, and many times they don't even realize they were shot if there'a a rush of adrenaline.