Trading post creation

[oktyabr 53]

Assemble a trading post from three or four items. Once assembled it might appear as some larger tents with a campfire in the middle of them or similar. Keep active by adding fuel to fire every few hours, etc. Fire must be kept burning but does not require constant supervision. Fire goes out so does the non-PVP properties of the zone. Parts can only be disassembled and moved once fire is out.

Acts as a temporary non-PVP zone, about the size of a city block. Bullets fired in the zone (or into/out of) the zone do no damage to players but still kill zombies. Players approaching trading post zone will be informed of "non-PVP zone" status when they cross the zone border.

This makes a safe place to trade items, get transfusions (if anyone has any blood), meet with friends and maybe form new groups. A bandit with enough blood would do well to set up a transfusion station there ;)

A more advanced version would have only one or two entrances and the players who set up the trading zone could charge admission (drop anything down to get in that isn't a flare or lit chemlight).

[norton86 0]

I will enjoy camping outside the zone killing those who exit :D

[oktyabr 53]

I will enjoy camping outside the zone killing those who exit :D

They will enjoy hunting you as well. Watch your back! Not everyone is leaving such a zone :D

[super pretendo 2]

I disagree with an artifical friendly fire off option. One of the important things is having to not standing in front of eachother when fighting zombies. But I think there should be something like a trading post/camp/habitation you can do it buildings to prevent zombies from respawning on top of the place you claim, so you realistically can only be threatened from outside.

[Freyar 8]

I believe any trade ought to have the risk of it going south. The tension in these types of things are what makes every interaction a worry. Hell, go watch Firefly when Captain Reynolds deals with Patience on Whitefall.

[oktyabr 53]

A serious trading system will never happen in this mod without some sort of PVP protection. Ask Norton there, two posts above you, what he would do if he saw a bunch of players gathered together trading valuables *without* a PVP-zone. At least my idea makes the players work to get it established and to keep it. Isn't that better than the permanent non-PVP zones others are suggesting?

[super pretendo 2]

Theres ways around it besides hurr friendly fire disabled. Easier ways to identify people that shoot someone is a good idea, like a change in appearance, or if they are in very close range, a glow around them so you know who to shoot at.

[Freyar 8]

Theres ways around it besides hurr friendly fire disabled. Easier ways to identify people that shoot someone is a good idea' date=' like a change in appearance, or if they are in very close range, a glow around them so you know who to shoot at.

[/quote']

We've already got that to some degree (though it will take a few revisions to make it better).

[oktyabr 53]

A glow around them?!?!?

[Murphy (DayZ) 1]

It would relieve a lot of the stress of dealing with trading/helping other players if we had a neutral zone where weapons are automatically holstered or players are given protection against aggressors.

There is a "bandit" skin that shows you who the PvPers are, even though it may be buggy it does give everyone fair warning as to who is friendly and who has malicious intentions.

[oktyabr 53]

The player created "trading zone" as I have described it would not be permanent, would not be confined to any pre-determined area on the map, would give all players a non-pvp zone to meet up, trade goods, get healed, etc. and now that steps are being taken to prevent disconnecting to avoid death, a safe place to disconnect from (even though it may no longer be there when you rejoin later on).

Again, either three or four components required or perhaps based on the basic camping site... a lit fire and more than one tent in the same area with an extra component to define it as a free trade zone?

I see this as a way to help re-balance game play.

[HannesFury 0]

The only way I see a feature of this fashion being believable, is if a certain confined area such as the inside of a building is coded to make weapons ( or perhaps more easily, any item ) completely unequipable. Another solution is that the innards of ones inventory needs to be stored in a "check-point" to go further. Naturally, there would be no way of firing into this area with any type of ease or even at all, due to the way this compound would be isolated from the areas surrounding it.

Just making PVP damage non-existent would just simply ruin the overall immersion whenever someone Does use weapons where this area would be, because there'll always be annoying little griefer pricks that are gonna be obnoxious.

That's my shot at this.

[oktyabr 53]

The only way I see a feature of this fashion being believable' date=' is if a certain confined area such as the inside of a building is coded to make weapons ( or perhaps more easily, any item ) completely unequipable. Another solution is that the innards of ones inventory needs to be stored in a "check-point" to go further. Naturally, there would be no way of firing into this area with any type of ease or even at all, due to the way this compound would be isolated from the areas surrounding it.

Just making PVP damage non-existent would just simply ruin the overall immersion whenever someone Does use weapons where this area would be, because there'll always be annoying little griefer pricks that are gonna be obnoxious.

That's my shot at this.

[/quote']

Good points.

I don't much care for the added realism of using a building because then you are limited on access points which in turn makes it much easier to create kill zones for bandits on the outside waiting for shoppers to carry out "their" new loot. It also restricts the location of said trade zones to a very limited number of buildings as well as implies permanence.

I know my idea requires the use of non-realism to work but it's based on the concept of non-pvp zones that has been used in countless MMO's and other shooters too... for a good reason. I'm not saying it's realistic. I'm saying that the benefit for game balance might be worth it.

[Freek314 32]

The entire popularity of this mod hinges on its portrayal of realistic scenarios. You're not helping by compromising that.

[Freyar 8]

Any system-enforced peace would be damaging to the nature of the mod, I think. If you want a "safe" place to trade, you're going to have to make sure you have the people, the skill, and the ammunition to do it.

[naizarak 41]

doesn't make sense to have an artificially-imposed no PVP zone. if you want a safe trading zone then your group will have to enforce security themselves

[warpoet 2]

To all of the people talking about how this "breaks the realism" and how players have to "enforce" security on their own:

Have you ever played an open-world, full-loot PvP game before? It never happens. It only works with coded protection from PvP. Period.

You are coming to trade. That means you are taking the time to gather the supplies you are going to trade, the person you are trading with has done the same, and you are transporting it to the site of the meeting. You are putting all of that time and effort on the line.

The a-hole who is going to camp the meeting area and kill you? He's risking nothing. All he needs is an Enfield or a Winchester. Hell, maybe even a pistol will cut it if he's lucky. The point is: the amount of risk he is taking is extremely low compared to the potential rewards for killing you. If he's unsuccessful? That's fine. He just needs to respawn, find another weapon and try again. He could be back at it in 20 minutes. Why shouldn't he? He's not risking anything - but you are.

In a real-world apocalypse, a trading post with self-enforced security would be feasible. It would have dedicated, full-time guards, the protection of the community, and the knowledge that attacking it would render anyone who did so permanently dead.

This is not such a situation, even though the game has made great efforts to emulate one.

If a centralized trading area is created without hardcoded protection from PvP, it will be overrun by opportunistic PK'ers and fail immediately. I guarantee it.

[Bernardusaurus 2]

To all of the people talking about how this "breaks the realism" and how players have to "enforce" security on their own:

Have you ever played an open-world' date=' full-loot PvP game before? [b']It never happens. It only works with coded protection from PvP. Period.

You are coming to trade. That means you are taking the time to gather the supplies you are going to trade, the person you are trading with has done the same, and you are transporting it to the site of the meeting. You are putting all of that time and effort on the line.

The a-hole who is going to camp the meeting area and kill you? He's risking nothing. All he needs is an Enfield or a Winchester. Hell, maybe even a pistol will cut it if he's lucky. The point is: the amount of risk he is taking is extremely low compared to the potential rewards for killing you. If he's unsuccessful? That's fine. He just needs to respawn, find another weapon and try again. He could be back at it in 20 minutes. Why shouldn't he? He's not risking anything - but you are.

In a real-world apocalypse, a trading post with self-enforced security would be feasible. It would have dedicated, full-time guards, the protection of the community, and the knowledge that attacking it would render anyone who did so permanently dead.

This is not such a situation, even though the game has made great efforts to emulate one.

If a centralized trading area is created without hardcoded protection from PvP, it will be overrun by opportunistic PK'ers and fail immediately. I guarantee it.

It's not like this is a 'full-loot' game. Everyone can find ammo and supplies easily on their own. There's no point to having a trading post in the first place. Unless to find someone to transfuse you.

Plus, if you're looking to trade with someone, you need to understand the risk you're taking by meeting them.

A more realistic approach would be if one city was designated by the community as a bandit haven and one as a survivor haven WITH NO DESIGNATION OR RESTRICTION INGAME. If a lone bandit came to the survivor city, they'd be obliterated. If you're looking to trade, head into the survivor city and find someone. But have no restriction on the ability to shoot someone if you felt like it, but there'd be no point because you'd be mowed down by the rest of the survivors there.

[oktyabr 53]

You just named one reason to have a trading post. How often do transfusions really happen between strangers?

Your idea of "havens" is a good one but it will never, ever happen in a game like this. The only way any sort of trade will ever happen on a larger scale is with some sort of artificially introduced safety like I have described. Most games use a *permanent* non-pvp zone (or the other side of the coin... PVP zones). Mine is non-permanent, non-persistent and not forced by the game. Just because the three or four parts needed to make it happen exist doesn't mean anyone will ever take the time or trouble to do it.

[Bernardusaurus 2]

That's the one reason it would be useful for. But it's not hard to find someone to give you blood.

I know the 'haven's' wouldn't work. I was saying that that would probably be the best, natural, non-system enforced way to go.

In any case, rocket already said he isn't restricting PVP. It's part of his mod.

[warpoet 2]

A more realistic approach would be if one city was designated by the community as a bandit haven and one as a survivor haven WITH NO DESIGNATION OR RESTRICTION INGAME. If a lone bandit came to the survivor city' date=' they'd be obliterated. If you're looking to trade, head into the survivor city and find someone. But have no restriction on the ability to shoot someone if you felt like it, but there'd be no point because you'd be mowed down by the rest of the survivors there.

[/quote']

Won't work. How are you going to stop bandits from entering survivortown? Players are not going to sit and play sentry.

Does the OP's idea really add a whole lot? Debatable. I'm just saying that without coded PvP restrictions, it'd be pointless.

[naizarak 41]

Dayz is all about player-freedom and choice, we don't need artificially imposed "safe" zones. If you want a trading post, you have to secure it yourself - that's how trade works in real life, too.

[Dustfallen 2]

Dayz is all about player-freedom and choice' date=' we don't need artificially imposed "safe" zones. If you want a trading post, you have to secure it yourself - that's how trade works in real life, too.

[/quote']

Yes, but I believe the point they are making is that in real life this wouldn't happen for fear of one's own life being taken. Something that is not going to happen for griefing PKers who can respawn immediately with no ill effects.

The need for these artificial things in games is brought about because no one can simulate the true fear of death in an online game that exists in real life.

Not saying i agree we need it, just trying to explain their point a bit more clearly.

[oktyabr 53]

Yes' date=' but I believe the point they are making is that in real life this wouldn't happen for fear of one's own life being taken. Something that is not going to happen for griefing PKers who can respawn immediately with no ill effects.

The need for these artificial things in games is brought about because no one can simulate the true fear of death in an online game that exists in real life.

Not saying i agree we need it, just trying to explain their point a bit more clearly.

[/quote']

Exactly.

I posted my idea full well knowing rocket's stance on PVP and how it might be accepted by much of the community, regardless. I am actually a firm believer that "taking away realism to fix realism never works" but in some cases it's the *only* thing left to do. IF players want a really organized trade system it will require some compromises to be made.

If I had to choose between permanent no-PVP zones or a temporary one that had to be constructed I would prefer the latter.

[Land Squid 22]

If I might suggest something other than no-PVP zones....

Why not survivor NPC guards?

Okay, you have a designated trading post. That's nice. Now it also has some guard towers and such, and while you are absolutely free to PK there if you so desire, the result is that if the guards see you kill someone they will flag you as hostile and in turn try to kill you if possible (say, if you PK someone with 500-1000 meters of the TP). This way you do get an established commerce system in the game, while also keeping the realistic freedom of choice, but coupled with the actual consequences you would see in real life (aside, of course, from permanent death).

ETA: By the by, I don't think I made it clear that death isn't a certainty. If you manage to get enough bandits together it should be feesable to pick off the NPC guards with your choice of tactics and raiding the TP, but it would be highly improbable for bandits to do it all onesey-twosey's like.

By the by, another aspect of the TP I think should be addressed is where the goods are coming from. Personally I think only stuff brought in by players should be available for sale. Say you scavenge a couple DMR mags and an extra compass. But those are useless for you since you use a Winchester and already have a compass. Take those to the TP and sell them to the merchant there for X currency, then if someone else has sold some winchester shells there that you can use, you can buy those from the merchant.

As to player setup trading posts: My clan was doing something similar with tents, we were storing extra gear in a secure location for the use of clan-mates. The problem we ran into however was A: tents are not currently persistant over server restarts and B: the limited ammount of stuff you can stash in the tent (cram too much in and it starts spilling out onto the ground). It would be nice if there were some storage crates in game that we could haul to our base camp and set down which has enhanced capacity and restart-persistance, kind of a group share box. Or, of course, just making tents restart-persistant and perhaps able to hold more? :P Also a small request for tents: Being able to label them so you know which belongs to whom or what it's supposed to contain if you have several in one encampment.