Survivor/bandit/militia skins

[zuel 1]

(Not sure if it's been suggested yet - I've scanned a few pages of the forum and not seen it so far. If it has, count this as a vote in its favour.)

Auto bandit skinning is an excellent device to improve the cooperative dynamics in the game, if properly implemented.

I'd like to add to this mechanic by suggesting a third skin: militia. This is the opposite of bandit, representing someone with high levels of humanity, i.e. someone who has killed several bandits without murdering.

Certainly, it'd be difficult to achieve, but it would strongly signal that someone is a trustworthy cooperator in-game. It would also make them a high profile target for bandits, adding to the fun.

Background: I happen to be a philosopher of biology studying the evolutionary dynamics of cooperation, and signalling is a powerful device enabling populations to rise above the Nash equilibrium of mutual defection (i.e. the rampant shoot-on-sight mentality we see at the moment).

Reputation is one very effective way of signalling trustworthiness and enabling indirect reciprocity and cooperation. Skinning seems a great way of facilitating that, but at the moment we only have two modalities (if the feature ever returns): 'neutral' and 'hostile'. Adding a third for 'friendly' would significantly improve cooperation.

It would also give 'good' players something to aim for, as receiving the militia skin would encourage others to team with them, particularly other militia, making them more effective than running solo.

Thoughts?

[Womb Raider 92]

There are friendly people, you just haven't found them yet. There is a lot of whinging and complaining on these forums about people shooting on sight, but to be honest it's not hard to avoid being shot by another survivor, if you are cautious.

[zuel 1]

You really read that suggestion as a whinge about finding friendly players? Really?

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

(Not sure if it's been suggested yet - I've scanned a few pages of the forum and not seen it so far. If it has' date=' count this as a vote in its favour.)[/quote']

Search function, right underneath the DayZ logo. That'll help you a lot.

[zantiago 119]

I agree with this...

I want the bandit skin back, and so do most people..

Im not sure what they were thinking when they removed it..

"it add's to fun" or something along those lines is what i have seen..

Add's to what fun?

Turning the game into an open world BF3 with added abilities, and realistic elements like hunger, thirst, infection & cold..

Imo they should re implement the bandit skin, because it's sorely missed by the majority of the community im sure, im not sure about any for and against statistics.

Good post mate, even if there are several similar posts regarding skins, this is one of the better formulated ones.

-z

[slimlacy 19]

lol bandit skins where sooooo broken

I got a bandit skin by killing some dude who tried to gun me down, I came out alive, and apparently a cold blooded killer, that was not friendly (sure, I am not the most friendly player, I will more then likely kill you, but by that time, i had never killed anyone before hand, and wasn't raelly going to) Yet i was branded a KoS target for that. And ALLOT of other people had the same problem, even with actually being friendly.

And it completely kills the immersion that you "know" the intentions of someone else.

If you meet at stranger in RL, you do not know by the looks of said person, w/e or not he is going to help you, ignore you, rob you or slaugther you like a pig for fun.

[metal (DayZ) 46]

I want the bandit skin back' date=' and so do most people..

[/quote']

How about you speak just for yourself next time and not for the 'most people'.

A player's clothing should not be magically changed because of his actions. I always welcome more skins: bandit, survivor, militia, soldier, wookie, fisherman, lawyer, mercenary, biker, whatever else. But changing the appearance should be a player's choice, given that he can obtain clothes to change to.

[adamtheheretic 106]

lol bandit skins where sooooo broken

I got a bandit skin by killing some dude who tried to gun me down' date=' I came out alive, and apparently a cold blooded killer, that was not friendly (sure, I am not the most friendly player, I will more then likely kill you, but by that time, i had never killed anyone before hand, and wasn't raelly going to) Yet i was branded a KoS target for that. And ALLOT of other people had the same problem, even with actually being friendly.

And it completely kills the immersion that you "know" the intentions of someone else.

If you meet at stranger in RL, you do not know by the looks of said person, w/e or not he is going to help you, ignore you, rob you or slaugther you like a pig for fun.

[/quote']

You're right to a degree but something else that kills the immersion? Everyone being your exact doppelganger with a different coloured shirt. I don't think immersion can be made for an argument against this while skins don't offer any immersion right now.

I agree with this...

I want the bandit skin back' date=' and so do most people..

Im not sure what they were thinking when they removed it..

"it add's to fun" or something along those lines is what i have seen..

Add's to what fun?

Turning the game into an open world BF3 with added abilities, and realistic elements like hunger, thirst, infection & cold..

Imo they should re implement the bandit skin, because it's sorely missed by the majority of the community im sure, im not sure about any for and against statistics.

Good post mate, even if there are several similar posts regarding skins, this is one of the better formulated ones.

-z

Do I even need to explain where I'm going with this?

[Golgo82 28]

I dont think that this is the way to go, why would someone suddenly look different, because he is a sneaky backstabber/kills sneaky backstabbers?

Besides the fact, that the whole system determining "what you are" would need a *serious* rework:

- recognize returning fire as a non-hostile action

- having the option to forgive friendly fire in squads/teams

- making sure you are unable to circumvent the "murder count" by letting someone bleed out or if a random zombie happens to finish it off

- somehow preventing that a true Serial Killer/Bat-shit-crazy paranoid Survivor who kills anyone on sight but happens to have killed more bandits than survivors and therefore becomes a symbol of trust(militia)

... and so on

too many factors, too much work, too little to gain for either the game or the metagame

TL, DR

nah

[zantiago 119]

Im not speaking for myself, have you even read all the threads about people wanting the bandit skin back?

Yeah i want it back and im not alone.

And really, i can't be bothered about reading the biased opinions about it.

It was implemented poorly, but if the mechanic inwhich you got the skin was improved it would be a good thing to have wouldn't you think?

As an example: if you murder 50survivors then you get the bandit skin, telling people they should be vary arround you..

And as such if you kill 50bandits you end up getting the militia skin, showing people that you are not there to scare them or rob them of theire shinies..

And Slimlacy and Fish, id suggest you read the said part where i state i "DO NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY FOR OR AGAINST STATISTICS" for how many are against the bandit skin or for it.

It removes the point of posting a biased opinion simply because you are against the idea itself, oh and try to be atleast somewhat more friendly, when disagreeing.

Makes you look less like a keyboard warrior chav.

Thank you.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

Rocket has made it clear that Bandit skins were not working well, so he removed them. He's hinted at more skins other than the camo and ghillie being added eventually though, and I agree with such a mindset.

More skins? Yes.

Force of skin-change (labeling) of players because they shot someone? No.

[metal (DayZ) 46]

It removes the point of posting a biased opinion simply because you are against the idea itself' date=' oh and try to be atleast somewhat more friendly, when disagreeing.

[/quote']

Why be friendly to someone who contradicts himself more than once in one post and considers every opinion biased unless it coincides with his own?

[zuel 1]

I frankly don't think the realism argument that skins shouldn't "magically" change holds in this case. The bandit skin is a game mechanic that represents an element that is sorely missing at the moment: the ability to monitor reputation. In reality, we'd likely find other ways to manage reputation. But in the game world, we need to abstract. That's how games work.

Wearing a bandit or militia skin is an example of costly signalling (look it up - useful concept) that can aid in encouraging cooperation in the game. Hence the suggestion.

And of course the mechanic would have to be improved. But that's an implementation problem, which is separate to a discussion about the principle.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

The bandit skin is a game mechanic that represents an element that is sorely missing at the moment: the ability to monitor reputation

Yes, except with the skinning system YOU are not the one monitoring reputation. You're asking the game to DO IT FOR YOU.

A superior system would allow players themselves to recognize individuals, note behaviors, and make their own judgements and classifications.

Read this idea from HardTarget.

One from myself here.

Don't ask the game to observe behaviors and make judgements for you.

Do it yourself.

"Skinning" systems are ugly, require magical intervention on the part of a third-party judge, and are prone to false positives.

Player identification systems are authentic, immersive, player-driven, and any false positives/negatives will be due to the player's own inattention, not an inherent flaw in the code.

Discuss.

[adamtheheretic 106]

Okay so I'll break your quote up into sections...

Im not speaking for myself' date=' have you even read all the threads about people wanting the bandit skin back?

Yeah i want it back and im not alone.

And really, i can't be bothered about reading the biased opinions about it.[/quote']

I have seen some, yes but on those threads there's a general consensus that it's a bad idea... Also because they've been removed people aren't going to post threads entitled "How I like not turning in to a bandit." So just because there are threads on a matter doesn't mean the vocal part of the community should have it's way.

It was implemented poorly' date=' but if the mechanic inwhich you got the skin was improved it would be a good thing to have wouldn't you think?

As an example: if you murder 50survivors then you get the bandit skin, telling people they should be vary arround you..

And as such if you kill 50bandits you end up getting the militia skin, showing people that you are not there to scare them or rob them of theire shinies..

No, I disagree completely. I don't think everyone that kills a shit tonne of people should look a certain way, nor do I think people that help others should look a certain way. Do all murderers look the same to you?

And Slimlacy and Fish' date=' id suggest you read the said part where i state i "DO NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY FOR OR AGAINST STATISTICS" for how many are against the bandit skin or for it.

It removes the point of posting a biased opinion simply because you are against the idea itself, oh and try to be atleast somewhat more friendly, when disagreeing.

Makes you look less like a keyboard warrior chav.

Thank you.

[/quote']

You're right, you don't know the statistics but you specifically say "I want the bandit skin back, and so do most people.."as well as "because it's sorely missed by the majority of the community im sure, im not sure about any for and against statistics." which would imply you know of some statistics but then instantly disclaim it.

Also making me look like a keyboard warrior chav? The point I was trying to make by quoting you last time was that you're trying to create an argument for this mass community when you actually don't know the statistics and admit it yourself. What part of that makes me look like a keyboard warrior chav? I said one sentence to you and it didn't involve a threat about coming to your house or about wearing a burberry cap.

[zuel 1]

@ZedsDeadBaby - I love the idea of player-mediated reputation management. A bottom-up approach like this would clearly be superior to skin morphing. However, if such a system proved too difficult to implement, I still believe skin morphing could work as an effective reputation signalling mechanism. Not the only possible one, but a simple extension to the old system Rocket implemented.