Realism vs keeping new players

[Private Poptarts 23]

I'm not going to quote anymore because then this thread is just gonna turn into the chinese wall of quoted responses or even better, Quote Wars :)

Starting with a meelee weapon wouldn't be that bad idea after all, because let's face it a new player will die pretty quick, axe or no axe. So they would still have to be a little sneaky after all. But would that turn into a big axe hack fest in Cherno/Elektro? I've read something about Makarovs and the cities being worse deathmatch arenas they are now... :angel:

The thing I was referring to with the hopping from easy server to difficult one, was this... There's no good loot on easy servers, just a little bit of basic stuff, so exploiters wouldn't gain anything from hopping from easy to difficult server.

E:

There's is this thing though. Experienced players -could- jump to easy servers to kill noobs. But I doubt they have the will to do that, especially if there's no good loot and limited PVP zones...?

Also, I was referring to the +1 when I said "I'll just leave this here...". FOR YOU TO PICK UP

YOU GET ME?

:D

[aposky 20]

I posted this elsewhere and it kind of brought up the issue ive been having with me and my friends joining the game.

Main problems

1. Very hard surviving without weapon' date=' especially since im an unlucky person in computer games but very lucky in real life. [/quote']

DayZ ain't just zombie shooter game, but survival simulator. Surviving without weapon is part of the game, I'd say very exciting. It shows new players how things should be done: not run and gun, but think what you need to do, plan before you go somewhere and sneak when it's needed. Besides item spawn rate is very high, zombies ain't a problem to avoid them. You can find all what you need to survive in first 30 minutes, including weapons.

However that's quite sad that most of people think that DayZ is only about shooting and weapons.

2. Almost impossible to meet -up without using the on-line maps and re spawning until you get close to ur friends.

Not true. When you respawn you already know where you are (game shows name of location) so you already know where you are. Map is small' date=' running speed is not realistic (it's too fast) and DayZ needs ACE mod to add fatigue system (otherwise you can sprint forever) so you need about 15-30 minutes to get to your buddy.

Also such elements like terrain association, navigation, etc are park of the DayZ. You won't get any sort of HUD to tell you where you need to go. If you add option to spawn next to your buddy, game lost another it's unique feature and there will be no drawback for being lame and dying.

3. Leeway the Mod should still be noob friendly to some extent so new players can join, but also hardcore so all the "hardcore/seasoned players" have fun.

As mentioned earlier game is not difficult if you know what you are doing and think about it. Weapons, food, water, other supplies are almost everywhere and zombies are easy to avoid. Most newcomers also make a huge mistake: they go straight to DayZ and play it. Imho it would be useful for them to play some ArmA 2 tutorials and learn about game and controls first.

4. the makarov and 6 mags' date=' food, water and bandages was one extreme of too much starting resources. Starting with 1 bandage is the opposite extreme. Why not a melee weapon or simply 2 bandages, 1 thing of food, 1 of water/coke. [/quote']

Collecting stuff is part of the game. It makes game a bit more exciting. As mentioned before weapons, food etc are very easy to find.

5. Server difficulty? it doesn't do anything at the moment but perhaps players could have different starts and stat drains (ie food' date='water, blood), easy could be spawning with the makarov and ammo etc, normal a melee and bandages, hard/"core" could be spawning with nothing. This could also be applied to the PVP aspects ie easy no pvp or maybe only inland, normal pvp but not along coastal/main spawn areas (to encourage the making of teams), Hard full pvp with spawn killing etc.server data could hold a different save for each difficulty option[/quote']

The only difference is in details showed on players HUD and FPP/TPP.

That what you are asking might be fine for other zombie shooters. DayZ is survival simulator and that's why it is so popular.

I'm also not fan of splitting community between normal players and those who want to play game as easy as possible. Sorry but this game requires balls, and not all suppose to survive zombie apocalypse. Play smart.

6. I really like this mod and i think it could be so much more massive' date=' maybe even a game in itself ($$). and its made by a kiwi!![/quote']

This mod is so popular because it's so different and unique compared to other zombie games. If you dumb down gameplay, add mainstream elements it loose it's character and become another Dead Island/Left4Dead/Killing Floor/etc.

So the issue is this where to draw the line' date=' do we want realism of Fewer guns more food etc, but more intelligent post apocalypse survivors or more hardcore with much fewer new players joining the mod due to the difficulty of surviving up to 33 minutes? [/quote']

Smart survivors survive 14 days or more. It's how good you are at game. It should encourage you to play better, become a DayZ survivor,

[DamKoVosh 0]

I dont even know why u want to have a weapon so bad, if u go into a town you cant use it anyway. and if you are followed by zombies, just go into knee, walk a few steps further, and they go to the last place where they heared you, this obviosly doesnt work if ther to close, but already got me out of a lot of dangerous situations.

if you want to make it easyer for noobs but want it to stay hard for the rest, just make the normal food and drink suply easy to archiv, and danger the citys up.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

You may want to do some research first. he actually didn't say hardcore exactly just they felt the start was too easy for experienced players and they wondered if removing the weapon would force teamwork' date=' which it hasn't, so the original intent was all about weapons.[/quote']

Tells me to do research.

Provides no evidence that he has done any himself.

How about a link to the posts where he says these things?

Because rocket's original post on the subject mentions neither challenging experienced players nor forced teamwork as reasons for removing the weapon.

Most new players are unlikely to be overly successful at locating a farm building along the coast.

Great! They might learn to get off the fucking coast. Better for them in the long run anyway.

And without any lenience for new players the mod will die

Yes, the mod is well on its way to half a million alpha testers and it's going to "die" because it doesn't serve up success on a silver platter to day one newbies on the bean coast. I love these proclamations of doom because the game is hard. Same shit they said about EVE: Online. Ten years ago.

[Powermolch 3]

This Mod is a few months old, so we were all new players once. And many of us like the learning curve. New players also like the game hard. Heard it recently from 2 new players who just began and have a lot of fun with this mod.

Please stop making fools of new players. New Players are new, thats all. Its no special Race. New Players who like the mod will ecome Vets, New Players who don't liek the mod will go away.

[InversionSR 0]

This Mod is a few months old' date=' so we were all new players once. And many of us like the learning curve. New players also like the game hard. Heard it recently from 2 new players who just began and have a lot of fun with this mod.

Please stop making fools of new players. New Players are new, thats all. Its no special Race. New Players who like the mod will ecome Vets, New Players who don't liek the mod will go away.

[/quote']

LMao yes but you started with a makarov and 6 mags which i think is easy, so you actually had an option to learn to learn. Just because you heard 2 new palyers out of X000 new players doesnt suggest that the game doesnt need any improvement/lenience for new players. You still have to let new players do stuff otherwise they just simply uninstall and leave.

Ignorance isnt bliss!!!

---

You may want to do some research first. he actually didn't say hardcore exactly just they felt the start was too easy for experienced players and they wondered if removing the weapon would force teamwork' date=' which it hasn't, so the original intent was all about weapons.[/quote']

Tells me to do research.

Provides no evidence that he has done any himself.

Niether did you.... you still ahvent posted anythign constructive just a trail of childish insults, this is supposed to be a construcitve forum.

How about a link to the posts where he says these things?

Because rocket's original post on the subject mentions neither challenging experienced players nor forced teamwork as reasons for removing the weapon.

Most new players are unlikely to be overly successful at locating a farm building along the coast.

Great! They might learn to get off the fucking coast. Better for them in the long run anyway.

Ignorance is bliss!!!

And without any lenience for new players the mod will die

Yes, the mod is well on its way to half a million alpha testers and it's going to "die" because it doesn't serve up success on a silver platter to day one newbies on the bean coast. I love these proclamations of doom because the game is hard. Same shit they said about EVE: Online. Ten years ago.

Lols ignorance, LOTS of mods have died Many bigger than this. The simple reality is yes the mod could "survive" for a while off its veteran players, until they get bored, but a steady stream of new players. Imagine if world of warcraft had made it so new players now had to reach lvl 50 to unlock the ability to fight back, the game wouldnt last long as new paleyrs would loose interest

Anyway this isnt contructive go find some other forum to rage about noob etc on as this is supposed to be a constructive forum for the mod and you just seem to want to poke little holes and ignore the original post and the ideas im putting forwards!!

:) have a nice day!

---

I dont even know why u want to have a weapon so bad' date=' if u go into a town you cant use it anyway. and if you are followed by zombies, just go into knee, walk a few steps further, and they go to the last place where they heared you, this obviosly doesnt work if ther to close, but already got me out of a lot of dangerous situations.

if you want to make it easyer for noobs but want it to stay hard for the rest, just make the normal food and drink suply easy to archiv, and danger the citys up.

[/quote']

The original post is not just about a start weapon it also posts a lot of other ideas about spawns and a difficulty scale. Please read the original post.

The last bit does actually fit into my server difficult curve of making different difficulties for different servers to attract different palyers

:)

---

Added a -ME- bit so you can read over my explanations

I posted this elsewhere and it kind of brought up the issue ive been having with me and my friends joining the game.

Main problems

1. Very hard surviving without weapon' date=' especially since im an unlucky person in computer games but very lucky in real life. [/quote']

DayZ ain't just zombie shooter game, but survival simulator. Surviving without weapon is part of the game, I'd say very exciting. It shows new players how things should be done: not run and gun, but think what you need to do, plan before you go somewhere and sneak when it's needed. Besides item spawn rate is very high, zombies ain't a problem to avoid them. You can find all what you need to survive in first 30 minutes, including weapons.

However that's quite sad that most of people think that DayZ is only about shooting and weapons.

-ME- SO this fits with the server difficulty idea, im actually more keen on making it so it gives everyone a chance to learn. Also dayz isnt about shooting zombies in a zombie apocalypse with limited ammo and resources? Finding weapons is based on luck and im sure there are less lucky players than me, also having your only option if your spotted is wither to glitch the zombies or log out seems like a pretty large blunder as far as game play is concerned. I appreciate there are tricks liek finding farm buildings or glitching zombies in towns, but is that what the game should be about either?

2. Almost impossible to meet -up without using the on-line maps and re spawning until you get close to ur friends.

Not true. When you respawn you already know where you are (game shows name of location) so you already know where you are. Map is small' date=' running speed is not realistic (it's too fast) and DayZ needs ACE mod to add fatigue system (otherwise you can sprint forever) so you need about 15-30 minutes to get to your buddy.

Also such elements like terrain association, navigation, etc are park of the DayZ. You won't get any sort of HUD to tell you where you need to go. If you add option to spawn next to your buddy, game lost another it's unique feature and there will be no drawback for being lame and dying.

-ME- LOL yeh for half a second it says on the bottom of the screana dn if you load a online map you may guess where you spawned. ... Doesnt really cover my idea of selecting spawn region or spawning on your friends squad and you still would be navigating after you met your friend, it wouldnt break the game....

Perhaps you should try playing this game with your friends to appreciate the frustrations of tryign to locate them especially if you/them are both new.

3. Leeway the Mod should still be noob friendly to some extent so new players can join, but also hardcore so all the "hardcore/seasoned players" have fun.

As mentioned earlier game is not difficult if you know what you are doing and think about it. Weapons, food, water, other supplies are almost everywhere and zombies are easy to avoid. Most newcomers also make a huge mistake: they go straight to DayZ and play it. Imho it would be useful for them to play some ArmA 2 tutorials and learn about game and controls first.

-ME- Ironically youtube is currently the only way for new players to have a chance if they dont jsut go back to americas aren't or another game. I appreciate your "pro" and have your running roots and know where good places to find weapons etc are but mosts noobs dont... And yes the controls help theres also the options->key bindings or whatever, but this doesn't really help you survive. In a response further down i suggested different difficulties on servers so you can have noob servers with spawn with pistols no pvp= survival based, middle servers melee, pvp. and hard for those who feel really Hardcore.

On reflection your response is more a boast then anything constructive on how to make it so new players can join.

4. the makarov and 6 mags' date=' food, water and bandages was one extreme of too much starting resources. Starting with 1 bandage is the opposite extreme. Why not a melee weapon or simply 2 bandages, 1 thing of food, 1 of water/coke. [/quote']

Collecting stuff is part of the game. It makes game a bit more exciting. As mentioned before weapons, food etc are very easy to find.

-ME- LOL youd still use up ammo, food etc so all this gives you is a bit of a chance to survive your first cock up/zombie horde.

5. Server difficulty? it doesn't do anything at the moment but perhaps players could have different starts and stat drains (ie food' date='water, blood), easy could be spawning with the makarov and ammo etc, normal a melee and bandages, hard/"core" could be spawning with nothing. This could also be applied to the PVP aspects ie easy no pvp or maybe only inland, normal pvp but not along coastal/main spawn areas (to encourage the making of teams), Hard full pvp with spawn killing etc.server data could hold a different save for each difficulty option[/quote']

The only difference is in details showed on players HUD and FPP/TPP.

That what you are asking might be fine for other zombie shooters. DayZ is survival simulator and that's why it is so popular.

I'm also not fan of splitting community between normal players and those who want to play game as easy as possible. Sorry but this game requires balls, and not all suppose to survive zombie apocalypse. Play smart.

-ME- this kinda sounds like a lot more boasting i wouldn't actually play easy as normal has more appeal, but i put it in so the server options would accommodate people who run around shooting cos they balls up the stealth and "hardcore-ness" for those players who are that way inclined. There are lots of different people who are attracted to the mod for different reasons, some want to run around shooting/dying others want to be sneaky, others want to mix it up and others want to shoot unarmed noobs along the beaches at least this way it accommodates a variety of players ... Apparently they wanted to introduce teamwork and still balance it so new players could join and learn to play. this solves these two issues rather well

6. I really like this mod and i think it could be so much more massive' date=' maybe even a game in itself ($$). and its made by a kiwi!![/quote']

This mod is so popular because it's so different and unique compared to other zombie games. If you dumb down gameplay, add mainstream elements it loose it's character and become another Dead Island/Left4Dead/Killing Floor/etc.

-ME- Think you missed the point here by a lot. Im saying keep both hardcore gameplay and make the option to join a easier server so noobs can learn to play!!!! IM not interested in dumbing down gameplay and zombie mods are mainstream they've been around since i was a teenager (bout 10-15 years ago). Each zombie mod/ gam has a unique character i liek the character of zday runnign around limited ammo and weapons, but i fail to see why it has to be exclusive to experienced players who learned to play back when they started with a makarov!!!

So the issue is this where to draw the line' date=' do we want realism of Fewer guns more food etc, but more intelligent post apocalypse survivors or more hardcore with much fewer new players joining the mod due to the difficulty of surviving up to 33 minutes? [/quote']

Smart survivors survive 14 days or more. It's how good you are at game. It should encourage you to play better, become a DayZ survivor,

-ME- http://dayzmod.com/index.php

they put the average time on the webpage LOl its actually dropped, but still its there

-ME- SO hopefully this has helped illuminate some stuff and prevent more dayz is the love of my life and you cant change a thing about him posts, not saying this is one but there are a few.

Hopefulyl this has made some constructive ideas or at least made people think of ways to Improve the game

Sorry if you feel singled out dude but i actually do this to everyone who doesnt make any suggestions about constructive changes

:) hope this doesnt ruin your day

---

I'm not going to quote anymore because then this thread is just gonna turn into the chinese wall of quoted responses or even better, Quote Wars :)

Starting with a meelee weapon wouldn't be that bad idea after all, because let's face it a new player will die pretty quick, axe or no axe. So they would still have to be a little sneaky after all. But would that turn into a big axe hack fest in Cherno/Elektro? I've read something about Makarovs and the cities being worse deathmatch arenas they are now... :angel:

The thing I was referring to with the hopping from easy server to difficult one, was this... There's no good loot on easy servers, just a little bit of basic stuff, so exploiters wouldn't gain anything from hopping from easy to difficult server.

E:

There's is this thing though. Experienced players -could- jump to easy servers to kill noobs. But I doubt they have the will to do that, especially if there's no good loot and limited PVP zones...?

Cheers

Glad you found a few things to agree ona dn gave some constructive points, you can see why i said i hate when people post that way, "wall of chinese" sounds about right.

Yeh im in favour of the melee option as a solution to new players being repetitively killed over their first lives, it doesn't save you from a bandit but will work on zombies. "hack fest"? how as players would have to spot each other chase them and hunt them down while avoiding the horde, i think it would work personally and why loot new players if you already have an axe.

Yeh easy servers would be for players who like survival and dont want to die to pvp vs hardcore survival and pvp, which is pretty impressive to play/witness/die from (accidently ended up in the middle of a 4 v3 the other day). My suggestion is a solution to server hopping which currently happens neway is to make the server that stores inventory store separate saves for the different difficulties.

Neway glad this boiled down to some constructive points

Thanks for posting :)