Where is the .22lr?

[wolfsburg62 66]

Let’s face it, the .22lr round is underestimated. It can be, and is a lethal round. It’s certainly no .45, but it is still a projectile that travels at about 1200 feet per second and can do damage IF the shot is placed correctly. Tell me that a .22 round traveling at speeds faster than the speed of sound (sometimes) will not puncture a human skull. It’s possible that it won’t, but it can. I think this would be a nice addition to the game and add a variety because;

1.) .22 ammo is very small and light, you could carry hundreds in your pockets

2.) Its plentiful, most casual gun owners or farmers are likely to carry it

3.) You wouldn't waste precious ammo killing single zeds with well placed a shot to the head

4.) It’s quiet, I can’t imagine its louder than a suppressed weapon (no such thing as a SILENCED weapon). At least more quiet than large caliber rounds. Why give your position away to everyone and their zeds? This way you can stay unnoticed by bandits & zeds who are not in your immediate vicinity, it also has a smaller muzzle flash if any at all.

It would be perfect for raiding those small towns where there are only a few zeds to clear, you could just post up at 50-100 yards away and quietly snipe zeds in the head one by one. Plus you can use it to hunt small game to cook for food. Not to mention a barn or the casual gun owner would almost always have a .22 on hand. Again, this isn't the powerhouse gun and should not be used in a heavily infested city. But when your out in the country side, hunting, or clearing just a few zeds why waste precious large caliber, loud rounds when you can plink away with your .22 at your leisure?

Just my .02 cents, some people want realism, what’s realism without one of the most popular calibers?:idea:

[dut 21]

You are not alone, other people are thinking the same thing.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2624

Modelling in Arma is complicated so it's pretty awesome that Harry took the time to offer his services I doubt there will be many more volunteers for a while.

[harryzhe 28]

+1 bro. I hope we can see different loadings of the .22 as well. Sound is so important in this game.

[Cattra 1]

+1, I really want this to happen. I am a big fan of .22LR and if we are talking a survival game, its relatively quiet and light. (when compared to something like an SKS or a M1 Carbine)

It would make for a good starting rifle or someone who is more into stalking around and trying to be quiet.

[maxovitsj@gmail.com 4]

I really hope we'll have a(tleast one) .22LR. It's so common and it'd be a good hunting rifle as well.

[GENDERS 3]

+1 support this. Having shot may .22 LR Rifles and a .22 LR Pistol only recently, this would be a worth inclusion.

[Kophka 109]

Actually, there have been soooooo many discussions for so many years about the viability of .22 lr as a zombie round. Bottom line is, it's not a viable round in a traditional zombie scenario (the "headshots only" zombies.) If you take a look at the brain pan of the human skull, you'd see that it's fairly well armored, has inner ridging for strength, and is sloped, especially from the front. In a "traditional" zombie scenario, the only way to reliably penetrate a zombie cranium with a .22lr is from close range (under 20ft) from the side or the top (through the soft spots on the temples and the ear canals). This means you only get one, since the zombie will now be facing you, albeit shambling slowly.

In a "rage zombie" scenario, or against fellow humans (especially the ones wearing thick clothing such as in DayZ) , the .22 lr is all but useless. It just doesn't have the penetration or physical energy to reliably stop something approaching human mass if you don't directly hit a vital organ. In the context of our favorite game, multiple 9mm shots are required to bring something down or stop someone, so what exactly is a .22 lr going to do?

I do love the .22 lr for what it is, and enjoy shooting it. It is a great training and small-game round. In a defensive scenario, the .22 is a great round for indoor or up-close work, where over-penetration and noise are concerns. and yes, it can harm or even kill a human being at a decent range with proper shot placement (through the eye maybe, or into a bare chested persons aorta) ; But to be honest, at anything greater than arms length I'd rather have a 9mmP or even a .380 or makarov.

[Cattra 1]

I would have to disagree with you there Kophka (on the issue of its usefulness, I will agree its fun to shoot mine!), what you do say is true with regards to bullet placement, but a headshot with the .22LR will go through the skull (I mean it can go through a cow skull).

The .22LR is quite underestimated and it is also why it is considered one of the most fatal rounds (from accidents). The penetration patterns are also presented here:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/22LR%2037gr%20HP%20Wound%20Profile.jpg

also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OHXzX8T5ew&feature=related

the .22LR would be a rifle for people who want shot placement and quiet over large damage and a big bang. If you are shooting for the head I think it will be fine and earn its place with the people who are stalking others and know how to aim and also with those trying to not attract much attention from other Z's in the area when taking out the ones ahead with select shots. Making repeat select shots with the .22LR is not that hard due to the light wright and the low recoil, and remember its not about entering and exiting the target, you only have to have it ENTER into the target.

That being said, with your "rage" scenario when discussing combat against humans I will agree that if they are armoured (such as Kevlar or perhaps in the back with a backpack) then it might not be of much use, but if we are talking a shirt and a raincoat then it will not have much effect on the .22lr. It won't be the gun of the PKers but perhaps a few shots of .22 might scare away players and make them question their actions if you fire first, or if you hit, might put them down temporary for you to escape.

[Kophka 109]

I think I took a convoluted way of saying : .22 lr has a very, very low chance of penetrating the sloped bone of a human forehead. From the sides or rear, it's every bit as lethal as a larger round with a shot to the head. There are also reported instances of .22 lr shots penetrating completely through a persons body, and continuing on if they don't hit any bone, even from 100 yards away. If it hits a bone, both bone and bullet are splintered. So yes, it can totally be a lethal round. The point that I wanted to make is that it's not reliable for that use at all. It can be done, but there are much better tools available.

Now, if they put it in, and people want to use it because it's what they have at home IRL, or they think it would be really cool to carry and use, more power to them. I started a petition to bring in the Mosin-Nagant, even though it would be functionally the same as the Enfield. I think MN's are much cooler. Same as to my wanting a civilian pattern M1a (the M14/DMR) just because I LOVE shooting them. It'd be the same thing, but cooler in my eyes.

:)

[Cattra 1]

I like how you think Kophka! (I am a huge Nagant fan, I also think DayZ needs some more semi auto and bolt action (non sniper) rifles to offset this large collection of auto's (SVT-40, SKS, Nagant all have my support!))

But I think it all comes down to a person personal play style. I will agree with you that if you are going out looking for a fight head on that the .22Lr might not be your arm of choice, but if you are ambushing, trying to just down someone to get away, shooting in a large infested area and wanting to stay quiet(er), good at shot placement (my most recent character which died had 108 kills and 104 head shots), or for that player who likes to cause themselves lots of pain in difficultly*, I think the .22LR could do some good work and would have its place. (it could also be an ammo thing since .22LR is very common).

*.22LR only run's

[rossmum 7]

If I could have a nice little .22 and a 91/30 PU, I would be happy as a pig in shit.

[Land Squid 22]

4.) It’s quiet' date=' I can’t imagine its louder than a suppressed weapon (no such thing as a SILENCED weapon).[/quote']

Ahem.

http://youtu.be/5GbjXvH7xJA

:D

Here's a few silenced pistols (I really wish I could find a 1911 in the game with a can on it, perfect cartridge for that use since it's already subsonic).

This is supposed to be former soviet right? This one would fit right in: http://youtu.be/vvF4yurWSc0

And a .22 and a .45: http://youtu.be/ETVSlUVqjfM

Many thanks to my good friend Elite Arbor for posting those videos a few years back.

[harryzhe 28]

This is supposed to be former soviet right? This one would fit right in: http://youtu.be/vvF4yurWSc0

joking, right?

[Land Squid 22]

Nope. That's an M1895 Nagant revolver. It gas seals at the forcing cone so you don't have the cylinder gap problem that prevents you from effectively suppressing most revolvers. Silenced versions were used by the NKVD and Soviet special forces. Look up the Bramit Device if you're curious.

Also a suggestion for a silenced carbine: The DeLisle. It's a Lee Enfield that's been rebarreled to .45ACP with an integral suppressor and uses 1911 magazines. The guy speaking in a conversational voice is louder than the damned thing!

[rossmum 7]

I think he was referencing the pretty immensely low chances of finding an 1895 with its suppressor.

[Land Squid 22]

Letsee. Revolver that costs less than $80, $30 worth of steel and some time on a lathe. Oh and we're in a supposedly former soviet country where they ISSUED the damned things to the local forces and secret police. Yeah, I think we'd fine one or two.

[harryzhe 28]

yup, aside from that, a bunch of the ww2 ones used special saboted ammo which i would wager doesn't actually exist anywhere at all any more.

I can't find numbers for how many suppressed ones they produced but i would imagine the low thousands at most. And most surviving ones would probably be in vietnam if not in the hands of collectors

[rossmum 7]

Letsee. Revolver that costs less than $80' date=' $30 worth of steel and some time on a lathe. Oh and we're in a supposedly former soviet country where they ISSUED the damned things to the local forces and secret police. Yeah, I think we'd fine one or two.

[/quote']

I am fairly certain you have little or no idea the kind of issues involved in building your own functional suppressor, let alone during a zombie apocalypse. Unless you're about to say 'they had the suppressors beforehand', in which case no.

The 1895 itself? Yeah, it would be common and neat to have. But suppressed ones... honestly, I don't see them being nearly as common as you think they are.

[Land Squid 22]

I am fairly certain you have little or no idea the kind of issues involved in building your own functional suppressor' date=' let alone during a zombie apocalypse. [/quote']

I attended Colorado School of Trades for gunsmithing after I got out of the Navy. I hand ground my own lathe bits of cobalt steel (HSS for the initiated) before using them to actually make things.

Try again, Sparky. ;)

yup' date=' aside from that, a bunch of the ww2 ones used special saboted ammo which i would wager doesn't actually exist anywhere at all any more.

[/quote']

They aren't saboted. The bullets are simply seated below the case mouth. I have a Nagant with standard 1/2x28 muzzle threads in my own personal collection and it can use any 9mm suppressor (you know, like those on the M9SD in the game). Oh and the ammo is still commercially made by the Serbians, specifically by PRVI Partizan. Would you like to buy some?

[rossmum 7]

Well you got me there, but how many other people do you think share that skillset, let alone in a pretty backwater post-Soviet republic which is now infested with zombies?

As for the existing suppressors, they're already very rare, as they should be. It's not a thing I can see really being worth the effort versus how few people would find it and use it when there are more modern suppressed offerings.

[Land Squid 22]

Well you got me there' date=' but how many other people do you think share that skillset, let alone in a pretty backwater post-Soviet republic which is now infested with zombies?[/quote']

How likely is it that everyone who survived is an aircraft mechanic and also a rotary wing rated pilot? Not very, but in this game we all seem to be just that. *shrug*

[rossmum 7]

Of course, but thoe vehicles serve a separate, distinct purpose; the 1895 with a suppressor would be ditched in favour of the M9 SD by almost everybody, so it'd just be going to waste.

Again, though, the regular 1895 could be useful as an early-game weapon.

[ryanhuong@gmail.com 0]

This might be my most-wanted feature of all.

Searched for .22LR since I think it really needs to be included. I can only speak for the US but .22LR ammo is very common, well respected and used all the time mostly for varmint hunting, plinking, and target practice. Some people have AR-15's or MP5's in .22 caliber so they can shoot and train with the gun but keep ammo costs down.

The problem is that the American guns in Chernorus are all military. As far as I know there is no .22 used in the military. Not sure what Eastern European citizens have/are allowed to have. Maybe .22 doesn't really exist there in the civilian population.

I really hope it is used there and included in the game. Several .22 rifles can be used such as bolt action, tube fed, and even magazine fed guns like the 10-22. So we could have a rusty old bolt action as the low gun, a 16 shot tube fed (takes a long time to reload), then a mag fed 10-22 with a couple variants, with scope and without.

The rifles should take at least 5 shots to kill a person (2 or 3 heads hots), maybe more as people supposedly are wearing body armor. Very quiet, like a 9mm SD round. Kind of a soft little crack. Aggro range somewhere around the winchester I guess so it isn't too easy.

Takes up 11 slots in the back pack though. Would make the early game and role playing easier. Rabbit hunting would be fun. The round should fall off quickly and have some accuracy issues at range due to the tumbling action of the .22 round.

Pistols are another post. I doubt if there many Rugers in Europe, but maybe an equivalent like a baby luger type of German .22. Just have the pistols the same many shots to kill, and just make at as loud as the Makarov for simplicity.

[A Man Named GOB 1]

I want a recreation of my trusty 10/22 in game.

plus fucking 1.

[tekky 0]

Let’s face it' date=' the .22lr round is underestimated. It can be, and is a lethal round. It’s certainly no .45, but it is still a projectile that travels at about 1200 feet per second and can do damage IF the shot is placed correctly. Tell me that a .22 round traveling at speeds faster than the speed of sound (sometimes) will not puncture a human skull. It’s possible that it won’t, but it can. I think this would be a nice addition to the game and add a variety because;

1.) .22 ammo is very small and light, you could carry hundreds in your pockets

2.) Its plentiful, most casual gun owners or farmers are likely to carry it

3.) You wouldn't waste precious ammo killing single zeds with well placed a shot to the head

4.) It’s quiet, I can’t imagine its louder than a suppressed weapon (no such thing as a SILENCED weapon). At least more quiet than large caliber rounds. Why give your position away to everyone and their zeds? This way you can stay unnoticed by bandits & zeds who are not in your immediate vicinity, it also has a smaller muzzle flash if any at all.

It would be perfect for raiding those small towns where there are only a few zeds to clear, you could just post up at 50-100 yards away and quietly snipe zeds in the head one by one. Plus you can use it to hunt small game to cook for food. Not to mention a barn or the casual gun owner would almost always have a .22 on hand. Again, this isn't the powerhouse gun and should not be used in a heavily infested city. But when your out in the country side, hunting, or clearing just a few zeds why waste precious large caliber, loud rounds when you can plink away with your .22 at your leisure?

Just my .02 cents, some people want realism, what’s realism without one of the most popular calibers?:idea:

[/quote']

Yes! This is a great idea. Since the bullets are so light you could carry a ton. Sure it would make you feel a little safer around zombies. But you would still need something better for PvP. I think thats what makes it such a good idea.