Balanced background idea

[Dr. Toros 8]

We know that this idea has been done time and time again, and it's usually done badly, or awkwardly implemented.

We all know that the current state of the game doesn't really encourage cooperation very much. If we look at a historical context, civilization didn't really start to advance until there was specialization.

There were two main reasons that I came up with this idea:

1) working together in day z as compared to real life, is much less rewarding than it would actually be. The "shoot everyone" playstyle is where it should be, and I don't want to make that less effective.

2) It's patently ridiculous that the average survivor would be able to efficiently butcher an animal, do a blood transfusion, and do advanced vehicle repairs.

Here's what I propose each player can choose from at start:

Hunter- this background choice lets the player start with a hunting knife and can acquire double the meat from animals. Nice start for most lone wolves, and a supply of cooked meat is always valuable.

Medic- this background starts with a suture kit (new item, like a bandage medics can only use on other people), is the ONLY background that can administer blood packs, and can combine two bandages and a pile of wood to create a splint, that is an other-only form of morphine medics can use.

Mechanic- this background starts with a toolbox, and is the ONLY background that can repair a helicopter rotor or replace a windshield. In addition, they are able to provide upgrades to vehicles by using more parts.

For example, using more engine parts allows them to make the vehicle faster. More metal scraps give it more damage resistance, fuel tank parts can expand the fuel tank, and tires can be used to double tire health. (This would be the most difficult of the three to code in)

The goal was to make people, especially end-game, less able to do everything without anyone feeling like something was taken away.

Like I said, I know this has been done before, but I wanted to make something simple and most people should look at one of these three and see something they want.

[Specter911 2]

Better said then others, the only thing that doesn't fit in is giving extra items when you spawn, your heard the community on even giving a melee weapon on spawn, they want none of that, the less the better.

Instead you have to go out and find the items yourself, the new medic item would be in the hospital obviously, but only a medic is able to actually use it while everyone is able to pick it up.

I think mechanics should be the only one allowed to fix up a helicopter rotor because out of everything you can do in dayz, that is one that seems like you pulled the directions out of your ass to somehow fix.

Everyone else can do every other thing we can already do now.

Aswell allowing only the mechanic to reinforce a vehicle while anyone else can only fix one, is balanced enough.

Though there are many things to be added, for example you should give multiple advantages one set of skills has over another, but these skills must be only team based and not effect solo play at all.

[eero.afheurlin@iki.fi 0]

You make your points well and I do agree that it's funny that all survivors are helicopter mechanics (cars etc you can learn to fix by trial and error (especially if we're talking about old-school engines [the modern ECU computer OTOH are a very different beast], with helicopters second chances are pretty slim...)

Ditto for the blood transfusion.

People spawning with more valuable and varied loot however will probably be a field day for bandits (though it isn't much of a problem, except for the newbies, but thye're the ones complaining on the forum that it's impossible to survive [and I do feel bad for them, I guess nobody told them that they *really* need to learn ArmA game mechanics first so that they can worry about learning the pecularities of DayZ [zombie aggro, where to find loot, etc] without having to sturggle with controls at the same time)

[Dr. Toros 8]

Better said then others' date=' the only thing that doesn't fit in is giving extra items when you spawn, your heard the community on even giving a melee weapon on spawn, they want none of that, the less the better.

Instead you have to go out and find the items yourself, the new medic item would be in the hospital obviously, but only a medic is able to actually use it while everyone is able to pick it up.

I think mechanics should be the only one allowed to fix up a helicopter rotor because out of everything you can do in dayz, that is one that seems like you pulled the directions out of your ass to somehow fix.

Everyone else can do every other thing we can already do now.

Aswell allowing only the mechanic to reinforce a vehicle while anyone else can only fix one, is balanced enough.

Though there are many things to be added, for example you should give multiple advantages one set of skills has over another, but these skills must be only team based and not effect solo play at all.

[/quote']

To be honest, I think multiple advantages really would just complicate things. Simple, small changes I think will work best to make working with others more efficient in regards to resource consumption without being necessary.

The medic item might be a little too valuable for starting with, though since only medic background people could use it, I can't imagine too many bandits are going to be camping newbies that wouldn't be doing it under current rules.

You make your points well and I do agree that it's funny that all survivors are helicopter mechanics (cars etc you can learn to fix by trial and error (especially if we're talking about old-school engines [the modern ECU computer OTOH are a very different beast]' date=' with helicopters second chances are pretty slim...)

Ditto for the blood transfusion.

People spawning with more valuable and varied loot however will probably be a field day for bandits (though it isn't much of a problem, except for the newbies, but thye're the ones complaining on the forum that it's impossible to survive [and I do feel bad for them, I guess nobody told them that they *really* need to learn ArmA game mechanics first so that they can worry about learning the pecularities of DayZ [zombie aggro, where to find loot, etc'] without having to sturggle with controls at the same time)

People being against spawning with a melee weapon is probably 90% backlash against when people used to spawn with a pistol. I started after the change, and it really wasn't that hard. Read a few guides, look at a map, move carefully. By my third life on my first day playing I was doing pretty well. Just takes some careful planning.

Hunting knives, other only single use bandages, etc are pretty low-tier loot.

Some people spawning with toolboxes would also make the barbed wire forests around spawn areas less common too. Nearly every house has a toolbox in it, it would be a common post-apocalyptic item.

[Filozovs 2]

Why should I be forced to take a role? I'm playing the mod as I want to play, I'm making my own character.This isn't an MMORPG, we don't need classes.

[Specter911 2]

Well lets say it like this, you spawn on a beach, water takes away your items, perhaps you woke up on a beach and lost your equipment and have to find new equipment in this infested land.

As for multiple advantages I don't mean it in the way you think.

I.E

Say there was a new Mentality system implemented where murders can affect your characters mentality.

Hunters would be least effected, Medics Greatly, Mechanics in the middle.

Each character type would have a real world advantage over another, as well its own mentality.

I don't mean 3-6 advantages over a different character type, I meant 1-2 this character type can only do, or do better then others.

Edit: Also Filo this is the suggestion forums, suggest things!

But for your question, you are not forced to take a role, you are given a choice of what your characters background to be, this does not effect your playing experience at all solo, and if you are in a group, you are able to now be more efficient, yes you are making your own character, now with more detail.

Do not think of it as classes, instead think of it as character types, does it sound better that way?

[allseeing 0]

In real life you can all ways learn. How about books to teach you how to fix cars hunt and repair your self. Or different classes can teach each other stuff. It makes it harder to play as a loner though. You have to know how to apply a bandage to survive.

[kovalhuk 19]

I like this idea. "Roles" will add variety to the game. Is a fault to let everyone to be a man do all the trades. It is unrealistic.

[Filozovs 2]

Books and teaching other people things could work, but it's a big no for "character types", what if I don't want to be a medic or mechanic in my past life? What if I was just random bloke who was working in, let's say, in a supermarket. I don't know anything about hunting, I know only basic first aid and I can't repair my own car? Why should I always be limited to these set classes?

[Specter911 2]

Books and teaching other people things could work' date=' but it's a big no for "character types", what if I don't want to be a medic or mechanic in my past life? What if I was just random bloke who was working in, let's say, in a supermarket. I don't know anything about hunting, I know only basic first aid and I can't repair my own car? Why should I always be limited to these set classes?

[/quote']

Well it is only an example Filo, only 3 now to explain, then maybe in a day, or later today ill try to help out and list a variety of types.

The current 3 are up I am assuming because they are main factors to the game, while other types can affect the game in other ways.

For example lets say on your example.

If you worked in a super market, you are now a zombie and dead.

The people who spawn on a beach apparently drifted to shore, these are not normal civilians, they have knowledge, and their own specialties, there may be an odd one out of a bunch, but mostly they have survived and will attempt to continue to survive with what they know.

And what they know is what you choose for them to know.

[Filozovs 2]

So I can't have my backstory? All the cops and military guys seem to be dead...Why should a medic have a better chance surviving then a guy with an M16 and body armor? I could understand the fact that hunters are alive, since many of them live in remote locations, but the rest is just forcing stuff on people.

[Specter911 2]

So I can't have my backstory? All the cops and military guys seem to be dead...Why should a medic have a better chance surviving then a guy with an M16 and body armor? I could understand the fact that hunters are alive' date=' since many of them live in remote locations, but the rest is just forcing stuff on people.

[/quote']

You just gave me an idea, thank you for that, ok how about this.

At the current moment we all spawn on the beach, I just assume we floated here from somewhere, a crashed boat, helicopter, fell in the water, whatever it is, we spawn here.

I have based my ideas on spawning on the beach and following that idea that whoever we are, we do not come from this location.

With your idea we have been here surviving, why not have Character types spawn in specific areas.

I.E Hunters spawn in forests.

Medics remain at the beach as they were washed ashore.

Mechanics also have washed ashore.

With this new idea, those who washed ashore lost their items so no toolbox or medical item, but the hunter spawns with his knife.

Now if there was an outside lowly skilled person who survived, perhaps one of their bonuses would be to have matches, a couple bottle or tin cans as well as they have had to distracted zombies to live.

The problem is after that they bring no skills to the table in group play, so why don't we just say if you lived this long, you are more silent to zombies when moving around at any speeds, but they can still see you normally.

So technically if a group needs items in a town, your the best for the job as you have been living here long before they shored up.

[Dr. Toros 8]

Books and teaching other people things could work' date=' but it's a big no for "character types", what if I don't want to be a medic or mechanic in my past life? What if I was just random bloke who was working in, let's say, in a supermarket. I don't know anything about hunting, I know only basic first aid and I can't repair my own car? Why should I always be limited to these set classes?

[/quote']

Books and such would have to wait until there were actual settlements. Realistically, the "average joe" working in a supermarket probably wouldn't survive. The very generic "hunter" background is mostly for such people, as it's much easier to learn how to gut a deer than to splint a broken leg.

You could opt out as you describe, I guess.

Having "everyone can do anything" means the only thing valuable about another player is their loot. Which is why there's so little teamwork.

[Filozovs 2]

Your still mising the point, classes force people to play in a certain way. Medic will always stay behind, so they could patch people up, mechanics would be forced to play in groups, because there is no point of being able to repair things if you don't have the parts, and in DayZ finding parts involves raids and farming, very hard to do alone. People would just pick the hunter, since they would spawn away from the coast, a bit up north, i.e where the the good stuff is.

[Disgraced 1123]

Oh, classes. It must be Wednesday.

[Specter911 2]

Thats the point Filo, for team play, we need to introduce more team play to the game, plus having a background for your character adds a little immersion, as for making you play a specific way?

It absolutely does not, you pick what suits you.

If your team needs a medic, medic.

If your a loner, either hunter or the civilian.

There are solo character types, and group character types, does that make it a little better?

Some suited to solo and others group?

Aswell Disgraced I would prefer to call them character types.

[Filozovs 2]

One of the things that makes DayZ great is the fact that everybody has his own story and you can play in any way you like.

I didn't kill people at first, not if they didn't shoot first, but after a few days I was KOS'ing people, those damn russian servers... Before that I met some people and I'm still playing with one of them in a group.

We have a guy who carries most of our medical supplies, we have a sniper. I love to shoot them pigs. We sorted out our roles without set ''character types''. I don't want to always be the guy who has to carry all the pain killers. I don't want to be spending my time farming meat. People want to be free

[Specter911 2]

Russian servers? Wheres the vodka!

Aswell you are thinking with rules you apply, think with the rules I have applied.

I.e

If you were a medic you are the same as everyone else except being able to use a new tool item that allows you to use blood packs on others aswell as make new items to heal legs out of normal items you can ask your mates for.

You do not have to carry anything you do not want to, except having at least 1 blood bag in emergency would be useful or you could just have one of your mates carry the bag, but that is illogical.

As for farming meat, thats a solo type, you could be that guy to quicken the time it takes for you to gather meat, but it doesn't force you to farm meat, you just obtain it faster, and if you were in a group, you would get to cut up any animal spotted.

Anyway you are being contradictory, you say you don't want to be the guy carrying all the pain killers, yet you have a person that carries most of the medical supplies anyway, wouldn't it make common sense to give him more medical items to use out of his knowledge to combine and use blood packs?

Before you state we can use blood packs fine now, its alpha and to enable only medic's to administer them would add depth to the game to add little details to the game people will love when it is finished.

Character types is not a chain as you keep suggesting it is, it is an added bonus to your character for specific parts of the game, not a forced play style.

Just because you can gain more meat per animal doesn't mean you should farm all the meat for the entire group, it means when you got out for a hunt, you will gain more then other character types in shorter time.

If you were to join a group with a solo style type, you are not forced, it is just logical for you to hunt meat if you were ever in need or someone else in the group is in need.

Even then you talk like you are forced to be a hunter, instead of a civilian who can move more silently then everyone else, open your mind instead of being closed minded.

[wolfleader01 3]

i agree with the last post, this is a good idea, and would bring depth to the game, but not having a strict path within roles would make it very enjoyable :) just the added bonus'es mabye even a revive kit for solely a medic player?

[RaviN (DayZ) 9]

i agree that there needs to be another level to our char and make our char "differant" from everyone else, it does get boring with us all being able to do everything, and this probably would inspire more teamwork in total honisty, however like someone already said, this is ALPHA and this is the time to TEST new things and be able to say, WE TRIED THAT..... BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

Say there was a new Mentality system implemented where murders can affect your characters mentality. Hunters would be least effected' date=' Medics Greatly, Mechanics in the middle.[/quote']

this i dont agree with.. strongly!

1 yeah hunters wont be affected obviously, but..

2 medics greatly? thats bs, a medic would deal with death all the time, its as simple as that.

3 mechanics in the middle? thats bs too, a mechanic would never deal with death the way a medic or hunter will, he would lock the doors on his car and cry!

hunters gather more meat. cool, suits the solo style players that would need more meat to gain health. maybe add it so they can eat raw meat but only gives them 400hp per piece consumed.

mechanics can fix helicopters. cool. also can upgrade vehicles, more armour etc but unsure how they will add this.

medics can administer bloodpacks. cool. also.... anyone should be able to make a splint... but how about: a DEFIBRILLATOR and make this a tool for the medics toolbelt, this can do the same as an EPI-PEN but does not take up inventory slots.

no spawning with extra loot, i like it hard, also puts kids off from playing the mod.

[FlashHawk4 44]

You're not being FORCED into anything. It's not as if these suggestions are tampering with the core of the gameplay. We're not talking WoW style, "Only Paladins and Warriors can wield two-handed weapons and wear heavy armor, and only Rangers can shoot bows". What we're talking here is some basic skills that aren't ESSENTIAL to your lifespan in this game, but at the same time encourage teamwork.

Example:

I've never even found a helicopter before, and I've been playing for two weeks. Are you telling me it would RUIN the game for you if you suddenly were unable to repair one? Somehow, I think that if you found one AND amassed all of the parts you need AND got someone good enough at the complex helicopter controls in this game to not crash it in fifteen minutes AND had enough friends with you to make it useful, finding a mechanic shouldn't be too hard. And if your heart is dead-set on doing that, be a god damn mechanic YOURSELF.

[Dr. Toros 8]

Oh' date=' classes. It must be Wednesday.

[/quote']

Like I said in my original post, specialization is historically one of the main benefits and results/causes of civilization. People would come in with different skillsets, and these promote teamwork in a natural and positive way.

One of the things that makes DayZ great is the fact that everybody has his own story and you can play in any way you like.

I didn't kill people at first' date=' not if they didn't shoot first, but after a few days I was KOS'ing people, those damn russian servers... Before that I met some people and I'm still playing with one of them in a group.

We have a guy who carries most of our medical supplies, we have a sniper. I love to shoot them pigs. We sorted out our roles without set ''character types''. I don't want to always be the guy who has to carry all the pain killers. I don't want to be spending my time farming meat. People want to be free

[/quote']

If you read it and thought it through, you'd realize that for most people on most of their lives, the choice doesn't matter at all. It's great for grouping with almost no impact on solo play.

i agree that there needs to be another level to our char and make our char "differant" from everyone else' date=' it does get boring with us all being able to do everything, and this probably would inspire more teamwork in total honisty, [b']however like someone already said, this is ALPHA and this is the time to TEST new things and be able to say, WE TRIED THAT..... BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

Say there was a new Mentality system implemented where murders can affect your characters mentality. Hunters would be least effected' date=' Medics Greatly, Mechanics in the middle.[/quote']

this i dont agree with.. strongly!

1 yeah hunters wont be affected obviously, but..

2 medics greatly? thats bs, a medic would deal with death all the time, its as simple as that.

3 mechanics in the middle? thats bs too, a mechanic would never deal with death the way a medic or hunter will, he would lock the doors on his car and cry!

hunters gather more meat. cool, suits the solo style players that would need more meat to gain health. maybe add it so they can eat raw meat but only gives them 400hp per piece consumed.

mechanics can fix helicopters. cool. also can upgrade vehicles, more armour etc but unsure how they will add this.

medics can administer bloodpacks. cool. also.... anyone should be able to make a splint... but how about: a DEFIBRILLATOR and make this a tool for the medics toolbelt, this can do the same as an EPI-PEN but does not take up inventory slots.

no spawning with extra loot, i like it hard, also puts kids off from playing the mod.

The "extra loot" is pretty much ignorable as anything other than flavor and fostering teamwork early. Mechanics don't really shine until what is currently "end game" and will helpfully reduce razor wire spam. Survival will be just as difficult as before.

In regards to why only medics can splint, it's because for splinting a broken leg, the hard part is setting it correctly, especially for severe fractures (which would probably require amputation, but that's getting nitpicky)

[Specter911 2]

this i dont agree with.. strongly!

1 yeah hunters wont be affected obviously' date=' but..

2 medics greatly? thats bs, a medic would deal with death all the time, its as simple as that.

3 mechanics in the middle? thats bs too, a mechanic would never deal with death the way a medic or hunter will, he would lock the doors on his car and cry!

[/quote']

The idea is going through many different phases, but you supposedly gave me an idea.

Those were actually placeholders and I put medic as easily effected as its a team character, and I wanted team characters to be more effected then solo characters.

So if you were on your own you could kill players as a psychopath with little mental negativity, and if you played as a team character, killing others would affect you normally, with varying degrees indicated by mechanic, better phrasing would be mechanic as normal, and medic in between.

But then the new idea is this.

Instead of different character types, all of their bonuses you are able to choose from 3-5(placeholder) of them you can choose, depends how many traits there will be while some would count as 2 traits as how useful they are.

Upon choosing your traits from the list, your character's mentality is based off it.

With solo traits lowering how much mentality affects you with team skill keeping your mentality at normal.

The exception would be the medic trait, as you said they deal with death, so not only would it lower your mentality but it would allow you to heal others and make splints for broken legs for yourself, enabling more people to choose it as one trait and perhaps making use of it as they give up other traits for it.

Of course I know this is not sounding appealing to you, but when I get it compiled together and put it in my thread making more sense, after people pick at it and make it a little more straightened out, It may look viable to adding more to the game.

[FlashHawk4 44]

Doctors swore an oath to help people, or at least do no harm.

Can you say, "Cognitive dissonance"?

[Specter911 2]

Doctors swore an oath to help people' date=' or at least do no harm.

Can you say, "Cognitive dissonance"?

[/quote']

Well technically they aren't doctors, just someone who learned medical practice along the way, well thats how it would have to work for my suggestion.