Unless we get flags/effects for murder, this game will just be Deathmatch.

[PinkTaco24 10]

Don't just name call' date=' back up your claims.

The official stats show like 1.5 million pvp deaths and nearly 5mil pve deaths.[/quote']

so what? That doesn't MEAN anything other than people see a lot more zombies than other players.

Also you realize that as with every game' date=' the forum is a vocal minority of players. So even if there was let's say 100 threads on here about players hating pvp, there are a few thousand people online playing the game being happy.[/quote'] and what exactly does THIS have to do with anything again?

So stop being ignorant and sitting around telling me that I shouldn't post.

You're just another player who wants the game to change to cater you.

and you are arguing against changes to a system that currently caters to you. Pots and kettles.

[Rinner23 5]

he skins was in' date=' people cared about becoming a bandit, in a way as people "would" shoot you on sight. That was the risk/penalty you toke by going the bandit way... you dont have that anymore, so people shoot at everything instead...

[/quote']

Actually, only survivors cared about not becoming a bandit.. Bandits are bandits, regardless, and some of us actually enjoyed playing a 'nefarious character' (I'm not referring to griefing). Survivors still wanted to shoot bandits but not get flagged as a murderer.. which is a mechanic that does not work!

Now that there is no 'penalty' you rightly say people just shoot on sight, which only reinforces my point.. the bandit skin was simply a way out of the moral dilemma and it's removal has thus revealed the true nature of the player base.. If you had morals you would sacrifice yourself, rather than 'kill or be killed'..

* I'm a good survivor, not some evil bandit.

* I will shoot you on sight because I don't trust you and my life is more important..

(not quoting, just generalizing)

These two statements seems at odds with each other. There has to be some other way without flagging characters, because that mechanic only brings us back to the original and it simply DID NOT WORK!

Maybe something that gives survivor/survivor and bandit/bandit teams an advantage TO EACH OTHER, but is somehow passive.. I don't know..

[PinkTaco24 10]

If you act like a murdering prick' date=' you should have consequences. There is no problem with this...

[/quote']

And if you act like a naive child and trust everyone you meet, you should have consequences. There is no problem with this...

The problem is when you're too afraid to take responsibility for seeing to those consequences yourself and instead run to the game designer and beg him to implement those consequences for you.

Want consequences for banditry? Shoot them in their fucking brainboxes, Sherlock.

If they shoot you dead first, your friends can return fire? Don't have friends? Get some, or try harder not to be seen next time.

"Oh, pwease papa rocket! He hit me! Come spank him with your paddle for being naughty!"

So then your solutions is.. as I have said all along, its just to shoot everyone.

Devolving the game into a deathmatch.

Which is exactly what this post is pointing out.

Thanks for proving my point.

---

he skins was in' date=' people cared about becoming a bandit, in a way as people "would" shoot you on sight. That was the risk/penalty you toke by going the bandit way... you dont have that anymore, so people shoot at everything instead...

[/quote']

Actually, only survivors cared about not becoming a bandit.. Bandits are bandits, regardless, and some of us actually enjoyed playing a 'nefarious character' (I'm not referring to griefing). Survivors still wanted to shoot bandits but not get flagged as a murderer.. which is a mechanic that does not work!

Now that there is no 'penalty' you rightly say people just shoot on sight, which only reinforces my point.. the bandit skin was simply a way out of the moral dilemma and it's removal has thus revealed the true nature of the player base.. If you had morals you would sacrifice yourself, rather than 'kill or be killed'..

* I'm a good survivor, not some evil bandit.

* I will shoot you on sight because I don't trust you and my life is more important..

(not quoting, just generalizing)

These two statements seems at odds with each other. There has to be some other way without flagging characters, because that mechanic only brings us back to the original and it simply DID NOT WORK!

Maybe something that gives survivor/survivor and bandit/bandit teams an advantage TO EACH OTHER, but is somehow passive.. I don't know..

In my proposed system.. if you are flagged as a murder/bandit survivors can kill you at no penalty. Also, bandits can kill bandits freely.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

So then your solutions is.. as I have said all along' date=' its just to shoot everyone.[/quote']

Everyone? No. I said bandits. If you can't identify who is who on your own and your solution is to murder everyone, that's your choice. Personally I have no problem telling the difference between someone who wants to kill me and someone who is just passing by. It's usually pretty fucking obvious. Hints include: they chase you when you run, muzzle flashes, bullets landing nearby, and/or blood coming out of you.

Devolving the game into a deathmatch.

Nope. You can avoid combat entirely if you want. Again, your choice. Personal responsibility and all that.

Thanks for proving my point.

*gently pats head*

You're kind of cute.

[Swineflew 480]

You're acting like something changed and it's starting to turn into a deathmatch. Do you really not understand that this is a core part of the game? Did you really just start playing this game and decide you're all of a sudden some expert on how to make this game great?

Nothing has changed, the reason the game "caters" to me IS BECAUSE I LIKE THE GAME. I'm not going to get on the left4dead forums and ask for them to change their game because I don't like it.

If you don't realize the points I've made about kill counts and the vocal minority of players than I seriously may have to write you off as some whiny child who isn't old enough to understand that the world doesn't change for them.

[ShootyMcStabbyface 3]

I am a good guy but if I get the drop on someone from now they are getting a "dont fucking move!" If they move, they die. Ive tried "friendly" to hails of gunfire too many times. Now its YOU move, YOU die.

[PinkTaco24 10]

Everyone? No. I said bandits. If you can't identify who is who on your own and your solution is to murder everyone' date=' that's your choice. Personally I have no problem telling the difference between someone who wants to kill me and someone who is just passing by. It's usually pretty fucking obvious. Hints include: they chase you when you run, muzzle flashes, bullets landing nearby, and/or blood coming out of you.

[/quote']

Oooh, so the guy camp hiding in that random building, apartment, airfield, crash site, or hospital is totally noticeable before he's shot you dead.

I feel as if we are playing 2 entirely different games here.

The one I am playing in the real world, and the one you play in your imagination.

[Swineflew 480]

Everyone? No. I said bandits. If you can't identify who is who on your own and your solution is to murder everyone' date=' that's your choice. Personally I have no problem telling the difference between someone who wants to kill me and someone who is just passing by. It's usually pretty fucking obvious. Hints include: they chase you when you run, muzzle flashes, bullets landing nearby, and/or blood coming out of you.

[/quote']

Oooh, so the guy camp hiding in that random building, apartment, airfield, crash site, or hospital is totally noticeable before he's shot you dead.

I feel as if we are playing 2 entirely different games here.

The one I am playing in the real world, and the one you play in your imagination.

So what's your solution to that "problem"?

[PinkTaco24 10]

So what's your solution to that "problem"?

Its in the OP.

When someone has accumulated 20+ play hours of tally'd kills. And now suddenly they have to go back into a city for med supplies as a free target for the next week, maybe they think twice.

Or not.

Its just a minor additional risk for player killing. It deters some. Some won't care.

My system really separates the men from the boys. If you want to kill? Fine, do it. But don't bitch when you are a free kill for it.

The problem here. the REAL problem with all the naysayers... is you babies all want your free kills at no consequence. Bottom line, you're chumps.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Oooh' date=' so the guy camp hiding in that random building, apartment, airfield, crash site, or hospital is totally noticeable before he's shot you dead.[/quote']

No, but if he shot you dead, you were obviously totally noticeable.

Try harder to be less noticeable next time.

And, yes, maybe put some time into scouting an area's obvious camp spots before waltzing into town blowing on your giant noob tuba.

I feel as if we are playing 2 entirely different games here.

I get that feeling too sometimes.

The one I am playing in the real world, and the one you play in your imagination.

The one I play where I have no trouble avoiding this "constant deathmatch" that apparently exists to the point where I am able to acquire 10+ vehicles, multiple stocked tents, a small group of dedicated, trustworthy companions and hundreds of hours in-game with only 1 death in the last 40 days.

And the one you play where you stand in the middle of an open field in broad daylight taking screenshots of the pretty clouds and get angry when some cretin pops your thinkbag like an over ripe casaba melon for the 100th time this week.

[Refried 14]

Oooh' date=' so the guy camp hiding in that random building, apartment, airfield, crash site, or hospital is totally noticeable before he's shot you dead.

[/quote']

spoiler alert: bandits that you never see (such as the scenario you described) will still kill you regardless of if they are flashing neon with skull over them or not

as you yourself have already admitted

[PinkTaco24 10]

No' date=' but if he shot you dead, [b']you were obviously totally noticeable.

Oh please master, tell me how to not be noticeable on a staircase camped by a guy at the top. I WISH TO KNOW OH MASTER.

The one I play where I have no trouble avoiding this "constant deathmatch" that apparently exists to the point where I am able to acquire 10+ vehicles' date=' multiple stocked tents, a small group of dedicated, trustworthy companions and hundreds of hours in-game with only 1 death in the last 40 days.

And the one you play where you stand in the middle of an open field in broad daylight taking screenshots of the pretty clouds and get angry when some cretin pops your thinkbag like an over ripe casaba melon for the 100th time this week. [/quote']Oh, well since you are such a badass that gangs up on others 3 or 4 to 1. Explain to me how exactly my idea hinders your progress? Because according to you and your awesome.. nothing as simple as a flagging mechanic will hinder your awesomely awesome play skills in the least. After all... you know everything and are perfect at dayz

or are you just arguing to argue?

[tgrant 0]

I think there should be punishment for people murdering other players. But I don't think it should be anything in-game. What would be nice is if there were a "most wanted" list. Attached to the most wanted list would be whether or not the player was logged in and what server they were on.

Let the community track down and kill player killers. I'm sure if we had the info you'd see police forces spring up and have people monitoring their servers. If killing people meant you'd have people hunting you people might think twice. Plus people with lots of kills probably have great loot so you'd already have a built in reward system. Once they're killed they drop off the list.

[Swineflew 480]

Yea your "solution" doesn't change that situation at all.

I'm done here, I hate to sound mean but you are obviously too stupid or too young to know what you're talking about. Although I assumed as much by your name, but I thought I'd give you a chance.

We won't miss you when you quit.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Oh please master' date=' tell me how to not be noticeable on a staircase camped by a guy at the top. I WISH TO KNOW OH MASTER.

[/quote']

Don't go up staircases until you have confirmed that there is nobody waiting for you at the top.

If you cannot confirm that, go find a different staircase. The world is full of staircases.

Do you want me to teach you how to cross the road without getting run over now?

Oh, well since you are such a badass that gangs up on others 3 or 4 to 1.

Do you know why the Navy Seals work in teams instead of alone?

I do.

[preka 0]

Why would you know' date=' at a glance, what some random stranger has been up to? For someone who purports to be arguing from a position of logic and reason, you seem to spend a lot of time presenting "magic" as the only possible solution to the (perceived) problem.

[/quote']

Dude.. its a video game.

You are arguing about a core video game mechanic in a game with zombies and respawning loot, respawning new people, and arguing about 'magic' mechanics.

Come the fuck on...

But wait a minute... you said, back on page one:

And others would come after your ass and kill you for being a butchering murderer.

It works both ways.

At least in real life its KNOWN that mongel killed someone for their beans. And his friends come after you.

So you seem willing to cite "reality" when you imagine doing so favors your argument, but you ignore it, "because it's a video game, duuuuude" when it does not favor your argument.

So, your position does not appear to have any internal consistency, and, thus, we can conclude that your argument has very little to do with logic and reason, and everything to do with your personal preference.

[PinkTaco24 10]

Yea your "solution" doesn't change that situation at all.

then why are you so opposed to it?

I'm done here' date=' I hate to sound mean but you are obviously too stupid or too young to know what you're talking about. Although I assumed as much by your name, but I thought I'd give you a chance.

[/quote'] LLOOOOLLL the only one between me and you that comes off as even showing an OUNCE of knowing what they are talking about is me.

You took 1 stupid statistic of PvM to PvP deaths and tried to trounce that is an argument that PvP doesn't happen. Good god, how can you not see how those values are completely and utterly skewed? And you call me stupid..

fucking dipshit.

---

So' date=' your position does not appear to have any internal consistency, and, thus, we can conclude that your argument has very little to do with logic and reason, and everything to do with your personal preference.

[/quote']

Logic and reason in what sense? in terms of realism? or good game mechanics?

Don't bother answering, I'm sure you can't tell the difference.

[Swineflew 480]

Oh before I leave I was just wondering if you knew that bandit skins/flagging won't stop people at from killing players and even in my bandit skin all I have to do is say that I killed a survivor that tried to kill me and I got my skin and it's an easy out.

I request this topic be locked. We already know your solutions to a non existant problem doesnt work.

[PinkTaco24 10]

Don't go up staircases until you have confirmed that there is nobody waiting for you at the top.

If you cannot confirm that' date=' go find a different staircase. The world is full of staircases.

[/quote']

You DO understand that is impossible right? LOS prevents seeing all angles.

So basically your argument just devolved to 'never go up stairs.'

Sound advice there mister pro.

FYI, there are many solo assassins in the world.

---

Oh before I leave I was just wondering if you knew that bandit skins/flagging won't stop people at from killing players and even in my bandit skin all I have to do is say that I killed a survivor that tried to kill me and I got my skin and it's an easy out.

As ridiculous as this claim actually is, I would have no problem with a player believing something as stupid as that story. That's his fuck up.

At least he had a CHANCE to respond correctly though. They just chose not to.

In the current state, its shoot on site.

Deathmatch.

[preka 0]

Logic and reason in what sense? in terms of realism? or good game mechanics?

Don't bother answering' date=' I'm sure you can't tell the difference.

[/quote']

Logic and reason in the sense that the presented arguments are internally consistent and do not conflict with each other.

It's also fairly telling that you are seemingly incapable of responding to anyone who disagrees with you without resorting to petty name-calling.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

You DO understand that is impossible right? LOS prevents seeing all angles.

Buildings have windows' date=' and there are other ways of knowing whether someone is in a structure or not.

So basically your argument just devolved to 'never go up stairs.'

If that's what it takes, why not? I can't think of anything in the game on a 2nd floor that can't be found on the 1st.

If you absolutely must go up and you absolutely cannot see - use a grenade or two. I think they call it a breach and clear.

Sound advice there mister pro.

Well I'm on Day 20 and my previous survivor made it to 18. You're the one complaining that you can't stay alive. Take my advice and live or don't and keep dieing. I don't give a flying fuck either way.

FYI, there are many solo assassins in the world.

Sure are. Not sure how that's relevant. You're not trying to assassinate someone. I'm just responding to your asinine claim that I'm somehow a craven for working in a small team when that's obviously the most effective step you can take toward ensuring your survival.

[PinkTaco24 10]

Logic and reason in what sense? in terms of realism? or good game mechanics?

Don't bother answering' date=' I'm sure you can't tell the difference.

[/quote']

Logic and reason in the sense that the presented arguments are internally consistent and do not conflict with each other.

It's also fairly telling that you are seemingly incapable of responding to anyone who disagrees with you without resorting to petty name-calling.

I've responded plenty of times in this thread without name calling.

Do me a favor and tally the times I have been name called, compared to how many times I have called someone names.

Go ahead. Just don't be embarrassed at how ridiculous this comment was when you do.

[preka 0]

Logic and reason in what sense? in terms of realism? or good game mechanics?

Don't bother answering' date=' I'm sure you can't tell the difference.

[/quote']

Logic and reason in the sense that the presented arguments are internally consistent and do not conflict with each other.

It's also fairly telling that you are seemingly incapable of responding to anyone who disagrees with you without resorting to petty name-calling.

I've responded plenty of times in this thread without name calling.

Do me a favor and tally the times I have been name called, compared to how many times I have called someone names.

Go ahead. Just don't be embarrassed at how ridiculous this comment was when you do.

"Well... THEY STARTED IT!"

You're right. How could I have believed for a moment that I was dealing with anything other than a supremely rational being? :D

[icomrade 201]

hmm i've seen that system used somewhere before. Oh, right, it was used in DayZ, that exact system, who would have guessed...

[PinkTaco24 10]

hmm i've seen that system used somewhere before. Oh' date=' right, it was used in DayZ, that exact system, who would have guessed...

[/quote']

No.. no it wasn't...