MP5SD and MP5 Ammo

[Ctrl-Alt-Rage 2]

Hey all, I have an MP5SD and I cannot load regular MP5 Ammo. Is there a reason for this? A glitch?

I can use an MP5 with MP5SD ammo but not the other way around.

[knoxx5568 0]

You need MP5 SD ammo for the MP5SD.

[slimlacy 19]

He is aware of that knoxx.. he asked why it is like that.

[NinjaFate 0]

It's not a glitch, it's just the way it is.

[Ctrl-Alt-Rage 2]

Well that's too bad.

It seems kind of silly you can use SD ammo for the MP5 but you can't use regular ammo for the MP5SD.

Perhaps a an upcoming fix!?! :P

[Mallory (DayZ) 2]

Well, actually the MP5SD (the one with the integrated suppressor) was designed to fire standard supersonic ammunition.

Source: HK website - http://www.heckler-k...d/overview.html

tl;dr

[...]Unlike most conventional silenced submachine guns, it fires standard ammunition types with the same effect. The use of special subsonic ammunition is not necessary.[...]

So there is no need for the special subsonic ammo for the MP5 to be ingame at all as far as realism is concerned. I guess the reason for it being in the game is balancing (to make it more valuable as it offers a huge advantage) or an oversight.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Mallory

[Prnkstr (DayZ) 0]

I have no problem with suppressed weaponry having a limited ammo supply as supposed to regular firearms. The amount of advantage they have warrants the drawbacks otherwise they would be silly op.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

In this mod reality should be > balancing. It's per design yes.. but it's an error, and it should be fixed. Also the MP5SD is so weak for PvP that i'm not sure what's the "balance" .. balance versus the zeds? Doesn't make sense.

[jasonmcmackins@gmail.com 24]

Well, actually the MP5SD (the one with the fixed suppressor) was designed to fire standard supersonic ammunition.

Source: HK website - http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/...rview.html

tl;dr

[...]Unlike most conventional silenced submachine guns, it fires standard ammunition types with the same effect. The use of special subsonic ammunition is not necessary.[...]

So there is no need for the special subsonic ammo for the MP5 to be ingame at all as far as realism is concerned. I guess the reason for it being in the game is balancing (to make it more valuable as it offers a huge advantage) or an oversight.

Thanks man... As an 8 year veteran I have been trying to tell some folks that I play regularly with about this and none seem to really believe me. I'm not one to usually brow beat so I just dropped the issue quickly. I find several little inaccurate nooks that bug me. Another thing I would like to do is hang my military flash light to my LBV and us it hands free like I use to, but hay, I'm shitting in one hand right? lulz...

[Mouseater 1]

The reason for the SD ammo being required for the SD weapon is due to the fact that the gun fires silent. While yes the real gun can and will fire standard ammunition it doesn't do that silent. Two things make the gun go bang, the explosion from the gunpowder causing gasses to expand and the bullet going supersonic.

The silencer built into the MP5SD will remove the first bang, the expanded gasses go into the silencer allowing them to cool and not "bang" when the bullet exits the barrel. However, the silencer has no control over the speed of the bullet so it would still go bang since the bullet would go supersonic if it is standard ammunition.

Now unless ARMA already has this programmed, that means they would have to make every SD weapon play sounds dependent on what ammo is equipped and not the weapon itself. Seems like they did a good job to me, since if I had an SD weapon I would want it silent.

Though depending on whether or not they can program this is and how long it would take, it would be nice to shoot standard ammo out of the gun if that is all you had in a pinch.

[species5021 28]

I was hoping Rocket would eventually see the futility in the special sd ammo, but he put it in for a reason. Any chance anyone know what his motivation was?

[rusty_m 0]

I can certainly imagine ArmA being able to use different sounds in that way. It's already possible to hear three distinct sounds from just one shot being fired. There's the muzzle report of the gun, the crack of the supersonic bullet, and an impact sound. I don't see why these wouldn't be interchangeable, but I'm not a programmer.

[Mallory (DayZ) 2]

According to the more detailed article on wikipedia the MP5SD actually fires supersonic rounds subsonically (if that is a word). This is achieved by several holes in the barrel which divert part of the gas so that less pressure is available for accelerating the bullet => the standard supersonic projectile leaves the muzzle at subsonic speed => no sonic bang

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Patent_DE1553874_07-Oct-1971_Handfeuerwaffe_mit_Schalldaempfer_Heckler_und_Koch.png

This picture (used in one of HK's patents, taken from the german wikipedia article) shows those holes and the inside of the suppressor - apparently those holes where somewhat changed in the production state of the weapon.

Using standard ammo the sound will be 70 dB.

Using subsonic ammo the velocity will decrease even further (as not all of the ernergy available will be used to acelerate the bullet) reducing the sound by 1 dB (compared to standard ammo) - the "cost" however is 16-26% of the velocity which reduces the energy of the projectile by 29-45% (numbers taken from the german wiki article)

tl;dr

the standard ammo is fired subsonically with this weapon -> the gain from using subsonic ammo is hardly worth it considering the loss in energy.

On the matter as why rocket put the subsonic 9 x 19 mm into the game:

1) He probably didn't - I guess the weapons were just taken from Arma 2 w/o too much thought. So they were there to begin with and then that requirement wasn't taken out (for the MP5SD)

2) They are needed for the silenced M9 so the bullets themselves should be in game

3) some developer probably thought that they were also needed for the MP5SD - which they are not...

I may be wrong about the whole thing as i have never fired a MP5SD but that is the information on the topic that i could gather in linke 5min...

[Mouseater 1]

According to the more detailed article on wikipedia the MP5SD actually fires supersonic rounds subsonically (if that is a word). This is achieved by several holes in the barrel which divert part of the gas so that less pressure is available for accelerating the bullet => the standard supersonic projectile leaves the muzzle at subsonic speed => no sonic bang

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Patent_DE1553874_07-Oct-1971_Handfeuerwaffe_mit_Schalldaempfer_Heckler_und_Koch.png

This picture (used in one of HK's patents' date=' taken from the german wikipedia article) shows those holes and the inside of the suppressor - apparently those holes where somewhat changed in the production state of the weapon.

Using standard ammo the sound will be 70 dB.

Using subsonic ammo the velocity will decrease even further (as not all of the ernergy available will be used to acelerate the bullet) reducing the sound by 1 dB (compared to standard ammo) - the "cost" however is 16-26% of the velocity which reduces the energy of the projectile by 29-45% (numbers taken from the german wiki article)

tl;dr

the standard ammo is fired subsonically with this weapon -> the gain from using subsonic ammo is hardly worth it considering the loss in energy.

On the matter as why rocket put the subsonic 9 x 19 mm into the game:

1) He probably didn't - I guess the weapons were just taken from Arma 2 w/o too much thought. So they were there to begin with and then that requirement wasn't taken out (for the MP5SD)

2) They are needed for the silenced M9 so the bullets themselves should be in game

3) some developer probably thought that they were also needed for the MP5SD - which they are not...

I may be wrong about the whole thing as i have never fired a MP5SD but that is the information on the topic that i could gather in linke 5min...

[/quote']

Hey Thanks for that, didn't know the HK MP5SD had special ports drilled to bleed the gas off supersonic rounds.

I guess they just wanted SD weapons and their use in general to be more special since they allow you to explore towns more easily?

[jasonmcmackins@gmail.com 24]

Glad I kept reading before I posted again. I can understand some people being intelligent enough to figure some things out without first hand knowledge, but when someone tells you they have first hand knowledge it's usually good to listen.

Thank you Mallory for heading that one off for me and for those others reading, a good portion of other silenced weapons function just the same.

The is absolutely no need for the special ammo used buy most weapons in this game short some of the truly high powered sniper rifles. The 223 M16 also does not need a lower gain cartridge. If you want to make the weapon special, just make their spawn less frequent. Not crazy make believe ammunition.

[valiant 1-4 0]

I remember when i put normal STANAG rounds into a silenced M4, when you fired it sounded the same "PEEeeww PEEeeewww" but if you went into 3rd person- looked all the way behind you- then fired, the gun is shooting past your view from the front and you'd hear the supersonic "snap".

[-MadTommy 367]

I decided to drop my MP5 SD for a regular M16 as it seemed useless having a uber weapon with no ammo... i thought maybe that was a mistake, but i don't think i'll regret it.

[Catman (DayZ) 23]

I'm pretty sure the MP5SD ammo is from standard Arma2. Bohemia did a pretty good job on the modelling of the guns but like the rest of their games development lacking in polish (tiny tiny pet hate of mine, running around with the 1911 with the hammer down...it's a single action hammer grrrr lol).

Well hopefully soon we'll be able to convert a 9mm mag to any other type of mag. I'd love to see a suppressed 1911...the .45acp round is subsonic anyway

[chrispow 3]

Glad I kept reading before I posted again. I can understand some people being intelligent enough to figure some things out without first hand knowledge' date=' but when someone tells you they have first hand knowledge it's usually good to listen.

Thank you Mallory for heading that one off for me and for those others reading, a good portion of other silenced weapons function just the same.

The is absolutely no need for the special ammo used buy most weapons in this game short some of the truly high powered sniper rifles. The 223 M16 also does not need a lower gain cartridge. If you want to make the weapon special, just make their spawn less frequent. Not crazy make believe ammunition.

[/quote']

Can you give a few examples? As far as I know (thanks to Mallory) the only one that shouldn't require the SD ammo is the MP5SD. M4 SD, M9 SD, PP-19 Bison SD (Does this shoot the 9x18 or 9x19 in-game? According to Wikipedia it can use either.) should all require SD ammo.

[Catman (DayZ) 23]

Can you give a few examples? As far as I know (thanks to Mallory) the only one that shouldn't require the SD ammo is the MP5SD. M4 SD' date=' M9 SD, PP-19 Bison SD (Does this shoot the 9x18 or 9x19 in-game? According to Wikipedia it can use either.) should all require SD ammo.

[/quote']

To be as quiet as possible you'd have to use subsonic but you're not ruled out from using 'standard' (supersonic) velocity ammunition, it'd be a lot quieter at the source (so hard to determine where the shot came from) but you'd still have the supersonic crack of the bullet.

I'm hoping the Bizon is or will be reclassed to 9x18 and that we'll be one day able to convert Maky mags into bizon mags!

[Ctrl-Alt-Rage 2]

I can understand wanting to have special ammo for silenced weapons.

As for the MP5SD, one of the only reasons I use it is to take care of zombie mobs near downed helicopters/high yield loot sites.

I rarely partake in PVP, (unless it's unavoidable). And for the sake of self defense I tend to keep a second primary (sniper) in my backpack to do a little recon when Binocs aren't giving me any confidence.

Of course, there is a trade off. I sacrifice precious loot storage for a little added comfort knowing I could hold my own from a distance if needed. But it still is frustrating not having enough ammo for the Silenced weapon that was already rare to find.

I found a silenced M9 (just the gun) and thought I was in heaven. Until I played for 12 hours off and on and never found an SD ammo clip for the pistol lol.

I know some people have had better luck finding a bunch of great drops. But there are a lot of us who don't play non-stop and scout out all the loot locations we possibly can day in and day out.

BTW, this isn't me complaining by any means. I was just curious if that was something Rocket was looking to work on or if there was a reason why it was the way it was.

[chrispow 3]

Can you give a few examples? As far as I know (thanks to Mallory) the only one that shouldn't require the SD ammo is the MP5SD. M4 SD' date=' M9 SD, PP-19 Bison SD (Does this shoot the 9x18 or 9x19 in-game? According to Wikipedia it can use either.) should all require SD ammo.

[/quote']

To be as quiet as possible you'd have to use subsonic but you're not ruled out from using 'standard' (supersonic) velocity ammunition, it'd be a lot quieter at the source (so hard to determine where the shot came from) but you'd still have the supersonic crack of the bullet.

I'm hoping the Bizon is or will be reclassed to 9x18 and that we'll be one day able to convert Maky mags into bizon mags!

No, I understand this. But if this isn't modelled within Arma 2, limiting the use of standard ammunition is wise. I was wondering if he/she knew of any other in-game weapons that wouldn't require the SD ammunition in order to stay subsonic.