Starting with no wep is Awesome. Just need to be balanced...

[PinkTaco24 10]

I like the idea of not starting with a gun. Its much more realistic IMO.

The issue, is it seems the mod was balanced so far assuming you WOULD have a weapon. Causing serious problems for newer players and acquiring a weapon.

We can argue all day long 'oh you are just not hardcore enough' like fools want to make claim, but the fact of the matter is, new players are not going to know everything about the game's mechanics from the get go.

A new player is not going to know how far away a zombie will aggro based on his current visibility. They aren't going to know how to lose a zombie once they have aggro.(i still haven't figured that one out) They aren't going to know what spawns where, they aren't going to know what locations are more dangerous than others, they aren't going to know where the hospitals are when they get a broken bone.

The only way to succeed in this game is to already know where and how things work. There is no forgiving or adapting aspect to it. You just die.

If the balance was tweaked in such a way that it was understood you don't start with morphene, and you don't start with a weapon, I think things could be for the better. As it stands now though.. there are too many mechanics assuming you have a weapon, and you have things like morphene when you don't. And the problem is, once you get caught off guard even once without these items. Its game over.

If you want to allow a mod for perma death, I think mechanics that can kill you that are decided by random rolls(ie. broken bones from zombie hits, tons of ammo spawning but never a weapon) needs to be adjusted. It gives a feeling that the game is cheating you, because its breaking your legs, or never spawning a weapon, and you are dying because of it. Its out of the players control and completely luck based. That's just bad design.

[mansen 1]

*blablabla*

Welcome to the zombie apocalypse post "the armies are all dead and only you and a few others are alive" world.

[PinkTaco24 10]

*blablabla*

Welcome to the zombie apocalypse post "the armies are all dead and only you and a few others are alive" world.

If your argument is its suppose to be realistic, let me count the ways game mechanics halt said realism.

1. Hatchets are weapons yet if you find an axe in a treestump you can't loot it.

2. Zombies punch you, and it breaks your legs.

3. broken bones are fixed by morphene.

4. you can crawl right past a zombie in prone position without them noticing

5. any LOS issues for losing zombies

6. zombies attack through walls

shall I continue?

You can't argue 'oh well thats how the apocalypse would be' when its quite apparent there are mechanics in the game that 'are not how the apocalypse would be.'

So move along.

[DryGulch 32]

The only way to succeed in this game is to already know where and how things work

That's your problem right there, you're falling into the pit that modern gaming has; you're underestimating the player. People who have a genuine interest in this mod, will stick it out and learn because they're curious, intelligent and enthusiastic people.

If starting without a weapon is turning some people away or forcing them to come on here and first post a giant wall of moan, then this is not the game for them right now.

[Trumpet 0]

Can you please look up "balance" in a dictionary and tell me how this applies to the games difficulty for new players.

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what two or more things need to be made equal in regard to the games difficulty.

There is no parity to be had between you and a world full of zombies.

[wasrad 42]

i dont seem to have any problems with it. You should try this, its more along the lines of what you are looking for: http://www.barbie-games.net/games/a-kiss-in-a-hammock.html

[Dingus (DayZ) 429]

The only way to succeed in this game is to already know where and how things work

That's your problem right there' date=' you're falling into the pit that modern gaming has; you're underestimating the player. People who have a genuine interest in this mod, will stick it out and learn because they're curious, intelligent and enthusiastic people.

[/quote']

Correct. Every single death, from any cause, is a separate learning experience in Day Z. You get better with each death. My first life was a couple hours, second was a couple more, third was a whole day, and it goes on. Even dying to bugs, as shitty as it is, you learn how to avoid that bug.

Every time a zombie breaks your leg and kills you, you gain more respect for what THESE zombies are capable of, what other players are capable of bad or good. You learn what buildings are worth the risk of trying to get to and which aren't. You learn the behaviors of the zombies and how your movements can help you avoid their attention.

So get back in there and show us some spine. This game really is fucking clever, and it's a shame when new players shit their office chairs at the learning curve. It's steep, but it's not long.

[xcess (DayZ) 0]

Stop worrying about aggro. A few walls are all you need to beat the zed.

[PandaSandwich! 0]

*blablabla*

Welcome to the zombie apocalypse post "the armies are all dead and only you and a few others are alive" world.

If your argument is its suppose to be realistic' date=' let me count the ways game mechanics halt said realism.

1. Hatchets are weapons yet if you find an axe in a treestump you can't loot it.

2. Zombies punch you, and it breaks your legs.

3. broken bones are fixed by morphene.

4. you can crawl right past a zombie in prone position without them noticing

5. any LOS issues for losing zombies

6. zombies attack through walls

shall I continue?

You can't argue 'oh well thats how the apocalypse would be' when its quite apparent there are mechanics in the game that 'are not how the apocalypse would be.'

So move along.

[/quote']

How about the argument "It's not a game. It's a Mod for an existing game. A Mod that is in ALPHA."

[spiney 10]

I don't mind starting with no weapons, if weapons dropped more often.

I've begun calling myself 'Hatchet Man' because that's the only weapon I have ever found.

Granted its a decent weapon, more often then not I've been thwarted by having my legs broken by being smacked in the face.

[LaurenDanger 100]

The only thing I'd like added to the starting gear is an empty water bottle. It's quite normal for people to carry water bottles these days. Otherwise, this is a great mod that requires persistence, yes, and for most gamers, well, they've been given an easy time of things and din't get that.

There are no pop-up tutorials, and why should there be?

Play some single player ArmA2, even the tutorials there, learn the controls, and then just be willing to take a few lives to put together how things work in the mod.

Yes I make it seem easy, and this mod is not. But why should it be easy to learn or play? Do we want those "please hold my hand" players in the game with us?

[WhiteTigerShiro 25]

*blablabla*

Welcome to the zombie apocalypse post "the armies are all dead and only you and a few others are alive" world.

If your argument is its suppose to be realistic' date=' let me count the ways game mechanics halt said realism.[/quote']No, his argument is that the game is SUPPOSED to be hard. A game centered around an infection that has destroyed all civilization, including the military, should be be easy. But I do love how people's default reaction to someone pointing out that an idea lacks the realism the mod aims for by going through and nit-picking anything they can.

1. Hatchets are weapons yet if you find an axe in a treestump you can't loot it.

Hatchets are new to this build of the game. It's entirely possible that Rocket may decide to code the tree stump axes to be lootable as hatchets.

2. Zombies punch you, and it breaks your legs.

By all means, feel free to suggest that zombies should be able to break your arms, thus rendering you unable to wield a weapon. And who's to say that they aren't strong enough to break bones? The infection could very-well have given them enough strength to manage that.

3. broken bones are fixed by morphene.

An accepted unrealism, since otherwise getting a broken bone would require you to deal with it for about 3 months before it's healed. Anyone with a broken bone would just kill themselves at that point just to not have to deal with it.

Just because there are some things unrealistic about the game doesn't mean we want to cram more into it. Any unrealistic mechanic is going to be a very hard sell, and even then would need to be a 100% vital mechanic to keep the game playable; and no, I don't just mean playable "to the PvP whiners".

4. you can crawl right past a zombie in prone position without them noticing

Zombie AI is buggy right now, there's no way of telling whether or not that's intended. Frankly, I have yet to be able to be anywhere near a zombie without him detecting me, prone or otherwise.

5. any LOS issues for losing zombies

Not really sure what you even mean by this one; though the previous answer about buggy zombie AI probably applies, mixed with this next answer.

6. zombies attack through walls

It's called a bug. Keep in mind that this game is still in alpha, so having to call-out a bug as something that's "unrealistic" in order to support your idea just smacks of desperation.

shall I continue?

Feel free, you missed a ton. Doesn't change the fact that game's aim is to be as real as possible, thus any unrealistic idea (especially some of the ideas that get tossed around on this forum that are just straight-up magic) is going to get shot down very quickly.

[Mekajiki 0]

I just died when three zombies spawned next to me, immediately attacked(I was prone and watched them spawn), broke my legs and knocked me unconscious on the first hit(~11000 blood), and then preceded to eat me until I woke up at 4000 blood and during the waking up animation(While I'm mashing the shoot button to try and get them), I go unconscious again. I never had a chance.

The balance problem isn't with the start of the game, it's with the zombies. I want them to be hard but I also want it to be semi-reasonable. Zombies should not spawn within 2 meters of you, that's a real balance problem.

[clever 12]

This game isn't really supposed to be "Balanced", the game is supposed to be heavily unbalanced for the human side. It's not THAT hard to find a weapon in the first place, usually after looting for a good twenty or so minutes I find something decent.

[LastManOnEarth 14]

Well, I don't agree AT ALL with no starting weapon, but hey, that's up to Rocket and not me. I've learned to adapt, as everyone will.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's still, more often than not, an extremely boring and painstakingly sloooow process looking for a weapon when you first start sometimes--especially when you don't have the luck to find one right off in your immediate area, and/or take damage from zombies (or a killer door frame) whilst looking, causing you to break your leg. Then, yeah, it's crawl time for what feels like forever (unless you just hit respawn to get a fresh start and be done with the unnecessary frustration). And all of this is only compounded when it's nighttime--and we're talkin' DayZ's Carl Sagan black hole nighttime.

Anyway, realism or not, "hardcore" or not, anti-game (whatever that means) or not, I don't much care for the no start weapon thing, myself. (Like it or lump it, haters.)

[WhiteTigerShiro 25]

anti-game (whatever that means) or not' date='

[/quote']

I'm guessing he means that it's meant to be closer to a sim (would you honestly consider Microsoft Flight Simulator to be a "game" in the same sense as Modern Warfare or God of War?). So the focus is more on "how can we make this more real", and less on making sure that any given scenario is "balanced" properly.

[septuscap 42]

Letter from the 80's to Nintendo:

"I think new players would not understand that holding the jump button makes you jump higher, or that you can change jump direction in the air. The game assumes you know this but imagine how many times new players would die before figuring this out.

And what about all these enemies that you *can't* jump on. That's just not very consistent, and there is no way for new players to just know this!!"

tl;dr You're SUPPOSED to die at first, there's a learning curve, no one's going to hold your hand you self-entitled child.

[envy9o9 3]

No I totally agree, especially about morphine. The first time I broke my leg in game I didn't instantly go "Oh, I need morphine" I had to ask in side channel. Because really that's not realistic. Now I'm sure new players are running off into the north and breaking their legs and saying, wtf do I do? Not like they can ask in side channel anymore.

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

I dont undestand how people CANT find weapons. If you play on a server with 70 players sure all the loot is gone. But try playing in a match with 10-20 ( it may be at night so bring some flares) and watch as you find enough guns for you and your friends.

Yesterday I was in a 14 player server at night and found 4..........FOUR guns in ONE building in cherno.

[SystemiK 366]

DayZ is a lot of living and a lot of dying, dying seems to have a special place in DayZ. Not every life turns out to have been a life worth living, but every once in a while you are dealt with a perfect hand and the game takes you on an amazing and wild ride.

Too many people play this game and expect every life they play to be an awesome experience. That's just not the kind of mod we have here. It strives to deal you a shitty hand and see what you can make of it. This does not always end well for the player.

It's a dog eat dog world and sometimes we get eaten...

Lately, I have found the most enjoyable part of the game for me is after I have fucked up and made a serious mistake. Maybe I've got 3000 blood and cant see for shit, maybe I'm a 30 minute crawl from the nearest village, maybe I don't have a chance in hell of surviving if I don't find a knife & some matches so I can crawl off to find a cow and then crawl to back to my tent for morophine. Surviving can get a bit dull after awhile, but surviving against impossible odds, well that can be pretty sweet.

Just last night, I entered a house and 3 zeds jumped me from inside. I came out with 3200 blood and decided that I would trek south to cherno. Vision was fucked, it was dark, didnt even think I'd make it there and then BAM! Found a tent in the cherno apts. Well, "do or die trying" just became "NOT A FUCKING OPTION". I had one can of beans and now I had a REAL goal. Get my ass north to a place I had scouted out for a camp. Getting there was a nightmare with bad vision and the darkeness and all but I made it. Got my camp secured, and shortly afterwards, I died of starvation.

I don't play this game with an expectation that every time I play the game will be an enjoyable experience. It's just not that kind of game. I PLAY it because I know that every once in awhile something truly amazing will happen to me.

TL;DR Blah blah blah