The Pvp Problem.

[twil 0]

I think its always these players that plays strictly just for the pvp. So they loot many stuff to make a "round off pvp equipment" to be in the position to live in comfort for killing other people as it makes fun, and not to survive. And now everytime they read "anti pvp" stuff here, they are becoming the feeling"someone wants to take all this from me...my comfort". Sorry but pvp is not the goal in Dayz, it should be a option, but not the goal.... your camping snipers! Damn you!

ps:sorry for my bad english

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

And finally' date=' give people a way to not just signal their intentions, but [i']demonstrate them. We should have intuitive controls to holster our weapons, and surrender.

Isn't it possible to doubletap ctrl to lower your weapon? Or hit \ to salute? :P

[Reaps 22]

Ok so you are saying make it so if someone whants to kill you' date=' they will kill you, and this will make pvp less pvp?

[/quote']

So i take it with this statement, you advocate logging off when in a firefight and/or just after to lose zed aggro. To save you're life and gear?

PVP doesn't need these weird player set laws against or for it. I don't want to see number pop out your head when i get a headshot, nor do i want to suddenly hear bandits cough and splutter, get shaken hands and become unable to play the game the way they CHOOSE.

My point about the disconnects is that is affects the game for ALL of us. In its current state, the game seems to be running like this for most well geared pvp players.

spawn -> get to NWAF -> Server hop -> profit. -> back to elektro -> Camp -> Kill -> Relog.

God forbid you get a drop on one of these elite bandits, because if you don't get the head shot on these gillie suit wearing pansies they log off, immediately.

And EVERY ONE of them that me and my friends have killed or shot at have had m107's NVgoggles, Rangefinders. The whole 9.

They do it because there's nothing left, there's plenty of content wanted threads out there. But they also do it because there's very little risk. at the slight sound of trouble, they pull the plug.

FIX that safety net, and you WILL see a drop in the PVP. there's no more running from your choices, you have to deal with the aftermath of the decisions you made and there's a much higher probability of losing that "hard earned" gear.

You guys all scream for realism but fixing obvious exploits comes second. Makes absolutely no sense.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

I agree with the above post to a ridiculous degree.

[twil 0]

This mod has exposed the underlying question Dreganius has: Why don't they make good games anymore?

And the answer: Cause you abuse the good ones.

[alexander_q 6]

And finally' date=' give people a way to not just signal their intentions, but [i']demonstrate them. We should have intuitive controls to holster our weapons, and surrender.

Isn't it possible to doubletap ctrl to lower your weapon? Or hit \ to salute? :P

The holster command works well for rifles but not pistols. The salute is a good placeholder, but I think players need to be able to lower their weapons or raise their hands but maintain the ability to move just in case the other player doesn't lower/raise theirs - the salute is too big a risk for players to take.

You guys all scream for realism but fixing obvious exploits comes second. Makes absolutely no sense.

Hear, hear.

[Kyuuki 0]

coming from someone who has 3 or 4 total player kills (all in self defence) and have died countless times due to bandits or paranoid survivors' date=' i dont believe there is a pvp problem. the mistake is in having faith in mankind when shit hits the fan. join a group of people you can trust.

[/quote']

Before, i say I'am Friendly ...

Now, I shoot and i speak after ...

It's the truth of this game ... Is not a Survival Zombie game but a FFA Game with zombie IA ...

Zombie are ridiculous, and respawn in this game is very hard. No time to stuff, you're dead ...

No time to say I'm friendly, you're dead ...

And it's impossible to see a survivor to a bandit ...

This Mod go to FFA PVP in cities ... Zombie is here for fun !

[BL1P 252]

As long as anyone can kill another player with zero repercussions but with high rewards then murdering will remain the quickest and easiest way to gain loot in this mod.Also it will always be abused by people who use it just to annoy others.

Because this is a game and not real life. Killing does not give any of the effects or repercussions in-game that it may or may not in real life.

The original Idea of a skin as a repercussion of murder was sound. The mechanics behind the implementation of the skin where flawed as defensive kills gave the same skin at the same rate.

killing in defense of ones self or of ones "loved ones" has never been the same as "killing because the voices told me to".

The repercussions for murderers should be visible in a game such as this. As technology at the moment is unable to simulate life close enough to use any other methods... At the moment .

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

As long as anyone can kill another player with zero repercussions but with high rewards then murdering will remain the quickest and easiest way to gain loot in this mod.

Wow' date=' really spreading this tripe around today, eh?

Complete and utter hogwash. Your odds of being killed by another player while attempting to murder them are [b']orders of magnitude higher than your odds of dying to zombies will collecting the best loot in the game that literally just spawns lying on the ground.

I looted ~6 helicopter crashes with my gang yesterday. Two pairs of NVGs, M107, M249 a Bizon SD, and an L85A2 AWS all with zero risk to ourselves because we were playing on a lightly populated server.

And I'm supposed to believe that this was somehow "more difficult" than hunting down an intelligent, heavily-armed, fully-aware human player? One who quite likely is not alone? That's seriously the party line you're going to tow around?

Killing does not give any of the effects or repercussions in-game that it may or may not in real life.

Killing in real life does not have repercussions. We had to invent those ourselves, remember? Do you think the neanderthals suffered "repercussions" when they killed people? No. We had to establish the rule of law to punish the crime of murder. Now that rule of law is gone.

If you want it back you're going to have to establish it yourself. rocket is not going to do it for you.

The repercussions for murderers should be visible in a game

They are. You can visibly see the blood that comes out of them when you shoot them. If you want "repercussions" then hike your fucking diaper up and go dish some out with extreme prejudice. Quit asking the game design to do your dirty work for you.

[Zwans 1]

AAAnd another one, my my you derps just keep coming.

1. Rocket is, unsuprisingly, way ahead of you. Read his articles and search the forum before posting.

2.That's dumb, fucking dumb. The heart sound was a penalty for gamestyle, wich is retarded, and the bandit skin caused more people to kill you then not. Because if i know you see me as a bandit you gonna kill me, so i'm gonna kill you first.

3. This is retarded. Dead frontier is there for a retarded game. If you like it's features go play that. So if you defend yourself against 3 bandits, and kill them, more zombies should pop up to reward you?

4.Rocket doesn't like the idea of penalizing; Probably because he's not a stupid jackass liek most game Dev's who just want to make money and dont give a shit about your game experience. PENALTIES ARE RETARDED, stop hoping God( rocket) will protect you and defend yourself. Yes, ALL the time.

5. I agree with you there, long term goals are the key to shutting up whiny people who couldn't hit a barn with a farmhouse.

Levelling? Missions? How original! Soon we will have just another world of warcraft clone with zombies, wonderfull.

There is nothing to stop people from hunting player no, that's how the Dev's want it, thats how most players want it. it's not gonna change for you. It's not.

Z

[James2012 0]

Ok so you are saying make it so if someone whants to kill you' date=' they will kill you, and this will make pvp less pvp?

[/quote']

So i take it with this statement, you advocate logging off when in a firefight and/or just after to lose zed aggro. To save you're life and gear?

PVP doesn't need these weird player set laws against or for it. I don't want to see number pop out your head when i get a headshot, nor do i want to suddenly hear bandits cough and splutter, get shaken hands and become unable to play the game the way they CHOOSE.

My point about the disconnects is that is affects the game for ALL of us. In its current state, the game seems to be running like this for most well geared pvp players.

spawn -> get to NWAF -> Server hop -> profit. -> back to elektro -> Camp -> Kill -> Relog.

God forbid you get a drop on one of these elite bandits, because if you don't get the head shot on these gillie suit wearing pansies they log off, immediately.

And EVERY ONE of them that me and my friends have killed or shot at have had m107's NVgoggles, Rangefinders. The whole 9.

They do it because there's nothing left, there's plenty of content wanted threads out there. But they also do it because there's very little risk. at the slight sound of trouble, they pull the plug.

FIX that safety net, and you WILL see a drop in the PVP. there's no more running from your choices, you have to deal with the aftermath of the decisions you made and there's a much higher probability of losing that "hard earned" gear.

You guys all scream for realism but fixing obvious exploits comes second. Makes absolutely no sense.

No, I do not " advocate logging off when in a firefight"

I was thinking more of the line of when someone is camping, and they go to kill someone else the person they are trying to kill log's off.

And making it so they can not log off, would not fix pvp,Altho i do think it is bad that they log off, but i can see what you mean now.

I guess this would make it better to keep players in a combat situation if pvp players are the ones logging out when players fight back. I never really thought about it that way heh.

[rares 2]

Stupid kids don't understand that PvP isn't a problem unless you reject it. 5% of the players don't want any PvP at all. For those i got to say: Go play L4D. PvP isn't a problem, the game is designed to do what it's supposed to do.

[James2012 0]

If someone wants to kill you' date=' they should be allowed to kill you. Why should they be stopped from killing or punished because of it simply because you don't like it?

Which again is why one of my suggestions is to add more content such as base building and maybe clearing towns of zombies. There are probably alot of more and fun things that can be added which does not require you to kill another player.

Read my Liberation thread.

I really like this idea! the liberation thing, it be pretty cool if it was added into the game.

---

This mod has exposed the underlying question Dreganius has: Why don't they make good games anymore?

And the answer: Cause you abuse the good ones.

how so?

[Osiris1 0]

No. No. And No.

If you can't handle getting shot, don't play shooting games. Don't ask for the devs to babysit you.

1. I find nothing more annoying than someone killing someone else, and then them bitching about it in global chat. "OMG HE KILLED ME OMGOMGOMG". Plus, you can lie. That's when the fun really begins.

2. No. That's annoying, especially if you got bandit from self-defense, where self-righteous pricks will shoot on sight out of paranoia or a sense of superiority.

3. No, because if someone misses you and you kill them, but it doesn't register in self-defense, then you die a brutal death. Even if you murder someone brutally, that's part of the survival aspect. Deal with it.

4. No. Again, if you can't handle PVP, don't engage in PVP-encouraging games.

5. Let's not turn this into that zombie frontier RPG.

If you can't handle the inevitability of being shot at in a competitive, survival based scenario, then you shouldn't be placing yourself in a competitive, survival based scenario. It's kind of like if you don't have gills, you shouldn't try living underwater. Don't ask the fish to drain the water. Just leave the ocean.

[James2012 0]

Stupid kids don't understand that PvP isn't a problem unless you reject it. 5% of the players don't want any PvP at all. For those i got to say: Go play L4D. PvP isn't a problem' date=' the game is designed to do what it's supposed to do.

[/quote']

I am not a kid, And i really like the sandbox of dayz, it has a scale no other zombie games have,from what i can tell anyways.

I do not have so much a problem with pvping to survive as i have a problem with players that go out of there way to kill as many other players as they can just because they can.

[punisher_1 3]

I get your point but this game will never support anything viable to detect a "bad guy" from range.

It would be too complicated and I do not believe that the staff wants to invest the time to create a mechanic to offer up the "Tells" of a bad guy. Chances are by the time a player gets close enough for you to see if he's twisted it's too late.

The Bandit skin was originally on the right track. I and others suggested a new skin where you look bloodied. So you may look like the other players but your charater has splashes of blood on their clothing, face and hands. This increases with each kill.

It's simple and to the point can be seen at range and requires less coding / creation time than any other suggestion.

However the final solution until then is:

KILL EVERY M'FER YOU SEE UNLESS YOU KNOW THEM

[Osiris1 0]

Stupid kids don't understand that PvP isn't a problem unless you reject it. 5% of the players don't want any PvP at all. For those i got to say: Go play L4D. PvP isn't a problem' date=' the game is designed to do what it's supposed to do.

[/quote']

I am not a kid, And i really like the sandbox of dayz, it has a scale no other zombie games have,from what i can tell anyways.

I do not have so much a problem with pvping to survive as i have a problem with players that go out of there way to kill as many other players as they can just because they can.

Suggesting a detrimental experience to those who would want to kill for the thrill of PvP does not fix the problem of griefing.

[James2012 0]

No. No. And No.

If you can't handle getting shot' date=' don't play shooting games. Don't ask for the devs to babysit you.

1. I find nothing more annoying than someone killing someone else, and then them bitching about it in global chat. "OMG HE KILLED ME OMGOMGOMG". Plus, you can lie. That's when the fun really begins.

2. No. That's annoying, especially if you got bandit from self-defense, where self-righteous pricks will shoot on sight out of paranoia or a sense of superiority.

3. No, because if someone misses you and you kill them, but it doesn't register in self-defense, then you die a brutal death. Even if you murder someone brutally, that's part of the survival aspect. Deal with it.

4. No. Again, if you can't handle PVP, don't engage in PVP-encouraging games.

5. Let's not turn this into that zombie frontier RPG.

If you can't handle the inevitability of being shot at in a competitive, survival based scenario, then you shouldn't be placing yourself in a competitive, survival based scenario. It's kind of like if you don't have gills, you shouldn't try living underwater. Don't ask the fish to drain the water. Just leave the ocean.

[/quote']

I understand you like to kill players, And i can pvp, I play all types of fps games. Arma,Arma2,Americans Army,BF3, And all other types of f2p fps game around on the internet,

But pvping just to kill other players is a big problem in this game. Pvping for loot or to survive, i can see how that is a realistic thing.

Also beacuse i mentiong zombie frontier RPG Does Not mean, I whant this game to be a RPG Game. I was just referring too there spawn rate system of Agro. Maybe re-read that part?

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I do not have so much a problem with pvping to survive as i have a problem with players that go out of there way to kill as many other players as they can just because they can.

Of course you don't have a problem with PvP "to survive" because it doesn't exist in the game. Your survival never depends on murdering another human. It's always possible to get supplies in other ways and with less risk than hunting other players.

There are only three legitimate reasons to PvP in the game:

1. It's fun and you want to do it.

2. You want more gear for yourself or your friends.

3. Self defense against the people from 1 and 2.

And since 3 depends on the existence of 1 and 2' date=' there are actually only two reasons to [i']initiate PvP.

There is no such thing as "necessary" PvP and if something were implemented that made it such, the outcry on the forums would be torrential.

[James2012 0]

I do not have so much a problem with pvping to survive as i have a problem with players that go out of there way to kill as many other players as they can just because they can.

Of course you don't have a problem with PvP "to survive" because it doesn't exist in the game. Your survival never depends on murdering another human. It's always possible to get supplies in other ways and with less risk than hunting other players.

There are only three legitimate reasons to PvP in the game:

1. It's fun and you want to do it.

2. You want more gear for yourself or your friends.

3. Self defense against the people from 1 and 2.

And since 3 depends on the existence of 1 and 2' date=' there are actually only two reasons to [i']initiate PvP.

There is no such thing as "necessary" PvP and if something were implemented that made it such, the outcry on the forums would be torrential.

Then how come i hear all the time that players kill to get loot? And that they do it to loot bodys and survive?

So you are saying people are just killing for fun, And making it so players had to kill for a reason, Would completely ruin this game?

[Osiris1 0]

No. No. And No.

If you can't handle getting shot' date=' don't play shooting games. Don't ask for the devs to babysit you.

1. I find nothing more annoying than someone killing someone else, and then them bitching about it in global chat. "OMG HE KILLED ME OMGOMGOMG". Plus, you can lie. That's when the fun really begins.

2. No. That's annoying, especially if you got bandit from self-defense, where self-righteous pricks will shoot on sight out of paranoia or a sense of superiority.

3. No, because if someone misses you and you kill them, but it doesn't register in self-defense, then you die a brutal death. Even if you murder someone brutally, that's part of the survival aspect. Deal with it.

4. No. Again, if you can't handle PVP, don't engage in PVP-encouraging games.

5. Let's not turn this into that zombie frontier RPG.

If you can't handle the inevitability of being shot at in a competitive, survival based scenario, then you shouldn't be placing yourself in a competitive, survival based scenario. It's kind of like if you don't have gills, you shouldn't try living underwater. Don't ask the fish to drain the water. Just leave the ocean.

[/quote']

I understand you like to kill players, And i can pvp, I play all types of fps games. Arma,Arma2,Americans Army,BF3, And all other types of f2p fps game around on the internet,

But pvping just to kill other players is a big problem in this game. Pvping for loot or to survive, i can see how that is a realistic thing.

Also beacuse i mentiong zombie frontier RPG Does Not mean, I whant this game to be a RPG Game. I was just referring too there spawn rate system of Agro. Maybe re-read that part?

Your diction is way off if you actually meant aggro.

I don't go out of my way to kill players, but I also don't like the idea that this feature be penalized just because you don't like that playstyle. If I went on the suggestion forum and said "Hey, let's penalize anyone who doesn't kill another player within an hour by making their bones even more brittle!" you'd likely get on and start ranting as to how unfair that is.

Yet here we are, you trying to justify why your playstyle is the best and anyone who doesn't adhere to it should be punished because nobody plays nice in a PvP-encouraged zombie apocalypse.

[James2012 0]

No. No. And No.

If you can't handle getting shot' date=' don't play shooting games. Don't ask for the devs to babysit you.

1. I find nothing more annoying than someone killing someone else, and then them bitching about it in global chat. "OMG HE KILLED ME OMGOMGOMG". Plus, you can lie. That's when the fun really begins.

2. No. That's annoying, especially if you got bandit from self-defense, where self-righteous pricks will shoot on sight out of paranoia or a sense of superiority.

3. No, because if someone misses you and you kill them, but it doesn't register in self-defense, then you die a brutal death. Even if you murder someone brutally, that's part of the survival aspect. Deal with it.

4. No. Again, if you can't handle PVP, don't engage in PVP-encouraging games.

5. Let's not turn this into that zombie frontier RPG.

If you can't handle the inevitability of being shot at in a competitive, survival based scenario, then you shouldn't be placing yourself in a competitive, survival based scenario. It's kind of like if you don't have gills, you shouldn't try living underwater. Don't ask the fish to drain the water. Just leave the ocean.

[/quote']

I understand you like to kill players, And i can pvp, I play all types of fps games. Arma,Arma2,Americans Army,BF3, And all other types of f2p fps game around on the internet,

But pvping just to kill other players is a big problem in this game. Pvping for loot or to survive, i can see how that is a realistic thing.

Also beacuse i mentiong zombie frontier RPG Does Not mean, I whant this game to be a RPG Game. I was just referring too there spawn rate system of Agro. Maybe re-read that part?

Your diction is way off if you actually meant aggro.

I don't go out of my way to kill players, but I also don't like the idea that this feature be penalized just because you don't like that playstyle. If I went on the suggestion forum and said "Hey, let's penalize anyone who doesn't kill another player within an hour by making their bones even more brittle!" you'd likely get on and start ranting as to how unfair that is.

Yet here we are, you trying to justify why your playstyle is the best and anyone who doesn't adhere to it should be punished because nobody plays nice in a PvP-encouraged zombie apocalypse.

Pvp-encoraged yes, yes it is, And that is my point. All players have to do in this game is just grab some weapon and ammo and kill other players, its all they can do. Which is a pretty lame.

[Osiris1 0]

Pvp-encoraged yes' date=' yes it is, And that is my point. All players have to do in this game is just grab some weapon and ammo and kill other players, its all they can do. Which is a pretty lame.

[/quote']

So is trying to limit others' gamestyles. Stock up on weapons or just deal with the inevitable, because you're always going to get shot at in a competitive survival game.

[tom.dullnig@gmx.net 16]

I do not have so much a problem with pvping to survive as i have a problem with players that go out of there way to kill as many other players as they can just because they can.

Of course you don't have a problem with PvP "to survive" because it doesn't exist in the game. Your survival never depends on murdering another human. It's always possible to get supplies in other ways and with less risk than hunting other players.

There are only three legitimate reasons to PvP in the game:

1. It's fun and you want to do it.

2. You want more gear for yourself or your friends.

3. Self defense against the people from 1 and 2.

And since 3 depends on the existence of 1 and 2' date=' there are actually only two reasons to [i']initiate PvP.

There is no such thing as "necessary" PvP and if something were implemented that made it such, the outcry on the forums would be torrential.

Then how come i hear all the time that players kill to get loot? And that they do it to loot bodys and survive?

So you are saying people are just killing for fun, And making it so players had to kill for a reason, Would completely ruin this game?

I do believe the way you are thinking about PvP in the first place is fundamentally flawed. Killing for loot does not only mean killing for basic supplies to keep you alive, it also involves killing for ammo, tools, backpacks, bincos, nvgs, etc. You are trying to paint a color picture with black and white only, it's not going to work.

That said, there is no issue with PvP in DayZ. PvP was intended to be there in the first place, people just finally need to adapt to not being hand held all the time. In fact, as in many other threads, all of the OP suggestions except radios would make the game yet another MMORPG clone. I can not stress this enough: this was, is and fortunately will not be the way this mod is going.

What many people fail to understand is that this is a modification for a game that was not designed for anything remotely close as DayZ in the first place. Compromises have to be made and workarounds have to be found. There is no easy changing the core engine behind it simply because that most likely needs to be done via the BIS Studios route, not via the DayZ development team. Let me take up the example of progressively changing the player skin:

Each and every modification to the appearance of your character is currently a complete avatar swap, not just a change of skins. There is no such things as easy appearing decals on a base skin.

Finding mechanics that work in such a development environment takes more time than writing a halfbred thread on this forum, pros and cons need to be evalutated based on the core mechanics plus possibilites of the engine behind the mod and not on personal preference.

The first major task to accomplish is fixing the exploits and loopholes in the engines, disconnecting to avoid death, duplicating items just to name a few. Only then it is time to develop mechanics to distinguish players based on their course of action ingame. In the end it's a step by step process and not a sprint into a direction that a (very vocal) minority sees fit.

Forcing your style of play onto someone else fundamentaly defies the idea of a sandbox game. There is no such thing as right or wrong.

TL;DR PvE only: sod off. PvP only: sod off. Fix the core, then develop mechanics to distinguish and let players play their game. Not someone else's.

[DeathHaze420 0]

... I and others suggested a new skin where you look bloodied. So you may look like the other players but your charater has splashes of blood on their clothing' date=' face and hands. This increases with each kill.

[/quote']

I like this idea. Come across a guy with 1-2 murders, his hands are bloody. 4-5 there's some blood on his clothes too. 10+ he's got blood on his face too now. 25+ and he's wearing the blood on his face as a war mask hahahaha