In-need of some clarification.

[ParanoidMoron (DayZ) 5]

1) Is the highly over-exaggerated muzzle flash intentional? Will it ever be toned down for realism sake?

2) For the second question, it's important to read a comment made by a developer.

 

what it comes down to is us really wanting to have the lowest possible number of calibers spawning in the game. Thats why we've only been adding in the most common types (9mm, .45, 12ga, 5.56, 7.62, etc...) and why we've been grouping similar kinds of ammo into one. Its the reason we haven't made a distinction between the mosin, blaze, longhorn, or eventually SVD ammo types. In reality these four are firing two different kinds of 7.62mm rounds but the performance characteristics are more or less the same. There was a time when we weren't even going to delineate between SKS and Mosin ammo but after some "enthusiastic" discussions, 7.62x39 was added (thankfully :)).

So if we add a Makarov pistol, its going to simply fire 9mmP instead 9mmM. If we add an AK74, it'll fire 5.56mm, not 5.45mm. Thats why I haven't added those in. Those of us who are real gun nuts would revolt (but I have a feeling the wider community dosn't give a crap as long as it looks cool :) )

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/266mup/the_longhorn_is_in_and_sounds_awesome_el/choc46p

 

Seeing how the game might be watered down, just to simplify an aspect crucial for survival, such as searching for supplies, is extremely disappointing. Wasn't DayZ supposed to provide some sort of authenticity? Rocket himself stated, he wants to have firearms portrayed in an authentic fashion. This begs the question - will there be a distinction between different cartridges? As in, Mosin uses 7.62x54R, Blase 7.62x51mm, AK74 uses 5.45x39, M4A1 - 5.56x45, etc.

Edited June 21, 2014 by ParanoidMoron

[LanceroxD (DayZ) 75]

yhea

[MarchHare 184]

Muzzle flash tone down?

No idea.

Ammo variety?

Don't care, I only pack 2 kinds.  .357 and .22.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Seeing how the game might be watered down, just to simplify an aspect crucial for survival, such as searching for supplies, is extremely disappointing. Wasn't DayZ supposed to provide some sort of authenticity? Rocket himself stated, he wants to have firearms portrayed in an authentic fashion. This begs the question - will there be a distinction between different cartridges? As in, Mosin uses 7.62x54R, Blase 7.62x51mm, AK74 uses 5.45x39, M4A1 - 5.56x45, etc.

 

Is strapping a splint to yourself and having it instantly fix a broken leg authentic?

They can't make it fully authentic, why make it perfectly emulate real life in some aspects, but not others?

 

And if you add different ammo types then that reduces how common all others are like 9mmP or 9mmM, I don't know what one is in game I know fuck all about ammo types but if they added the other type in then they have to about half the drops of the other one, meaning there's a good chance that all the ammo you find doesn't fit in your gun and it would suck.

 

Granted less ammo would be good but adding more types to reduce how much of what you need you actually get isn't a good way to go about it.

 

Being able to make our own would be cool though just so they don't have to change in game drops just add gunpowder and make it so you can reuse casings plus scrap metal like I suggested earlier to make the bullets out of.

I'd like more variety, like hand made hollow points etc but different types would make loot drops annoying.

[ParanoidMoron (DayZ) 5]

Is strapping a splint to yourself and having it instantly fix a broken leg authentic?

They can't make it fully authentic, why make it perfectly emulate real life in some aspects, but not others?

 

And if you add different ammo types then that reduces how common all others are like 9mmP or 9mmM, I don't know what one is in game I know fuck all about ammo types but if they added the other type in then they have to about half the drops of the other one, meaning there's a good chance that all the ammo you find doesn't fit in your gun and it would suck.

 

Granted less ammo would be good but adding more types to reduce how much of what you need you actually get isn't a good way to go about it.

 

Being able to make our own would be cool though just so they don't have to change in game drops just add gunpowder and make it so you can reuse casings plus scrap metal like I suggested earlier to make the bullets out of.

I'd like more variety, like hand made hollow points etc but different types would make loot drops annoying.

 

 

Are zombies realistic? Is 3rd person realistic? Why can we eat a whole pack of rice in 10 seconds? No, it isn't. Yet, these things are still in the game.

 

Taking some liberties when it comes to the game is acceptable. Especially when certain functions would impede the gameplay experience in a very negative way, however watering down the game to simplify the attainment of loot (a crucial aspect of the game) goes against everything that DayZ stands for. Why should the attainment of loot be simplified? Even more so, when getting fully geared takes 30 minutes.  

 

No game can ever be fully authentic, nor am I asking for it. I'm just asking for realistic representation of firearms - guns using the proper cartridge. If you raise the question of different ammo types, were you silent about different magazine types? That too, makes the game challenging.  

 

 

Also, what happened to the bullet hits rendering at long range? Is it intentional?

Edited June 21, 2014 by ParanoidMoron

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Are zombies realistic? Is 3rd person realistic? Why can we eat a whole pack of rice in 10 seconds? No, it isn't. Yet, these things are still in the game.

 

Taking some liberties when it comes to the game is acceptable. Especially when certain functions would impede the gameplay experience in a very negative way, however watering down the game to simplify the attainment of loot (a crucial aspect of the game) goes against everything that DayZ stands for. Why should the attainment of loot be simplified? Even more so, when getting fully geared takes 30 minutes.  

 

No game can ever be fully authentic, nor am I asking for it. I'm just asking for realistic representation of firearms - guns using the proper cartridge. If you raise the question of different ammo types, were you silent about different magazine types? That too, makes the game challenging.  

 

 

Also, what happened to the bullet hits rendering at long range? Is it intentional?

 

Well that's my point it's just one of the things like eating rice in 10 seconds that won't be realistic ever, most likely.

 

I mean where do you stop with the ammo types? There are thousands of types of ammo and guns to match if they want to add one gun that has slightly different rounds they have to add a whole new ammo type to the mix for one gun, to the point where ammo would need to be everywhere or the ammo you need would practically be nowhere.

 

If they did add loads more they'd be bombarded with whiners wanting things like .50 cal rounds, explosive rounds etc, there should be less guns and ammo in the game not more currently it's just a big CoD deathmatch if they added tons of guns and ammo to match that would just get worse and worse, it's better to make the current ammo scarce.

[ParanoidMoron (DayZ) 5]

Well that's my point it's just one of the things like eating rice in 10 seconds that won't be realistic ever, most likely.

 

I mean where do you stop with the ammo types? There are thousands of types of ammo and guns to match if they want to add one gun that has slightly different rounds they have to add a whole new ammo type to the mix for one gun, to the point where ammo would need to be everywhere or the ammo you need would practically be nowhere.

 

If they did add loads more they'd be bombarded with whiners wanting things like .50 cal rounds, explosive rounds etc, there should be less guns and ammo in the game not more currently it's just a big CoD deathmatch if they added tons of guns and ammo to match that would just get worse and worse, it's better to make the current ammo scarce.

 

You seem to imply they'll add gazillion of guns that all use "slightly different rounds". I fail to see that materializing. BTW, 9x18 isn't slightly different that 9x19....

 

Having more calibers =/= having more ammo.

 it's better to make the current ammo scarce

 

 

Introducing proper cartridges (while naturally not increasing the overall amount of ammo spawned in the game world) WOULD make the usable ammo more scarce. Now, instead of finding 3 packs of 7.62x51, the player would instead come across 1 pack of 7.62x51 and 2 packs of 7.62x54R.

Edited June 22, 2014 by ParanoidMoron

[UltimateGentleman 355]

You seem to imply they'll add gazillion of guns that all use "slightly different rounds". I fail to see that materializing. BTW, 9x18 isn't slightly different that 9x19....

 

Having more calibers =/= having more ammo.

 

Introducing proper cartridges (while naturally not increasing the overall amount of ammo spawned in the game world) WOULD make the usable ammo more scarce. Now, instead of finding 3 packs of 7.62x51, the player would instead come across 1 pack of 7.62x51 and 2 packs of 7.62x54R.

 

But why would all this be in Chernaus? It's bad enough that there's U.S gear why have so many ammo types when the current amount does the job? It's doubtful there'd be more than a handful of different types the army would all use the same standard rifle and ammo then the police would probably just have the magnum rounds, 9mm, 45acp and shotgun rounds. This isn't a place that has much variety there isn't even a gun store, least not yet.

Considering the Mosins and Blaze's there's probably supposed to have been hunters, they probably just got their ammo from the army bases.

Rather than a shop stocked with all the kinds of ammo you could want.

 

Frankly the people that care about ammo types are a tiny minority so while other things stay unrealistic like eating I don't see why that should be so specific, does it really matter? I'd rather they just add new guns that work fine or spend time on adding animations and whatnot than have to work in new ammo.

What do we have now we've got the SKS ammo, Mosin/Blaze, M4, forgot what the AKM uses, magnum rounds, 9mm, 45acp, shotgun shells, air pellets, bolts and composite arrows.

How many more do you want?

 

Granted it would be awesome if M4 bandits almost never found the ammo they needed or mags with only like 3 rounds in them etc but overall it would make guns pretty crap since ammo is so rare, hunting and killing zombies would be such a chore without them.

Unless it's realistic to have to take on 30 zombies with a fire axe and win.

[ParanoidMoron (DayZ) 5]

snip

 

Why would 7.62x54R be in Chernarus? Maybe due to the fact that Chernarus military forces used Soviet made weaponry?

How many do I want? As many as it would take to make the firearms use the correct cartridge. 

 

 

Frankly, I don't see how adding cartridges used by the different weapons systems in Chernarus would be detrimental to the gamepley. Doing so, would actually reinforce your point about making ammo scarce - that is, the ammo you can utilize for your weapon isn't as easy to get (see my previous comment).

 

I just want to see the proper cartridges introduced down the road: 7.62X54R (SVD, Mosin), 5.45x39 (AK-74/74M, AKS-74U, RPK-74). Using 5.56 rounds in an AK-74 takes away immersion, realism and it simply waters down the game.

Edited June 22, 2014 by ParanoidMoron

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I just want to see the proper cartridges introduced down the road: 7.62X54R (SVD, Mosin), 5.45x39 (AK-74/74M, AKS-74U, RPK-74). Using 5.56 rounds in an AK-74 takes away immersion, realism and it simply waters down the game.

 

But in the scope of the game, does it matter? Does food being cooked in a minute keep you immersed? Does the whole deal with morphine and bandages instantly stopping bleeding? Surely it's not that big an issue.

 

I'd rather play the game and not have to be an expert on ammunition.

 

More types would mean each type is more scarce but overall ammo would have to be more common or you'd get pointlessly low amounts of each type, plus it would make it even harder to deal with bandits who've hoarded 30 M4/AKM clips between themselves while you're stuck not even being able to find the right 9mm ammo to even have a hope of defending yourself.

[ParanoidMoron (DayZ) 5]

But in the scope of the game, does it matter? Does food being cooked in a minute keep you immersed? Does the whole deal with morphine and bandages instantly stopping bleeding? Surely it's not that big an issue.

 

I'd rather play the game and not have to be an expert on ammunition.

 

More types would mean each type is more scarce but overall ammo would have to be more common or you'd get pointlessly low amounts of each type, plus it would make it even harder to deal with bandits who've hoarded 30 M4/AKM clips between themselves while you're stuck not even being able to find the right 9mm ammo to even have a hope of defending yourself.

 

Yes, it does matter. As far as I recall, this game was supposed to be authentic not substitute realism for the lowest common denominator. Why would we have magazines for the firearms then? Might as well remove them to simplify things (something you are very fond of). This game takes the time to introduce magazines that are necessary for the function a of a lot firearms in the game, yet doesn't introduce proper cartridges for the firearms. Or lets just have one kind of pistol magazine that fits in all handguns, just so you don't need to find the right magazine. After all, we can bandage ourselves in 15 seconds, why should have have different magazines for different handguns? 

 

Expert on ammunition? What makes you think you'll have to be one. It's not rockets science. 

 

No, it wouldn't. You're trying to prove a point by making assumptions.

 

Either way ff the bandits can hoard ammo, why can't you? They spent time doing so. You can, as well.

 

 

If you want to sacrifice authenticity for accessibility, be my guest.

 

EDIT. This thread wasn't made for the purpose of discussion, but rather clarification. You can keep arguing, but the fact of the matter is - the game is being watered down.

Edited June 22, 2014 by ParanoidMoron

[Bororm 1156]

People complaining about muzzle flashes now?  Jesus Christ.

[gibonez 3633]

Are zombies realistic? Is 3rd person realistic? Why can we eat a whole pack of rice in 10 seconds? No, it isn't. Yet, these things are still in the game.

 

Problem is inconsistency.

 

Somethings in Dayz are ultra realistic in a sense such as the relatively complex medical system where healing is done over time or requires a blood transfusion with the correct blood type.

 

Then theres the ultra unrealistic, mosin nagants shooting .308 winchester and a silly accessory dispersion system where it does not matter where the gun is pointing as it has 0 correspondence to where the bullets will hit.

 

The inconsistency is what bugs me so much.

 

either go full blown unrealistic, unreal tournament movement casual accessible game or go full blown simulation, realism and authentic zombie survival game.

 

Picking and choosing elements of each leads to a terrible game IE standalone.

 

 

 

People complaining about muzzle flashes now?  Jesus Christ.

 

 

as they should they are downright comical looks like its straight out of an 80s action movie.

Edited June 22, 2014 by gibonez

[ParanoidMoron (DayZ) 5]

Problem is inconsistency.

 

Somethings in Dayz are ultra realistic in a sense such as the relatively complex medical system where healing is done over time or requires a blood transfusion with the correct blood type.

 

Then theres the ultra unrealistic, mosin nagants shooting .308 winchester and a silly accessory dispersion system where it does not matter where the gun is pointing as it has 0 correspondence to where the bullets will hit.

 

The inconsistency is what bugs me so much.

 

either go full blown unrealistic, unreal tournament movement casual accessible game or go full blown simulation, realism and authentic zombie survival game.

 

Picking and choosing elements of each leads to a terrible game IE standalone.

 

 

 

 

 

as they should they are downright comical looks like its straight out of an 80s action movie.

 

Pretty much agree on all accounts.

[Daemonkid 493]

 

 

Frankly the people that care about ammo types are a tiny minority.

 

 

 

Actually, we are a majority. Because it's good for gameplay. Regardless of what you think practical application as proven otherwise.

[eleventhavenue 204]

I don't get the whole ´´It can't be perfectly realistic and therefore any suggestions to make it slightly more realistic are EVIL AND WRONG´´ thing.

Gameplay > Realism, but this is good for both gameplay AND realism. Therefore, it is a must.

And as the OP says, the whole searching for supplies thing is one of the main concepts of DayZ, and it should not be watered down.