End Game...

[Hendrix (DayZ) 14]

This is a thread that started on the patch notes forums but ii conveys what I think would be good for end game and why....

RE: Pending Update: Build 1.7.2

(Today 07:37 PM)Kageru Wrote: Every notch by which you increase zombie danger increases the PvP/PK penalty (it's much harder to re-gear) and the new player retention rate (it's much harder to survive) if the threat is not graduated. If zombies on a non-enterable, non-loot spawning beach front house are as tough as those at the air-ports you are challenging your new players far more than the armed and organised veterans and that will cost you retention.

If you think new players are going to form organized groups in response, when there is no in-game mechanic to encourage that (like a safe starting point, communication or temporary PK protection), when most don't have out of game social groups, and when actally meeting allies is a matter of luck and substantial time you are probably being too optimistic. Most will just die repeatedly and stop playing.

In other words I hope zombie challenge is being considered as part of the global mechanics and how the game is functioning now (a hard core PvP game). Harder isn't always better, especially if it's applied universally.

I think this is a key part of the difficulty when balancing this game. the game was largely created into this beast by the hardcore then all the new players that may or may not stay around longterm have influxed in and made it a bit of a cultural phenomenon so as a game designer the question is who do you please first the hardcore guys who made you or the newer players that need care bearing.

I don't envy rockets dilema but I understand it needs to be a little of both. From my personal experiences in the game. When I started playing it was post the 1.7.1.5 so I had only heard about starting with a gun and beans and it was brutally hard for me. I never played arma 2 and didn't know the maps, I am a grown man and don't really know any teens boys to party with...because that would be odd... and had never watched any youtube demo's or looked at any map's with the loot tables on them.

Since then I just briefly looked at the wiki and mostly just so I could figure out game systems like cooking and hinting and also what buildings have doors to enter and which are just window dressing and where the good spawns are. I still havn't gotten down routes for the deer stands or vehicles or even found a tent spawn that wasn't bugged out...sigh...(yay I found a tent bag....boo I can't pick it up)

but now I have figured out spawn routes through at least one of the major costal cities that will net me a gun,axe,hunting knife,canteen matchbook,medical supplies and probably a backpack in about 20-40 minutes or less depending on where I spawn.

None of the original difficulty I had exists now. Except with learning to stop running to shoot but soon enough I'll do that second nature too. Basically once you get an axe, knife, and matchbook and a canteen you have nothing to fear from dying in the wild, you can cook food infinitely and refill water at wells ponds and lakes...so then what? Live in the forest like survivor man next to a pond hunting cows for the 8 steaks they drop hoping noone spawns in next to you and shoots you so you can climb the all time ladder, every now and then refilling your canteen when you run dry? ....

With no endgame figuring out that stuff "is the game" Most of what I have discovered has been in game and I like it that way I avoid the full scale online treasure maps and such so that I can discover vehicle spawns and go on a treak and find out what is actually at devil's castle when I get a map...that is what makes the game for players like me; but the the issue is what about the people playing in teams that probably youtube everything and play this using all the outside sources of info or who may have played arma 2 before and are intimately familiar with this map who largely have zero challenge even from zombies?

Also what about people that had a rough start like I did, but have less patience ...because make no mistake I died alot untill I got mechanic's down and even had about 3 days where I was gonna drop the game entirely untill I started figuring out routes and spawn locations for some key stuff and the infinite food and drink loop mechanic was revealed in my reading of the wiki....thats when the game opened up...that and when I first saw a map in game and figured out how big it really was...and all I hadn't yet discovered.

So the question is how to balance both ends...end game content and quality of life. I believe quality of life should take precident but I also recognize end game needs bumps as well. I think things that encourage community though would be better then a difficulty spike.

A crafting system that would allow for specialization in only one route would be nice....like if you work tirelessly on medical stuff you can become a medic with certain medical bonus abilities or a hunter could learn to craft clothing, tools,traps(for zombies or players) or weapons out of animal parts and salvaged scrap or engineers could make improvised attachements or mod weapons like sawing off a shotty to put it in your handgun slot or moding your rifle so that it could have a flshlight on it things like that would make you want to specialize and make people need each other as they need you alive to do what they can't opposed to want to kill each other, then they can add minigames and contests like fishing...hunting....zombie killing ect and post stats for them and in game prizes like special tents or clothing items ....that's my two cents anyway...

[Ceeps 0]

Since it's rather a sandbox game, you can make your own goals. Maybe you havn't found and repaired a helicopter yet? Maybe you havn't found a good team of survivors to coordinate with on teamspeak, vent, or skype?

Challenges that remain for me: racking up zombie kills to top the leaderboards, or racking up player kills to top the bandit leaderboards (and NOT get shot along the way.) If I were completely alone on any server, I'm confident I could run around collecting ammo, never dying to zombies, hitting different buildings to find ammo, food and water. This would be boring for me. So I'm with you on 'there's no fun running around surviving in the woods'. To me, killing zombies is the same.

Finding players make things interesting. I've talked my way out of a building that 2 guys could have easily shot me when I came out. I've been demolished by bandits. I've sniped the shit out people. I've been sniped and got away, and I've been sniped and didn't make it.

If people are impatient and can't take the tough start of the game, then they shouldn't play it. I have a friend who whined and complained when the rest of our friends got on. It was too hard with only a flashlight, he said. He ragequit and never came back because now he doesn't start with a pistol and the zombies always see him (because he always runs and had no patience). Some people won't like the game, and that's fine.

The game shouldn't cater to casual players. Make it interesting for the ones who stuck around, and enjoy it for what it is.

I'm not sure I understand what 'endgame' you mean, or want.

Minigames don't seem possible, or likely, given what the engine is capable of doing. Crafting systems are absolutely possible, and I'd support those.