Social incentives needed

[Stridsbulten 9]

So, I have been playing DayZ for quite a while now and enjoyed everything from being killed to killing other players. I don't mind the fact that the biggest threat out there are other players. I don't mind that there are bandits. I don't mind that some people are scared and rather shoot first, direct comm later.

What I DO mind is that there are no incentives to NOT shoot a random player. In fact, there are more incentives to kill him than to not. This means the game basically turns into an elaborate deathmatch setting rather than a survival game. I am not sure that is what was intended...

When I started playing a long time ago, I think most encounters with random players had a friendly outcome. You didn't even need to use direct voice to cooperate, you just did. Since a few weeks ago, I would say it is the complete opposite. It has become extremely rare to find scenarios where either party doesn't open up straight away. And I have lost count of the number of times I have been shot without ever seeing the shooter (either sniped or shot from behind).

I would love it if Rocket came up with a reason to make us think twice before shooting other people (and no, the fact that blood bags need to be administered by someone else is not incetive enough). At the very least, let us create persistent communities within the game that allow us to recognize other members of that group (customization now is to limited to create a visual identity and there is no way to create a group identity by use of logo, armband or other visual marker).

[Glycerine 2]

When I started playing a long time ago

The rest of your post says otherwise. We needed another thread about this too, no really, we did.

[AcucracK 0]

I agree that in the past couple of weeks people have just started opening fire on anything that moves. One of the reasons I think it got worse was the dropping of the side chat. Now it's very hard to figure out if someone is friendly at all, and it's much easier to just take them down instead of waiting to find out, or trying to salute, or use in game VoiP.

I am lucky to have 7 other friends who play and we can use vent to communicate. It makes it an absolute blast to all try and survive together. We have had some great experiences for sure.

Not sure what could possibly be done to give intensives for working together though... Maybe something like if you are in a group, the drop rates for rarer items go up a bit? Otherwise the only intensive right now to not blow the random guys head off you just met is the possibility of just plain having a unique survival experience as a group instead of just going it alone.

Maybe the player killing will start to go down as time goes on. I mean bandits are part of the game for sure, but if all you wan't to do is kill other players in a video game, they have made a few of those types of games already.

[Stridsbulten 9]

Yeah, the problem though is that few other games give a greif killer the same level of satisfaction as this game does. Killing someone in Call of Duty is not the same as killing someone in a game where you know they spent hours collecting the gear they just lost to your hand. I am sure I am not the only one in Dayz who have been killed multiple times without being looted (coming back to your corpse finding your NVG's and other nice items still on your body is pretty much proof of that).

The only time I get random player on player cooperation these days is when I am freshly spawned and meet other freshly spawned people - simply because you have nothing to lose.

[Kageru 18]

No non-PvP end-game, most of the gear is weaponry and mechanics of using it, limited ways of forming ad-hoc co-operation, no dis-incentive for PK, strong incentive for PK (safer, weakens a threat, causes some to cry at losing their gear, free loot if you are short), massive advantages to opening a conflict from ambush (+NVG, +sniper range).

It's a PvP game for the forseeable future, take a break and keep an eye on the patch notes if that's not what you want.

[Macenzie 79]

What the hell is wrong with PVP? People are ALWAYS going to want to shoot each other when you give them guns.

[Kageru 18]

Depends on if you are making a zombie survival game or a squad based PvP game. Some people mistakenly think this is the former.

[duddbudda 33]

Depends on if you are making a zombie survival game or a squad based PvP game. Some people mistakenly think this is the former.

you spam every thread with your bullshit

but you are provably wrong

see sig or do the math for yourself @ dayzmod.com

for OP

team play is already massively advantageous and does not need artificial bonuses to sell it to idiots who can't see the benefit

armbands are OK, but anything more is superflous

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

There are plenty of existing social incentives, and more to come, but they are not going to magically arise out of a random stranger you bump into - nor should they. Put effort into establishing contact and building trust, then you can reap many benefits.

I don't know about you but I don't think the game designers should be worrying about helping us make friends. Let them focus on game mechanics and features. Human beings already have the capacity to make contact and communicate with one another about our desires. Why waste valuable programmer time coming up with pretty, colorful ways to represent these relationships on the screen when its really the out of game stuff that matters to us anyway?

[coolio101 0]

A friend spawned on the coast, met another survivor and they went together looking for supplies. The other one beat him to an axe, and killed him.

You can find players to team up if you are willing to risk it.

[Sticker704 121]

Agreed here, once I was holed up in a barn where another survivor came in with a bunch of zombies in his tail. Usually, I would have just killed him as he could probably see the chem light, but if I shot him, I would have to kill the zed myself.

[Keurk 4]

you can think twice before shooting on sight

"hum, here is a guy, if i don't shoot him, he'll shot me

-ok letz do it"

BOOM

[jk_scowling 44]

I agree that in the past couple of weeks people have just started opening fire on anything that moves. One of the reasons I think it got worse was the dropping of the side chat. Now it's very hard to figure out if someone is friendly at all' date=' and it's much easier to just take them down instead of waiting to find out, or trying to salute, or use in game VoiP.

[/quote']

Started happening before dropping of side chat as I recall.

[Keurk 4]

I agree that in the past couple of weeks people have just started opening fire on anything that moves. One of the reasons I think it got worse was the dropping of the side chat. Now it's very hard to figure out if someone is friendly at all' date=' and it's much easier to just take them down instead of waiting to find out, or trying to salute, or use in game VoiP.

[/quote']

Started happening before dropping of side chat as I recall.

this

+ side chat was worse for players, lot of idiots constantly saying "hey im in cherno church ,blabla" and they are surprised when they die. THATS AWESOME i love when nuups used the chat a lot,but it was too easy. thats better now!

[nacrom 82]

There are plenty of existing social incentives' date=' and more to come, but they are not going to magically arise out of a random stranger you bump into - nor should they. Put effort into establishing contact and building trust, then you can reap many benefits.

I don't know about you but I don't think the game designers should be worrying about helping us make friends. Let them focus on game mechanics and features. Human beings already have the capacity to make contact and communicate with one another about our desires. Why waste valuable programmer time coming up with pretty, colorful ways to represent these relationships on the screen when its really the out of game stuff that matters to us anyway?

[/quote']

+1

[Survivor-Kyle 148]

I've twice met other players and not shot on sight. Once was even in the Balota Airfield, and neither of us killed the other.

Last night I was in Electro and trailing 20+ zeds on my tail. While running someone direct commed me and asked if I was friendly. I had no idea who or where they were, so I miced back that I was. As I ran out of town an unknown person shot and killed the last zed who was on my tail.

Not everyone is hostile.

The medic threads show that, once people fire of pvp, other options will be explored. Just have faith in your fellow man (and don't be a total dumbass). Humanity will surface on its own.

[Kageru 18]

The medic threads show that' date=' once people fire of pvp, other options will be explored. Just have faith in your fellow man (and don't be a total dumbass). Humanity will surface on its own.

[/quote']

... you realize in the last medic thread update he was repeatedly gunned down by a variety of unseen assailants?

[Brenelael 1]

Rocket is aware of this and has stated numerous times that eventually he will put in more of an "End Game" to encourage cooperation between survivors. I wouldn't however expect any drastic changes to the PvP system already in place. This is a PvP survival game and both go hand in hand. What he wants to implement is more along the lines of things that people would have to do together like building an encampment, fixing a power station or even controlling a town. I think he even mentioned some sort of trade system somewhere along the way.

These things will take a lot of time to implement and this mod is still in it's infancy right now so we all have to be patient. Right now what is driving the "Deathmatch" atmosphere is once you get geared up there isn't a whole lot to do but PvP. That will change slowly over time. Give Rocket a chance to show us what he has in store for us. Rome wasn't built in a day you know.

[Survivor-Kyle 148]

The medic threads show that' date=' once people fire of pvp, other options will be explored. Just have faith in your fellow man (and don't be a total dumbass). Humanity will surface on its own.

[/quote']

... you realize in the last medic thread update he was repeatedly gunned down by a variety of unseen assailants?

Yes, but the fact that the Wasteland MD's thread is full of Medics and the fact that there are now multiple people trying the 'Medic experiment' would indicate that, in spite of rampant banditry, people are still giving it a go.

It's a VERY difficult play style. So it only makes sense that people try it once they feel like they've 'beaten' the PvP version of the game (or just gotten bored).

[Kageru 18]

Rocket is aware of this and has stated numerous times that eventually he will put in more of an "End Game" to encourage cooperation between survivors.

I think both sides of the community believe rocket champions their style of play. Quotes from him saying the PvP is currently a larger part of the than intended, quotes saying Day-Z is not a PvP game and lots of others saying PvP is a large part of the game. Meanwhile his recent changes have largely encouraged PK behaviour by making communication more risky and removing one disincentive (which was cosmetic anyway).

I think everyone realises most of the game mechanics are going to be those inherited from Arma-II for quite a while. But a statement of direction might help if he wants to keep the casuals and non-PvP audience. Because I have complete confidence the PvP guys are more rewarded, more motivated, more organized and going to be killing them repeatedly. And some of them will complain about it but a lot more will just stop playing.

Of course I could also see why he'd just leave it a mystery. Gives him more design freedom, sells more copies of Arma-II and lets the community evolve towards wherever it does.

Meh, I hate this thread title anyway. There are lots of social incentives, the good PvP guys travel in groups for a reason. It's non-PvP mechanics and incentives that are lacking.