Is the game basically over once you have piles of loot?

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

There's no risk PVP'ing in this game, because you can regain your gear too fast (and almost immediatly if you have friends). It's the opposite: not shooting at anyone puts you in a huge disadvantage, in fact playing it as a "bandit" is tons easier.. that's why almost anyone shots on sight, because it's easier and you have nothing to lose.

(you aren't giving you position, since you can disconnect after you finished your job.. for the time any possible "listener" comes to you.. you're already eating your pizza)

[Keurk 4]

what most of thoses posts show is Sandbox concept is pretty new to the majority and they just completly fail understanding it. That's sad. Having restrictions or penalties in an apocalypse world where there is no laws at all except your own is D U M B.

[Jack Dant 158]

There's no risk PVP'ing in this game' date=' because you can regain your gear too fast (and almost immediatly if you have friends). It's the opposite: not shooting at anyone puts you in a huge disadvantage, in fact playing it as a "bandit" is tons easier.. that's why almost anyone shots on sight, because it's easier and you have nothing to lose.[/quote']

If it was so easy to regain your gear, why would all the survivors cry so much about getting killed? Yes, organized groups have an advantage, but they still need to collect that gear (duping issues aside).

(you aren't giving you position, since you can disconnect after you finished your job.. for the time any possible "listener" comes to you.. you're already eating your pizza)

Yes, but that's a cheat (which needs fixing). If we are going to take cheats into account when arguing game balance, we are going to be here forever.

If you play the game properly, without disconnecting every time you are in danger, PVP is quite risky.

[Kageru 18]

So you prefer risk-free PVP?

Risk? It's a game dofus.

MMO PvP is generally all about using persistence, position, ambush and numbers to stack things in your favor. In an MMO it's at best a diversion on the side (with the exception of GW2 which is doing it right, set gear and instant max level). Good PvP happens when the two sides have equal gear, equal awareness and a balanced environment to fight over. Even better if you don't have to spend a lot of down-time between the action.

Even if I wanted Arma-II style PvP I'd play Arma rather than this mod.

[Jack Dant 158]

So you prefer risk-free PVP?

Risk? It's a game dofus.

:huh: Thanks' date=' I hadn't noticed that. So I guess I can stop stockpiling beans under my bed now?

Good PvP happens when the two sides have equal gear, equal awareness and a balanced environment to fight over.

Wow, that's about the most boring PVP I can think of. About as fun as flipping a coin.

The very best PVP is not like that. It's the small group who uses better tactics to beat a larger group. It's knowingly running into an ambush with an ace up your sleeve, then turning the tables on them. It's about getting forced into a fight then barely making it out.

That's the kind of PVP that makes you leave the computer shaking with adrenaline. And it's completely impossible to get it in a game where you can just instantly respawn with all the gear you need. Because who cares about all that if there's no consequence to winning or losing?

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

There's no risk PVP'ing in this game' date=' because you can regain your gear too fast (and almost immediatly if you have friends). It's the opposite: not shooting at anyone puts you in a huge disadvantage, in fact playing it as a "bandit" is tons easier.. that's why almost anyone shots on sight, because it's easier and you have nothing to lose.[/quote']

If it was so easy to regain your gear, why would all the survivors cry so much about getting killed? Yes, organized groups have an advantage, but they still need to collect that gear (duping issues aside).

Who's crying exactly? PvP'ers only "cries" about: zeds too strong (they won't be annoyed by zeds while PvP'ing), and ppl disconnecting (nor because of their loot, but because they doesn't have another kill accounted to their counters).

(you aren't giving you position, since you can disconnect after you finished your job.. for the time any possible "listener" comes to you.. you're already eating your pizza)

Yes, but that's a cheat (which needs fixing). If we are going to take cheats into account when arguing game balance, we are going to be here forever.

If you play the game properly, without disconnecting every time you are in danger, PVP is quite risky.

Not everytime you're in danger.. but after you finished what you were doing: u kill the unaware chap, then u disconnect to do something else... the time someone have listened you shooting, you're already elsewere. No one is forcing me to stay on the server. ;)

[Gibbonici 9]

I think for most parts its not about getting the bestest 3733t3$t überLoot. Its the journey that can be very interesting or very boring' date=' dependen on your actions and encounters.

[/quote']

This. Totally this.

Loot isn't a goal in a sandbox game, it's just a tool to enable whatever way you choose to play it.

I think a lot of people are coming from on-rails theme parks where every aspect of those games is about progression, and when they land on the southern beach they automatically play with the progression mentality instead of a sandbox one. And when they've "beaten" the available progression gameplay they're stuck.

In a sandbox game the onus is on the player to make their own goals and choose their own way to play. It can be daunting and frustrating (DayZ being a incomplete alpha) but it's also incredibly liberating and rewarding - far more so than the epeening that theme park style games provide, IMO.

I'm not meaning to troll or criticise loot-centric players, I'm just pointing out that sandboxes and theme parks provide entirely different experiences. And that coming from one to the other is going to take some adjusting to.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Good PvP happens when the two sides have equal gear' date=' equal awareness and a balanced environment to fight over.[/quote']

Good? Sounds like boring, mainstream, same-bullshit-we've-had-for-15-years-and-hasn't- worked-for-shit PvP if you ask me. No thanks. If you want "fair and balanced" there are plenty of rainbow-sprikled MMOs out there for you right now. Alterac Valley with zombies, here we come...

Good PvP lets me use my brain to gain whatever advantages the world has to offer over my lesser skilled opponents, and doesn't coddle them and hold their hands and make sure everything is fair and even and balanced and they get all the same chances as me to make big pretty numbers bounce around on the screen because the game rules and UI strictly enforce mediocrity.

---

Risk? It's a game dofus.

Umm, okay? Right. Are you suggesting that risk/reward scenarios are not absolutely central to almost every game in the history of mankind? Poker? Chess? Come on, man.

[maizel 1]

I do agree the game needs more stuff to do.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

There's no risk PVP'ing in this game' date=' because you can regain your gear too fast (and almost immediatly if you have friends). [/quote']

Fact is, this is only true because of the extreme levels of item duplication that are taking place both accidentally and purposefully. Once rocket patches some of the data integrity holes as the Alpha matures, it's going to be far more difficult for small- and medium-sized groups to have such a ready supply of things like NVGs and high-value ammunition and rifles.

Unfortunately right now it's dead easy for groups to dupe entire tent's or vehicle's worth of weapons and ammo, and that means they're not pressed for supplies like they should be.

Once they are, you and a few guerillas can really put the pinch on even a decently-sized group by picking off their members and scavenging their gear.

[commiedic (DayZ) 0]

I was thinking about roleplaying a park ranger. Where I cruise around on an ATV with a rifle in camo gear.

If I see people poaching animals in the forest I will give them a verbal warning to pay a fine(some valuable item). If they refuse to pay than a lethal action may be required to further protect the wildlife of Chernarus.

[ledzepploid 0]

Lol I like your idea commiedic.

I read that Rocket said it would only take him about an hour for him to incorporate another map into day z because day z is modular, or something to that effect. Once the mod is finished I can see there being plenty to do with multiple maps.

Perhaps you will only be able to collect things from particular maps. And maybe you have to cross one map to reach a boat or some other kind of transport in order to join a server running whatever map requires that form of transport to get to. Not sure if such a thing is possible, but I think it would be pretty cool.

[Kageru 18]

Chess is balanced... you don't get to play with 6 queens on the basis that you went and got some extras earlier. And you don't risk, you lose or win the game and start another because it's about the challenge and strategies.

It's the same reason Counter-strike has been played competitively and "hidden, NVG, long distance ambush on unsuspecting target" isn't ever going to be. Arma-II might be, but never played it (it would probably be boring though, a large map plus high damage attacks from ambush enforce a very cautious gameplay).

[BL1P 252]

Ive reached that point a few times now.

What I tend to do is.

Start scouting for Vehicles or camps.

What I want to do is then start rescuing new spawners on the coast.

Taking them to an area set up with a tent for new players to take gear from.

Problem is tents got reset so ive been restocking my new tents and getting ready to create the respawner tent/tents.

Ive also created my own little mini games where ive followed players to find camps.

Searched for ubber rare items nvgs/mountain dew/rangefinder.

Searched for heli crashes.

Collected quad bikes

Tried to fill an enemy camp with tin cans.

Placing 1 raw meat in every empty tent I find....

Once the server hoppers problem is fixed.

Ill be creating bases.

Destroying bases.

Fortifying towns.

As long as someone cant magically appear in the base/town/building by server hopping that is anyway .

Once something new comes out to make murdering wankers distinguishable from survivors Ill be hunting Bandits again.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Chess is balanced...

Poker isn't. If you get dealt shit hands all night long, you have to use your brain to beat me instead of your cards. Good players can do this extremely well using a combination of experience, intuition and manipulation.

Overcoming imbalance is an important part of game theory and military strategy as well. And it's an important part of DayZ. Find weaknesses and exploit them. You have every tool at your disposal to restore balance or upset it in your favor if you so choose.

If you don't want to, though, please don't come here expecting the designers to do it for you.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

There's no risk PVP'ing in this game' date=' because you can regain your gear too fast (and almost immediatly if you have friends). [/quote']

Fact is, this is only true because of the extreme levels of item duplication that are taking place both accidentally and purposefully.

Me or my friends never duplicate anything... we're just "many", so we have some space to collect multiple items: i example every day we can potentially double our arsenal, just visiting the military spawn points.. when any of us dies (dies all together is a pretty rare occurrence.. nor that it wouldn't happens, but it's just so rare), the others are reado to keep him at the respawn and equip him back with his own stuff, or with fresh new stuff.

That's the reality... this is why im perfectly fine with the current PvP.. you basically have no enemies! You may ecounter another big clan, but both parties aren't interested to do so. But i admitt honestly that this is like playing Arma2 vanilla.. not DayZ, so i understand why others are complaining (and i complain myself): doing PvP is extremely easy and not dangerous at all; but playing as a "survivor", trying to meet other unknow players is risk (your life expectance is few hours... if you're lucky enough).

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

Hopefully new maps. Yes. I do hope they add more ACTUALY content such as teamwork persistence like towns.

Arma 3 will have all enterable buildings.

All in all' date=' im at 300 hours and still not bored. I spent the last 150 just hunting people though. I'm getting pretty damned good.

[/quote']

We already have maps with enterable buildings in ArmA 2. All they have to do is take Celle 2 and it will be like a much improved Chernarus-like map

[i wub pugs 16]

Once I gather 4 or more STANAG mags I'm going to Cherno to grief noobs.

Except Celle 2 is half the size of Chernarus.

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

Simple PK'ing isn't the best part. It's multiple well-stocked clans fighting each other with lone wolves running around messing both of their plans in order to get a share of some of the good stuff.

[Timma (DayZ) 16]

Random scripted events would be awesome - for instance, seeing a group of helicopters streaking accross the sky, trailing smoke, knowing that they will crash somewhere up ahead, with all the loot goodies that represents.

[tso 5]

Like any open world game what is the point of doing anything? To what end?

It's really down to player choice.

Some people make up mini games for fun.

Most just like to cause chaos and kill others on sight...

[BL1P 252]

Your only restriction is your own imagination.