What's the point in having silenced guns?

[Pomegranate 83]

Why not just take the unsilenced version so you can use the silenced and unsilenced rounds? The silenced rounds still work with the non-silenced rounds and don't make any sound at all for zombies; but still makes a sound for players. Not that big of a deal; I always use silenced rounds for zombies and don't really care if players hear it.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I expect a suggestion to remove silenced weapons, I would have agreed with that.

But, that sounds like a bug.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Why not just take the unsilenced version so you can use the silenced and unsilenced rounds? The silenced rounds still work with the non-silenced rounds and don't make any sound at all for zombies; but still makes a sound for players. Not that big of a deal; I always use silenced rounds for zombies and don't really care if players hear it.

Bad suggestion due to bad understanding.

That isn't how it works, in terms of both AI and player audio detection.

A weapon suppressor quietens the retort, the actual shot being fired, making it harder to pinpoint your position, regardless of ammo type.

SD rounds, i.e. subsonic rounds, do not produce the supersonic 'crack' as they fly through the air, making it harder again to pinpoint the direction of fire. The price of this ammunition is that because of the lower velocity, they inevitably do less damage.

Besides, 'silence' doesn't come into it at all, it is about sound suppression

AI can hear suppressed fire AND supersonic cracks, so there is a reason to use them. If it isn't to your taste, then don't use it, but don't ruin the realism and variety in the mod for the rest of us just because you don't play as stealthily as others.

[Pomegranate 83]

That's not the point. The point is that the normal gun can use both SD rounds and normal rounds, while the suppressed version can only use the SD rounds, which are much rarer. There's no real point in using the suppressed version of the gun over the normal gun because the normal gun can shoot the SD rounds just fine without making any noise for zombies to hear.

[smithy0815 6]

Just make the noise detection of the zeds not caused by ammo type, make it caused by the gun itself

[7-75 callaghan 43]

To both above points - some suppressed weapons can use both ammo types, this is realistic.

Making it caused only by the gun is unrealistic, we don't really want the mod going in that direction. Re-read what I wrote, the Zeds (ArmA detection AI in general) detects both the shot and the bullet flying through the air.

[uglyboy 1]

To both above points - some suppressed weapons can use both ammo types' date=' this is realistic.

Making it caused only by the gun is unrealistic, we don't really want the mod going in that direction. Re-read what I wrote, the Zeds (ArmA detection AI in general) detects both the shot and the bullet flying through the air.

[/quote']

go into the editor, place a unit and an enemy unit 300m apart, shoot near his head ( even set him as playable to quickly switch and hear the "cracks") and look at him not giving a shit about the bullets flying around his head.

AI only hears the type of ammo being fired, the actual gun firing doesn't matter and so doesn't the supersonic crack at range. Players ofc can hear unsilenced guns just fine regardless of ammo used.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

To both above points - some suppressed weapons can use both ammo types' date=' this is realistic.

Making it caused only by the gun is unrealistic, we don't really want the mod going in that direction. Re-read what I wrote, the Zeds (ArmA detection AI in general) detects both the shot and the bullet flying through the air.

[/quote']

go into the editor, place a unit and an enemy unit 300m apart, shoot near his head ( even set him as playable to quickly switch and hear the "cracks") and look at him not giving a shit about the bullets flying around his head.

AI only hears the type of ammo being fired, the actual gun firing doesn't matter and so doesn't the supersonic crack at range. Players ofc can hear unsilenced guns just fine regardless of ammo used.

Look, I have been editing for 10+ years, I don't need to do your little experiment. I know what the AI hears because I have torn apart the configs, so just trust me on this. Both the gun AND the ammo matter to AI AND players. End of story.

[uglyboy 1]

To both above points - some suppressed weapons can use both ammo types' date=' this is realistic.

Making it caused only by the gun is unrealistic, we don't really want the mod going in that direction. Re-read what I wrote, the Zeds (ArmA detection AI in general) detects both the shot and the bullet flying through the air.

[/quote']

go into the editor, place a unit and an enemy unit 300m apart, shoot near his head ( even set him as playable to quickly switch and hear the "cracks") and look at him not giving a shit about the bullets flying around his head.

AI only hears the type of ammo being fired, the actual gun firing doesn't matter and so doesn't the supersonic crack at range. Players ofc can hear unsilenced guns just fine regardless of ammo used.

Look, I have been editing for 10+ years, I don't need to do your little experiment. I know what the AI hears because I have torn apart the configs, so just trust me on this. Both the gun AND the ammo matter to AI AND players. End of story.

It's funny that you said that, it's just the same for me ;)

[7-75 callaghan 43]

To both above points - some suppressed weapons can use both ammo types' date=' this is realistic.

Making it caused only by the gun is unrealistic, we don't really want the mod going in that direction. Re-read what I wrote, the Zeds (ArmA detection AI in general) detects both the shot and the bullet flying through the air.

[/quote']

go into the editor, place a unit and an enemy unit 300m apart, shoot near his head ( even set him as playable to quickly switch and hear the "cracks") and look at him not giving a shit about the bullets flying around his head.

AI only hears the type of ammo being fired, the actual gun firing doesn't matter and so doesn't the supersonic crack at range. Players ofc can hear unsilenced guns just fine regardless of ammo used.

Look, I have been editing for 10+ years, I don't need to do your little experiment. I know what the AI hears because I have torn apart the configs, so just trust me on this. Both the gun AND the ammo matter to AI AND players. End of story.

It's funny that you said that, it's just the same for me ;)

Well you are obviously lying, because if you had opened the configs you would know that there is a separate AI sound detect value for the launch/shot, and the bullet type itself. I actually uploaded a file to OFPEC for ArmA a while back which dealt with exactly these ideas, in particular for sniper-demoralisation scripts and pinpointing target locations. Search for files published by me and you will find it. I distinctly remember the Javelin being easiest to detect on launch, but the rocket having the same detect value, as well as SD rounds having less detect value and less damage.

[uglyboy 1]

I'll get back to you on that, need to check a couple things first :s

[infinitegrim 47]

That's not the point. The point is that the normal gun can use both SD rounds and normal rounds' date=' while the suppressed version can only use the SD rounds, which are much rarer. There's no real point in using the suppressed version of the gun over the normal gun because the normal gun can shoot the SD rounds just fine without making any noise for zombies to hear.

[/quote']

Honestly if you really wanted to get technical, the game devs should disable non SD weapons from using SD ammo. But SD weapons should be able to shoot both.

Having a suppressor on a gun creates more backpressure allowing the weak SD rounds to cycle the rifle.

[[ltac] imperator 9]

Or If you want to get Really super duper realistic, any gun that uses SD Rounds (Subsonic Rounds) the action should have to be worked manually as most guns (read most, not all) have to be cycled because the pressure from the round going off isnt enough to properly cycle the action meaning that there is an increased likliehood of jams, malfunctions and other wonderful things that are great in the middle of combat.

And if your going to allow an SD weapon to shoot super sonic rounds, then lets put a "Condition" indicator on a seperate Silencer item, that has to be found and replaced.

In other words: Arma II and its engine can duplicate real life. Do we want that? Do we want to be carrying around ammo tins in our backpack that take up tons of room and weight capacity (which should be implemented if we are going super realistic as well) and individually load different types of rounds into magazines before going into battle? Should we include detachable and fixed suppressors that degrade with each use? What serves gameplay, what is realistic to the point of ridiculousness, and what is fun for all of us, not to the point of degrading the overall vision.

Thats all.

Imp Out.

[Beemlord 1]

Or If you want to get Really super duper realistic' date=' any gun that uses SD Rounds (Subsonic Rounds) the action should have to be worked manually as most guns (read most, not all) have to be cycled because the pressure from the round going off isnt enough to properly cycle the action meaning that there is an increased likliehood of jams, malfunctions and other wonderful things that are great in the middle of combat.

And if your going to allow an SD weapon to shoot super sonic rounds, then lets put a "Condition" indicator on a seperate Silencer item, that has to be found and replaced.

[/quote']

Well some guns, like the MP5SD6 are designed to fire supersonic rounds but arent able to in the mod.