To fix server hopping, or not to fix server hopping.

[lherron 0]

I've been playing DayZ daily over the last month, and I have quite a few thoughts about the game, but I will save most of them for another post. In short - DayZ is amazing, and I hope (and think it will) serve as the catalyst (along with Minecraft, which I think has some strong parallels to this game) in bringing the "sandbox MMO" genre to the next level. I haven't had this much fun playing a game... possibly ever.

Onto the post: DayZ is still buggy, but for the most part it's very playable. Every patch is two or three steps forward, one step back. It's great to see them take an aggressive approach with the game (over the last 3 weeks especially), and I appreciate that. Now, we all know this mod is an "experiment", and just reminding yourself of that helps to relieve some of the frustration when dumb things happen in the game - it does for me at least.

So, when I say "To fix server hopping, or not to fix server hopping" I mean that philosophically - what's better for the health of the DayZ franchise in the long term? If you were to launch DayZ as a retail game right now, it's by far and away the biggest flaw in the game, nothing else is even close. (DCing is second.) Server hopping prevents any sort of serious strategic maneuvering, and simply allows endless griefing and farming.

For a game that strives for realism and rewards meticulous planning and execution, it's the most subversive, game-breaking loophole you could possibly create. One of the reasons DayZ gameplay is such an awesome experience is because it is endlessly brutal and unforgiving. That brutality is amazing and essential to DayZ, but only when it is served up by the game mechanics - not by the exploits.

However, I play through it because I know how much time and effort it would take to fix. It's just a very hard thing to tackle from a game dev perspective. So, my question is... should they try to fix it? You have to assume that if they fixed server hopping (I will post some ideas below) the game would grow even quicker. I know several people that love the idea of DayZ, love the gameplay, but don't have the time to rebuild 3 days of progress because someone served hopped and snuck around behind them, or spawned while they were looting a tent, or killed them while loading. They refuse to DC out of a hairy situation because that's what the entire crux of the game is - the heart racing moments. Who can blame them?

So the real question is not SHOULD they, because they obviously should, no one who's played the game would answer "no", but how much new content and bug fixes should they sacrifice to do so? Not an easy question.

Here are some ideas:

#1 - All cities and major locations (castles, airfields, etc) have a radius around them that you cannot spawn inside of. The zones will be posted by devs for all to see. If you log out within a zone, upon relog you will spawn just outside the zone (as close to where you logged out.) This solves many issues right away.

PROS:

- You can actually execute strategic ops on targets in high traffic zones, since you're able to clear buildings with confidence.

- Greatly reduces farming

- Greatly reduces log-on kills in buildings/loot spots.

- Makes fencing items much more useful.

CONS:

- You can't log out in cities, unless you want to roll the dice on your spawn. I personally think this is a nice side effect, and people will be even more willing to venture into the major cities because the fear of new players spawning around them has been eliminated.

- The dev time/man power issue. Is it worth it, or even possible to code given the team working on the game.

---

Sorry, this post has gotten super long. Just wanted to put some thoughts out there. I love this game, and I am happy to play it as is until Arma3 or DayZ 2 or whatever the next iteration of the game is released. It's very possible the best decision for the long term health of the franchise and genre is to just play it as is and deal with the exploits. Just spitballin here.

-LH

[iidunno 0]

maybe you can't spawn near high yield buildings, not every major city.

[lherron 0]

Out of curiosity, why not all major cities?

[woofed 8]

Nothing wrong with server hopping. Got to love when people do that and spawn right next to you.

[CongressmanAlexShrub 1]

You shouldn't be allowed to spawn within a minimum distance of 1 kilometer of either loot spawns or other people (unless you have marked them as friends in the currently non-existent friend system).

If there are people inside that radius around the place where you logged out you should be given the option to either wait or to roll the dice and spawn at the closest convenient distance from your previous spawn.

This would eliminate

- server hopping from barracks to barracks

- jumping servers to end up behind people or behind barricades

- players getting the jump on each other by spawning in each others' faces

The only downside is that you have to run a bit farther.

[NoxZA 2]

I'm sorry, nothing wrong with it? There is plenty wrong with it.

As for OP's suggestion, I don't think players should be forced to log in or out anywhere on the map, it's a sandbox game after all so players have to be free to make choices.

[Toad772 1]

You shouldn't be allowed to spawn within a minimum distance of 1 kilometer of either loot spawns or other people (unless you have marked them as friends in the currently non-existent friend system).

If there are people inside that radius around the place where you logged out you should be given the option to either wait or to roll the dice and spawn at the closest convenient distance from your previous spawn.

This would eliminate

- server hopping from barracks to barracks

- jumping servers to end up behind people or behind barricades

- players getting the jump on each other by spawning in each others' faces

The only downside is that you have to run a bit farther.

The ops idea is terrible, but yours is just fucking stupid.

[TheGoldElite 0]

I think people should not be allowed to spawn in areas with loot spawns, or they should be moved. But it's hard to say how that will effect the game, as you will have lots of spawning people just outside of town. Better than the current system probably though.

So I'm not entirely sure how, but DC and spawns are massive immersion breaking things that must be addressed

[enduin 4]

Probably not a good idea right now in the current state of DayZ, but down the road I believe it would be prudent if your exact position was only saved on the server you logged from. So if you are on say US 20 and you log out next time you log back in and you go back to US 20 youll be exactly where you left off, but if you go to say US 22 you will be spawned in at a safe, and barren, location say 1-5km or so from your previous position.

The main reason I think this would be good down the road and not now is that most people dont have a particular reason to stick to any one server at the moment. The server persistent features have yet to be implemented so players have very little connection to any one server. But in the future when we do have said features that allow players to create meaningful permanent structures and changes to the map that are server specific then many players will already have an intrinsic connection towards one particular server.

Groups of survivors will all focus on one server in particular they like and have set up roots in and so instituting the aforementioned player position being server specific wont be such a big deal to most since theyll generally be sticking to the same server anyways. It will affect everyone still, but those most affected by it will be those who specifically server hop to loot high yield locations and to grief other players by spawning in on them.

[Rabbican 1]

I think they are looking into server binding your characters... That would solve the issue. Your suggestion is a good one though, kills a little bit of the immersion, but would solve most the cons.

[eero.afheurlin@iki.fi 0]

I was thinking about this same issue, and in addition to the suggestion of the original poster would add a delay to disconnections so that people cannot escape a hairy situation just by hitting alt-f4.

Basically: when you disconnect your character will stay in the game for X seconds, if you have taken damage recently X could be higher, ditto for shots fired/damage dealt.

I admit I'm thinking of this mostly as a way to prevent cowardly bandits from disconnecting to save their sorry asses when they realize that they bit more than they could swallow (so DC would only make them sitting ducks for the retribution heading their way: only way to survive would be to fight the encounter to the bitter end [or run away properly, not teleporting to alternative dimension]). edit: I also have no respect for "survivors" that DC to try to cheat death. Get to a safe location first, disconnect after.

So please tell me in what cases this would unfairly inconvinience honourable survivors ?

As for the original posters radius-idea, it could be marked with an icon that you're now inside a no-spawn zone and disconnecting will mean (in addition to being sitting duck for X seconds) that your next spawn will be in a rather random location, that way there is no need to keep checking external maps for whether it's "safe" to DC or not.

[Rabbican 1]

Just thought of simplest solution, switching server = trip to he beach (starter gear fresh spawn), would suck if your server was down or not updated.

[Dev (DayZ) 113]

out of all the posts I have seen making suggestions about spawning, this was the one that had the least amount of stupid in it. I could see something similar to this working. Anyone who says it is a bad idea are the ones who server hop barracks or backspawn intentionally.

[4L4N 276]

Either One Global server like Eve's Tranquility ( would require monthly sub to keep running though )

OR

When you log out, you can log back into the same server and respawn at the same spot you logged out in.

BUT

If you join a different server your old logout position is reset and upon entering the new server you will spawn at a new character spawn point - the beach !

EDIT - Rabbican mentioned it before me ... but NOT the fresh char idea. My idea is you would still have all your gear, its just your spawn location is reset to the beach if joining a diff server.

[BL1P 252]

Nice idea but an easier fix is 1 character per server

---

When you log out' date=' you can log back into the same server and respawn at the same spot you logged out in.

BUT

If you join a different server your old logout position is reset and upon entering the new server you will spawn at a new character spawn point - the beach !

[/quote']

Not a bad idea that

[t3sla 0]

A simpler way to prevent this would be to just put a short timer on disconnections, perhaps 30 seconds or so, if there is a player within a certain distance of you (i.e. half a kilometer).

The same timer should exist (only longer) if you try to connect more than once to a location that isn't at least a kilometer away from your original location.

[halfdime 0]

@ woofed, that is exactly what happened to me. I had been traveling north, and not finding any loot in any builiding, i was weaponless and food and waterless, i made it to a barn and started hopping servers, after about 10 server i finally found a weapon, double barreled shotty with lots of ammo, but still no food so i was about to move on when i spawned, looted a pile and got shot in the back all withing 5 seconds. so what is the right answer? i server hopped and it got me killed....

[hishnik 23]

Probably not a good idea right now in the current state of DayZ' date=' but down the road I believe it would be prudent if your exact position was only saved on the server you logged from. So if you are on say US 20 and you log out next time you log back in and you go back to US 20 youll be exactly where you left off, but if you go to say US 22 you will be spawned in at a safe, and barren, location say 1-5km or so from your previous position.

[/quote']

Actually, I really like this idea. This would solve problems of the hopping, and give yet another reason to stick to a server.

As for those who ask "what's wrong with it"... You haven't had your share of run ins with server hoppers ;)

[BabylonUSArmy 21]

I like the concept, but one possible problem with this is on higher population servers and in heavily-trafficked areas, you may run into instances where several people may have to spawn very close to one another around the circumference of these "no spawn" zones due to the new limitations of the possible spawn points. While likely a rare occurrence, it does put players in exactly the position we are trying to avoid.

[enduin 4]

Either One Global server like Eve's Tranquility ( would require monthly sub to keep running though )

OR

When you log out' date=' you can log back into the same server and respawn at the same spot you logged out in.

BUT

If you join a different server your old logout position is reset and upon entering the new server you will spawn at a new character spawn point - the beach !

[/quote']

Thats a bit too drastic and slightly punitive. Just spawn them in at a random location in 1-5km radius of their former location. That alone would cut back on the server hopping for loot and to ghost other players by a lot. Throwing people all the way to the beaches would be punishing everyone for the misdeeds of some.

Example, 1.7.2 comes out and I want to play but the server I played on last has a shitty admin and theyre still stuck on 1.7.1.5. I was at the far north, setting up a camp exploring the woods, but now I'll be thrown all the way back south and on the beach simply because I want to play the game.

Probably not a good idea right now in the current state of DayZ' date=' but down the road I believe it would be prudent if your exact position was only saved on the server you logged from. So if you are on say US 20 and you log out next time you log back in and you go back to US 20 youll be exactly where you left off, but if you go to say US 22 you will be spawned in at a safe, and barren, location say 1-5km or so from your previous position.

[/quote']

Actually, I really like this idea. This would solve problems of the hopping, and give yet another reason to stick to a server.

As for those who ask "what's wrong with it"... You haven't had your share of run ins with server hoppers ;)

Exactly, and its not just server hoppers who are farming good loot spawns, it ghosts. People you get in a fight with who log out, go to another server, move around to a good vantage point or position, log back into your server and shoot you in the back. Its just wayyy too easy now with how fast it is getting into servers. Before it wasnt a problem because logging in could take 5-10 minutes, now its barely 30 seconds.

[GodOfGrain 191]

I think the mainserver is recording quite a lot of ingame data.

E.g. it knows the "total km travelled" etc.

So there could be the possibility to analyse player behavior / serverswitching. Server loot hopping has certain characeristics which would make it distinguable from e.g. looking for a server with low ping.

If player behavior indicates serverhopping with a probability of 99.8% character gets killed.

But this idea has certain disadvantes as well...

[Vitzo 0]

So we have:

1) Aborting or disconnect to avoid death from zombies. Not so bad because at least it only effects the player who does it.

2) Server hopping to farm (check the same high yield location over and over). Really gamey and these players will have better loot than others by doing it which does effect others. At least they bear SOME risk from popping into a bad situation though.

3) Server aborting to avoid death in PvP. Pretty bad. Really breaks the experience.

4) Server hopping to flank or ambush players. (Disconnect, move location on another server, reconnect). The absolute worst in my opinion.

The simplest adjustment they could make, I think, is bump up the disconnect body timer.

They already added a 5 second period where your body remains in the game frozen when you disconnect. Why not make it longer, maybe 2 minutes? You could still do it but you have to find a safe spot to hide first. Or at least get a friend to watch the body. The general idea is to increase the risk of server hopping. Players who are in a safe spot and just looking for a server without much lag shouldn't have a problem.

I actually think this adds a bit of a fun phase to logging off for the night too. It's like looking for a safe spot to sleep for the night.

[whocares 1]

You seem to see only the reasons to exploit the system for server hopping.

I am hopping servers fairly often, for various reasons:

- spawing in at night

the GMT/UTC are not always reliable and I might also play at different times; as long as I don't have NVGs my characters sleep at night. But as I want to play and that with daylight, I might have to hopp until i find a daytime server.

- carry stuff from one server to another

I don't host my own server, so I put up tents on different servers and in different locations to make sure that I have access to some of my stuff when I play. Reason for multiple servers, again playing in daytime, downtime, wrong version, discontinuation, full server,... E.g. yesterday I carried over some morphine from a tent on a server that is still running at 93825.

- dropped out for various reasons (e.g. kicked for ping, server restart,...)

Something i wouldn't mind is a delay, could also depend on how long you were active on the previous server, e.g. played >15mins => 30secs delay, <5min => 5min delay.

Some of my reasons above are also good reasons against binding characters to a server or forcing a respawn in a different location. I don't see why you would penalize a player by respawning at a random location, even if it is in a limited radius around the logout location - or even worse at the beach. I see quite some people quit out of frustration if a 7 days character spawned on the beach and was killed by a spawn camper.

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

Another thread rehashing the same arguments. Sorry folks, but there are loads of valid reasons to hop servers, this evening being a good example in my case.

For those who are getting spawned in 30 seconds or less after connecting to a server, you're very lucky. I've just been to about a dozen servers attempting to get a daytime game after being kicked from the lobby of the one server I did manage to log onto earlier this evening, while I went to the loo in real life.

Along with a number of other players I've chatted with this evening whilst being stuck at the waiting for character to create screen, a lot of people are struggling to find reliable servers and now you folk want to talk of imposing rules and restrictions that would penalise those players who are forced to server hop through no fault of their own.

This seems to be as reprehensible as the malicious server hopping you all so despise. As in life, it's generally better to not allow the actions of the few to spoil things for the many.

Until the server descriptions, time zones, versions and reliability are all addressed, server hopping is going to be a regular experience for a lot of players. And I can imagine that by the time DayZ is ready for a retail release, many players will have even less patience with punitive restrictions on a game that they will have paid for.

[nepereta 0]

I stay on the same server all the time I only DC in the quiet away from stuff. Today I was into some PvP hiding in a military tent in stary sobor after hearing shots in that big rusty warehouse. I am waiting for those in the warehouse to come up to the military base for pew-pew. I am deep in the tent I hear pop pop at point blank and I am dead. My friends report guy ( not the guys in the warehouse) leaving the tent I was in. I think some sensible spawning rules should be made up akin to that of other games. What FPS or MMORPG would allow that? In theory you could have teams of guys teleporting from server to server zero-ed in ready to shoot shit up? Is that the game we want? I am not bitter as this the game is totally rough around the edges.