Loot Reset Mechanics for Object Permanence

[jfn3000 10]

This is a "back-end" suggestion to achieve a few ends.  Everyone suggests more loot and different places to find it.  Everyone also wants bases.  With small (in scope) tweaks to the spawning mechanics, both could be well supported and customizable on a per server to support many players' different ideas equally well.

 

The Mechanics: Loot resets are cell- or region-based. Server configuration can determine the reset window on different regions independently.  Resetting a "dirty" cell wipes all loot and spawns fresh items in an untouched state.  Resets may wait for all players to be absent for a set period of time before occurring once triggered.

 

Example Implementation:  Server configuration can specify the reset timer for three different "zones," large cities/military bases, smaller cities, and towns/wilderness.

 

Effects: 

• Zones with short reset timers become loot spawning areas with transient occupancy.  Trash can noise traps (http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/176194-interactable-clutter-objects/) disappear when new bean cans and machetes repop, so players are not likely to set up permanent camps here.
• Zones with long reset timers become loot sinks.  Players can bring their goods to these areas to set up item caches and bases/forts to the extent allowed by the game.  This works well with most of the container or base-building suggestions.  The tradeoff is that new items don't spawn in here during that time, so you must rob other players or go on loot runs.
• Server-based configuration results in multiple playstyles.  A server with uniformly shorter reset timers inhibits base-building and keeps players on the move (assuming resets only happen when cells are empty.)  Loot stays at low levels, only spawned + actively carried.  The game functions much like it does currently.  Another server can have a weeklong reset timer in big cities and hours-long timer in the countryside.  This allows a player-base to repopulate cities, building forts, a rudimentary economy, etc. but forces them to acquire items from elsewhere.  People flow through smaller towns for items/zombie killing, but flock to cities for human interaction.  Loot grows due to semi-permanent player caches, but it is not all in free circulation.
• Reset windows drive post-apocalyptic "flavor."  The extent to which civilization is able to rebuild is directly determined by these reset windows.  Short windows create items, long windows create homes.  The upper limit is what you can achieve before the reset.  A week-long window allows a lot of creativity in establishing a town, but keeps it fresh and new and allows players an equal opportunity to settle the city to their own liking after the reset.  A months-long window supports an established community and status-quo.  These different time frames, and all others, set the stage for anywhere from immediately after the fall to months and years afterwards.
• Danger still lurks.  When the reset happens, your cache is lost.  Like now, only items on you have any safety.  They could also be looted by other players before a reset, because there is no real "ownership."  If you die, do you risk Elektro empty-handed to get your fail-safe stash? Or do you head for your corpse in the wilderness because it has all the survival basics?

 

Even the option of what granularity to expose to server admins plays into the customization.  Taking this idea or some permutation and fixing the parameters in the source code defines DayZ more strongly than allowing servers to configure them independently, allowing Rocket and co. flexibility in deciding how strongly to assert their artistic vision on the gameplay.

Edited February 22, 2014 by jfn3000

[- Karma - 75]

Interesting - I grasped it immediately, but I'm no programmer: how hard would this be to implement?  I mean just getting loot / enemies respawning is still a work in progress.  Would this not require quite a bit of effort?  Not saying it's not worth it, but the Devs would really have to love the idea.  Also, because they constantly refer to the servers communicating with a central database (at least how I understood it, feel free to correct me) how would that work with your system?  Is it fine because the database only contains the information to populate the loot spawns, or would the database control things the spawn timers as well once instituted?

[jfn3000 10]

It depends on the architecture, I think.  Cell segregation sounds like the most work, but it may already be in place or planned.  It's a good way to go about things since you can conditionally skip a lot of heavy work if no one's in the cell, or if it's clean (i.e. untouched.)  Adding the extra timers would be second, and that could be a little or a lot of work depending on how things are done.  Expanding things like this can be simple addition of code snippets, or can turn into a deconstruction of an entire subsystem.

 

Servers already control loot spawn timers on their own, I think the central database only contains spawn locations in that regard.  Obviously different servers have different loot in a building at a given time or no one would hop around.

 

To me, it seems easy, but only because the challenges and steps to implement it are straightforward.  I have a hard time accounting for the actual time and effort required, which is what it really boils down to. 

[- Karma - 75]

No, I like it.  Basically the server breaks loot spawns down into a kind of map grid, or otherwise defined zones, and depending on player traffic assigns values to those loot spawns.  I especially like the part about reducing server load by not respawning items if they've basically been untouched.  I'd really like to see this idea explored, but alas I'm not a Dev. :P

[jfn3000 10]

From this awesome post: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/175596-summary-of-dev-qas-from-streams/

 

 

Since our beloved DevTracker can't get this one automated in (for obvious reasons), I thought I create a little topic where I collect these things for the players. Because a lot of these things, that the Devs say in the Q&A sessions, are asked over and over and over again...
 
Also, if you haven't please read the "Confirmed upcoming features" in the announcements: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/156129-confirmed-upcoming-features-for-dayz/
 
I'll try to update this first post every time with the newest information, but I can't promise that I'll be able to deliver all information immedeately (or even within a day ;))

 

And, if you don't mind, bump this thread with an answer so  it doesn't get lost :)
 
 
So here we go:

 

[...]
 

Live stream with Rocket  (20.02.2014) - from reddit, thanks to rudette :)
UPDATED after hearing it myself
2. Update: merged with iBanes list (thanks ^^)

• Bugfix for lootspawn buildings/cars/tents is worked on
• [...]
• When will barricade houses, set up camps come: short to medium term, they will be persistent server based
• [...]
• Refrigerators and other static scenery items in game will have storage values and gear spawning in them in the future.
• [...]
• Degradable items (food, medical supplies) over time, being worked on with refrigeration devices
• [...]
• Lootrespawning will happen soon ("has to be done first") beforethings like loot % per server population can be thought about (the mor epeople on a server, the more loot spawns)
• [...]
• Barricading/player built camps & cooking are the things Dean looks himself most forward to
• [...]
• Currently in 3-4 week update cycles for stable branch.  This should be the expected time frame for updates to Stable branch for the foreseeable future

 

I trimmed out a huge amount of it so that it was only thread-relevant stuff for context, so I definitely encourage everyone to read it (and bump it for stickying!)  It sounds like there is probably a good plan in the works right now, so this might stay a relevant suggestion in case they can't get the balance they want by pulling on the existing strings.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Do not like the idea of the player's loot cache disappearing, it kind of removes the point of having a campsite at a pre-existing building.

[jfn3000 10]

Do not like the idea of the player's loot cache disappearing, it kind of removes the point of having a campsite at a pre-existing building.

 

That does pose an issue, but in my mind, it's on a much longer timer.  The main reason for allowing these campsites and buildings to be reset without a server restart is so that people have a chance to experience DayZ from the start.  The longer you let people build up, the closer you get to the recurrence of civilization, which starts to oppose the basic foundation of the game.

 

It would be neat to see the dynamic between two philosophically opposed cities in such a brutal game, but there's more longevity if people still commonly have a chance to play a role in the founding of those cities.  So there's a balance between growth and starting from scratch, since both are big parts of what the game has to offer.  It would really suck if the best parts of DayZ are memories of what it was like in Alpha/Beta because now everything is established.