Gear Levels/Rarity, Scarcity, Item Management, Children and More

[wonderflex 2]

My play group has been together from the mod and up through about 85 hours of standalone.  Through our playsessions quite a few ideas have come and gone, but through all of it these seem to be the things that stick the most:

 

Gear Levels/Rarity

 

While playing standalone I find that death is only an inconvenience for short matter of time.  Die, respawn and then run as fast as you can to the factory, then Berezino and then the airfield. Complete this fists up run and you are most likely to have a nice backpack, four slot pants and shirt, a pistol, an M4 or Mosin, three mags, water source, food, basic medical supplies and a few attachments - all in about an hour and a half.  This means I can go from nothing to equipped enough that I need to invent my own endgame in a relatively short period of time.  

 

To alleviate this issue one of our group suggested having increased tiers of quality and rarity à la the Elder Scrolls series.  As an example, in the Oblivion there are 11 tiers of daggers, each with progressive damage, durability and rarity.  Why not apply the same mechanic to the most beneficial of gear in Day Z?  

 

Wash up on a beach, run into a house, and all over of the place you will find 6 slot children's school backpacks or women's large purses.  Search a little longer and you will find an adults 10 slot hike pack.  Continue this gradient rarity scale all the way up until you find your 85 liter expedition pack with 30 slots.

 

Same idea, wash up on a beach, run into a house and find a semi-auto .22LR and work your way up to an M4A1/AK12.  Find a Mossburg over-under and work your way up to a Saiga 12. Find a Mosin and work your way up to an M107 .50 cal, with ultra-rare ammunition.  

 

We would like to see the top tier weapons be incredibly rare, causing you pause for thought each time you enter an engagement because the thought of death is actually fearful when stack up the hours used to obtain your gear.

 

As much as I love this idea I do still see server hopping as a gaping flaw in this system.  Figure out where the .50 cal rifle spawns, flip through server after server - even with a time penalty - and you eventually undue the entire system.  To prevent this from happening I bring us to the next topic:

 

Scarcity

 

If an item only spawns on the roof of the air traffic control tower, and only has a 5% chance of spawning, then the easy solution for some is to server-hop 20 times, and as statistics say there should eventually be the item you are seeking.  This means for minimal work, even if a time penalty for hopping is introduced, you can find a rare item with minimal time or risk.  To combat this I suggested that the game introduce a scarcity system, that is to say, there should be times when no matter how hard you search you will never find the item, leaving the only means of collection to bartering or harvesting off the corpses of others.  Here is an example of how the system would work:

 

You currently have a 20 slot backpack, but have really been fancying one with 30 slots, so you set out looking for one, but you never seem to be able to.  This is because the central-hive would be set to not allow certain items to spawn for a set duration of time.  Today there aren't any 30 slot backpacks and there won't be for the next seven.  You don't know this though because the scarcity index isn't published, and the frequency isn't set in stone, such as 12 gauge slugs always spawning on Thursday through Saturday.  This will discourage you from server hopping much if the item doesn't appear, and may just drive up your player interaction.  

 

The other advantage to this system is the preplanning requirement it will place on the average user.  

 

"Today I found a box magazine for an PKP, but I don't own a PKP, don't have any 7.62x54r ammunition, but I sure do want that gun."  Now you need to decide if you want to keep this four slot box without ammo or a weapon to use it with because you never know if when you will find the weapon - it could be today, it could be tomorrow.  You decide to skip on the box magazine because you would need to toss some items.  Two days later you find your PKP, but alas, you no longer have the box magazine and the hive isn't sending any out for three more days.  

 

This scenario will now require you to either trade for the magazine, or kill to get one.  Additionally, you may be willing to hold onto items you don't need just because you know how valuable they will be in a trading scenario, helping to better establish a post-apocalyptic monetary system.  "How many .308 bullets will you take for that backpack?"

 

Speaking of backpacks...

 

Item Management

 

In real life I own several different backpacks, with my favorite being an REI Flash 65.  On my flash I have a large main compartment and five extra compartments, but no matter how you stack it, I can't fit a sleeping bag in my water bottle compartment, and I wouldn't put bear spray at the bottom of my bag.  When you pick up a backpack in the game it shouldn't be adding all of the slots together to make one total number.  Instead a 28 slot backpack should have a solid grid of 20, three double slots and two single slots.  Find a yellow protector case?  You won't be sticking it in your water bottle holder today.

 

This idea can carry over to all gear.  Six slot pants?  How about two double slots and two single slots.  Four slot rain jacket?  Four single slots.  

 

Using this system will then allow for additional diversity and force you to choose one type of clothing over another.  For example, let's say you find a hiking jacket with six slots, but it has six single slots.  Next you run across a hoodie with only four slots, but it is one big four slot pouch in the front.  You now are faced with an inventory management question - "Six slots holds more single items, but four slots holds a pistol."  This is a no-brainer for most people - just take the six slots, move your canned food into the pockets and put the pistol in the backpack.  

 

In order to force the choice I also recommend the second prong of my item storage scheme, which forces to types of storage - quick access and standard access.  Storage slots on an item would be either standard or quick with a dark colored line around those that were standard.  On a hoodie the front pouch is quick access, but the main backpack storage compartment is not.  If you put your pistol into the backpack you will be required to kneel down, open the pack and pull out the pistol.  If you take the four slot hoodie and put the pistol in the front it can be pulled out with the normal animation.  This can drive even further item diversity, with a 20 slot tactical backpack having more front-facing small quick access slots, where a 20 slot expedition backpack may have only one large 20 slot standard access area.

 

 

Combining all three suggestions would stretch out the endgame (ie: I have the gear I need, thus I have nothing to search out) by quite a bit, as will upcoming updates with cars, repairs, base building,  On top of these three major ones, here are a few other random suggestions that have not been fully vetted and are just food for thought:

 

• Missions: have missions posted on a bulletin board, such as deliver this package from cherno to kranostav via dubrovka in X amount of time and receive a reward.  The reward would usually be an item that is currently in scarcity and with the difficulty determining how valuable the item is.  You can't leave the server, and the more people on the server when you start the mission the higher the reward.  If the server goes down I don't know what would happen.
• Children: My wife thought this up (figures?).  Male and female characters can have a kids.  Pair up, do the deed, and five days later two kids are born.  You both get one.  The child must be carried in arm or on a baby backpack.  After three days of feeding you get a ten year old kid who can carry a backpack and be interacted with as storage.  The child will follow you as close or as far as you set it.
• Pack Animals: Similar to the child idea, but you get an animal to ride or to carry items.  This way you don't have to worry about child violence in a game.
• Those Tiger-Trap Stick Hole Things: Use your shovel to dig a whole.  Put spikes at the bottom.  Cover whole with leaves.  Wait.
• Elder Scrollsesque Darkness: People gama-trick all the time.  Why not just make it a tad easier to see at night, a little worse than elder-scrolls and then reduce the ability to trick out gama and brightness.
• Blowgun/Craftable Weapons: Axe+Bamboo = Blowgun.  Axe+Porcupine = Blowdart.  Blowdart+Antifreeze= Poison Blowdart.  Axe+Branch+String=Bow.  Axe+Branch+Feather=Arrow  Hammer+Rock=Arrow Head.
• Vehicle Maintenance: Cars require oil and antifreeze.  You can salvage parts off other cars.  Don't maintain your car's fluids and it breaks down.  This would force somebody in a group to be the mechanic and carry around maintenance gear.
• Advanced Medical: Bandages stop you from bleeding at the moment - eventually you need stitches or a surgery.  Major medical supplies for surgery come in a 6 slot kit.  This would force somebody in a group to be a medic and carry around medic gear.
• Server-Hopping: This has been talked about to death, so I will  put it at the end. My suggestion is getting rid of the idea of a server connection cool-down timer.  Instead make it so items won't spawn into view for a set amount of time.  Sever hopped four times?  Next log-in to a server makes it so you can't see any gear, even from other players, for 10 minutes of in-game time.  Second time you log-in to it is cut down to a 5 minute penalty.  Third time you are penalty free.  Get caught server hopping again, the penalty starts at 20 minutes, then 10, then free.  Keep on upping that server hopping penalty to a maximum of 30 minutes, 15, free.

Edited February 1, 2014 by wonderflex

[djporternz 644]

Gear Levels/Rarity & Scarcity:

Rareity and Sacarcity (and levels) are already handled by loot spawn %. Current system is still undergoing a lot of development, but is generally heading in the right direction. Server hopping is already addressed in the current Experimental build. 30 s logout timer and a 260 s login delay if you weren't in your previous server for 30 mins. IMHO this alone should address most concerns around this.

 

Stock Management:

The current method, while not totally realistic, still mean that you're playing Backpack Tetris a lot to fit everything in. Artificial limits on slot sizes would just add to the complexity of this with not a lot of actual benefit.

 

Missions:

Not going to be possible except in a meta-game style within a community. Impractical on a public server. Waiting for private servers to see what possibilities it will open up.

 

Children:

Rocket runs away whenever the depiction of children in DayZ is mentioned as Zs, and I'd assume the same for any other dipiction. It creates all sorts of nightmares around classification/age restrictions and outright bans in some countries. And even hinting at ...relations... in a video game....

 

Advanced Medical:

Probably not going to happen in the vanilla release, but I'm secretly hopeing for an ACE-esque medical system once we are given the opportunity to mod for DayZ.

 

Pack Animals/Vehicles/Traps/Weapons:

All good ideas. Some are already slated for inclusion further down the development path. We'll have to wait and see how far this gets us.

 

Gamma/Brightness:

The power of the PC as a platform is its diversity of components. This also means that a one-size-fits-all approach to anything usually falls on its face. I agree that night time is a little dark (but to be fair, night time is pretty much that dark!), and there could be a lightening of night overall, but removing Gamma/Brightness probably isn't the way to go.

 

Welcome to the forums.

[wonderflex 2]

I guess I should note that I understand the game already uses a % based spawn system, but am offering a different way of going about it that I think would make server hoping not worth it at all at some point, because to be honest 260s is not even close to long enough if the person wants a certain item.  This system would instead make it not worth your time, because a certain times even a server hopping all day long (with your 260s breaks in between) wouldn't be of use.  Instead you play the game, and as you live your life you will go back to a location on another day to see if your items are around.  If an item has a 1% chance of spawning, even with the server hopping time out you will find the item you seek in seven and quarter hours of play.  That is quite a bit of time, but may be worth it some people.

[djporternz 644]

I guess I should note that I understand the game already uses a % based spawn system, but am offering a different way of going about it that I think would make server hoping not worth it at all at some point, because to be honest 260s is not even close to long enough if the person wants a certain item.  This system would instead make it not worth your time, because a certain times even a server hopping all day long (with your 260s breaks in between) wouldn't be of use.  Instead you play the game, and as you live your life you will go back to a location on another day to see if your items are around.  If an item has a 1% chance of spawning, even with the server hopping time out you will find the item you seek in seven and quarter hours of play.  That is quite a bit of time, but may be worth it some people.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. 4 min 20 s is plenty long enough. The types of people who are jumping servers to gear up are not going to be wanting to be sitting idle for 5 mins for each server they jump through. They are just not the type of player with that kind of patience for something like that. There is going to be nothing we can do to combat a player who is willing to spend 8 hours server hopping to gear up. That's going to take some true dedication and persistence right there. The only thing we can rely on is that persons gear is going to last less time than the collecting of it.

 

You and I may think nothing of running from Cherno to Svetlojarsk just to find another fresh bandage to stow in our shirt pocket because, let's be honest, the journey is what it's all about. But the average PvP server jumping gear-up player is actually wanting a play style closer to that offered by CoD/BF, and in all fairness, done pretty well in those engines.

 

Quoting from here: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/156129-confirmed-upcoming-features-for-dayz/

 

Respawning Zombies & Loot

 

Target Delivery: Early 2014

 

Currently to have the server check if something needs respawning can cause an issue with performance. We did not want to go with a "scripted" solution for respawning, and it is expensive on server performance. Player spawning on the coast is conducted by the engine, and we are going to employ a similar process for managing zombie and loot spawn (possibly parallelized). This is a high priority task and zombie respawn at least is very close to being implemented.

 

The current loot system is very server intensive, so much so that they have it turned off ATM. It is on the priority list to get this working, and I have every confidence in the Dev team to find a workable solution.

 

While your terminology seems a bit strange, at least to me, we are already seeing something similar in-game already. Large capacity backpacks have been reduced in number, for instance. Now we have a lot more smaller backpacks spawning in and much much fewer larger ones. Yes, you can luck in with the %s and find a large one early, but so far I've not seen on on the experimental servers. (This may be solely due to the fact that the Exp servers are ALWAYS at or near capacity, though).

 

As to the ability to gear-up quickly in full military gear, you should have been here last month. Gearing up used to take just as long as it took to get to the nearest military location. Mil gear has been through one major nerf already, and we are promised that once craftable and makeshift weapons go live, the mil gear and weapons will become even rarer. While not using your system exactly, the result will be close enough to make no difference.

 

As to a weapon tier system à la the Elder Scrolls series, I'm just not seeing how that sort of system can be transposed into the DayZ-verse. In Elder Scrolls we can suspend our disbelief in that an outside agency i.e. magic, can inbibe an item with variances in quality or characteristics. In DayZ, a knife is a knife. It cuts a person and makes them bleed. Beyond that it just gets complex for the sake of complexity, and starts to feel a bit gamey. The weapons currently in game are sufficiently differentiated by class i.e. pipe wrench, knife, axe, gun, etc., and for the life of me can't see the sense in artificially tying them to specific tiers to essentially get the same sort of hierarchy.

 

TBH, I think that your major concerns are going to be addressed as we progress. How far we get towards any particular solution is still open for debate. ATM I think they are focusing on long-term server stability, as they should, and will come back to tweaking spawn rates and other tunable items when we get closer to Beta and Release. Either way, I for one am enjoying the ride so far.

[fisheye 21]

About item management - personally I like the idea of realistic backpack/clothes inventory slots. The "tetris problem", which occurs with current item management, shouldn't be an excuse to keep this as it is now. Having good pants, shirt, vest, backpack is enough for carrying most vital items nowadays. This way, the more "inventory" items you have, the more you can carry. And you should be given a choise: would the vest that has 4 1x2 slots be better for me than a holster, where I can carry my pistol and free some space in my backpack for other things? That may not be the best example but I believe you get the point.

About missions: this is also a good idea, it would provide additional goals for players. But I guess this kind of improvements should be left for when the game is nearly at the shipping stage. Same about crafting weapons and vehicles.

To be honest, DayZ has huge potential to have some RPG elements introduced in it. And why? Open world, a lot of possible activities to do (like hunting animals, little "quests"). And the more distinguished your avatar is (gaining new abilities, skills, some kind of experience), the more valuable it is for a player. And the more valuable it is for you, the more careful you play, the more immersive this game becomes, when it comes to surviving.

Cheers,

fisheye

[wonderflex 2]

I'm going to have to disagree with you. 4 min 20 s is plenty long enough. The types of people who are jumping servers to gear up are not going to be wanting to be sitting idle for 5 mins for each server they jump through. They are just not the type of player with that kind of patience for something like that. There is going to be nothing we can do to combat a player who is willing to spend 8 hours server hopping to gear up. That's going to take some true dedication and persistence right there. The only thing we can rely on is that persons gear is going to last less time than the collecting of it.

 

You and I may think nothing of running from Cherno to Svetlojarsk just to find another fresh bandage to stow in our shirt pocket because, let's be honest, the journey is what it's all about. But the average PvP server jumping gear-up player is actually wanting a play style closer to that offered by CoD/BF, and in all fairness, done pretty well in those engines.

 

Quoting from here: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/156129-confirmed-upcoming-features-for-dayz/

 

The current loot system is very server intensive, so much so that they have it turned off ATM. It is on the priority list to get this working, and I have every confidence in the Dev team to find a workable solution.

 

While your terminology seems a bit strange, at least to me, we are already seeing something similar in-game already. Large capacity backpacks have been reduced in number, for instance. Now we have a lot more smaller backpacks spawning in and much much fewer larger ones. Yes, you can luck in with the %s and find a large one early, but so far I've not seen on on the experimental servers. (This may be solely due to the fact that the Exp servers are ALWAYS at or near capacity, though).

 

As to the ability to gear-up quickly in full military gear, you should have been here last month. Gearing up used to take just as long as it took to get to the nearest military location. Mil gear has been through one major nerf already, and we are promised that once craftable and makeshift weapons go live, the mil gear and weapons will become even rarer. While not using your system exactly, the result will be close enough to make no difference.

 

As to a weapon tier system à la the Elder Scrolls series, I'm just not seeing how that sort of system can be transposed into the DayZ-verse. In Elder Scrolls we can suspend our disbelief in that an outside agency i.e. magic, can inbibe an item with variances in quality or characteristics. In DayZ, a knife is a knife. It cuts a person and makes them bleed. Beyond that it just gets complex for the sake of complexity, and starts to feel a bit gamey. The weapons currently in game are sufficiently differentiated by class i.e. pipe wrench, knife, axe, gun, etc., and for the life of me can't see the sense in artificially tying them to specific tiers to essentially get the same sort of hierarchy.

 

TBH, I think that your major concerns are going to be addressed as we progress. How far we get towards any particular solution is still open for debate. ATM I think they are focusing on long-term server stability, as they should, and will come back to tweaking spawn rates and other tunable items when we get closer to Beta and Release. Either way, I for one am enjoying the ride so far.

 

On the "pipe wrench, knife, axe," part - that actually is the type of tiering I was talking about, and is a decent example of how it is good now.  I say just space out the rarity, so you might see somebody who has played a while and is still stuck at "baseball bat" level, because it's hard to find axes.  The addition that would be nice is to have have tiers on other items as well, that don't have to be magical, or unrealistic.  Make there be low caliber weapons, which can kill just fine, but take more hits, don't shoot as far accurately, and then ramp it up from there.  Let's make the Remmington 700 be the firemen's axe of long-range rifles, and have five tiers of weapons in-between.

[crimsonbzd 247]

Honestly, the only idea there has any merit is the collective inventory slots.

 

A lot of what you said will already be addressed by beta, especially the loot.

 

Children are a huge no no. First of all, it's a pointless mechanic.

 

Secondly, you're going to have a hard time selling a game where you can shoot a baby to death, or kill a parent with a bulletproof baby who will inevitably starve.

[burkino_026@yahoo.com 14]

Missions: NO

 

Inventory: YES and i've seen/wrote many posts on same idea already. One day, hopefully, it's gonna be there and we're gonna have tons of fun playing with the mechanic of it. Staring at those cute items we found and figuring out how to carry them. (cant f****ing wait)

 

Most other things you mentioned are in the works already.

 

There is a poll on nights, which i voted for pitch black with blocked gamma option. Whats the point in a bright night? Could happen with a moon phases mechanism, once in a while, but bright nights as a default would be totally pointless to have them in the first place. Also, adding to the moon phases, would be influenced hugely by clouds.

 

Scarcity of loot and military loot. I actually like the idea of abundancy of military loot. In an outbreak such as this, i suppose you're gonna find a lot of dead soldiers. BUT, as the days and weeks pass by, EVERYTHING becomes scarce. Maybe, in the future, we could have a mechanism for spawning, or different scenarios, that depict the aging of the outbreak. I ve been playing a little bit of Dayz 2017 and I must say... It's a bitch! All you find is empty cans for hours. Then you find your first gun/rifle and you spend those ten rounds on the 50 zeds that followed you while you picked up that f***ing gun. You waste 5 of those 10 rounds, and you ultimately kill 3 zeds, leaving you with most of them still chasing you and no f***ing food, drink, bandages to survive. It's intense! I'd like to see that in a "aged" scenario. Especially with all the options and survival mechanism we're gonna get.

 

Children and dogs. Well. Personally, i'd throw everything in the mix. I'm personally not impressionable. I am mature enough to treat this game as a GAME. I would not hurt a child or a dog, or even an adult, in real life. And doing so in a game would not affect this state of mind. But i know people who are very impressionable about dog violence and would NOT want to watch a movie if they knew a dog would be harmed in it. And hate one if they watched it without knowing. I cant even imagine children violence in a game. I can remember a Star Wars game in the 90s, for Play Station, where you could light sabre mommy and little boy, but it wasnt something you were supposed to do. I guess they forgot to make them light sabre proof, or just didnt imagine players would try that s**t. I did accidentally lol. As a young teen, i felt a sudden rush of guilt and turned the game off for a bit. Then went on playing realizing they were virtual characters made of pixels. Still didnt like the idea of doing it, and the following time i paid much more attention in not accidentally killing any families.

 

Point is. Society is impressionable. And even if devs decided to put something like this in the game, most of the audience would reject it. But this, not to say I would vote no for it, or wouldnt want it in the game. If one day i loaded a new updated and BOOM I could find a child survivor and take care of him, or, BETTER, choose to play a child or teen survivor, that would be ace for me. One whole new universe of role play and immersive gameplay to explore.

As to dogs, they're gonna be in the game, as i understand, so, watch out dog lovers... be warned of those dog-snipers.

Edited February 2, 2014 by burkino_026

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Gear Levels/Rarity: 

A decent idea, to say the least. However, that would still encourage people to run around and look for gear at specific locations, rather than search carefully through closer buildings. This concept could work if mixed with some form of randomization (I.E., there still may be something valuable in the houses, so you have to decide whether it is worth it or it is better to get off of the coast to somewhere where more items are guaranteed). 

 

A major problem with this would be that they use the same models (although there is variation) and the spawning of items goes off of the building's model. It would take a very long time for them to either change the map so only certain buildings spawned stuff or they coded loot to every possibly spawn individually.

 

Also, no AK-12 or M107. Although I'm not particularly against the M107, I just don't feel you could justify it actually being there even with US involvement. The AK-12 is an experimental gun which would probably never show up, either. I'd rather have the rarest (Russian) AR be an AK-100 series gun instead of an AK-12 or AN-94, considering those have a higher degree of service. Additionally, an Arctic Warfare .338 would probably be your largest justifiable high-caliber sniper.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[wonderflex 2]

Gear Levels/Rarity: 

A decent idea, to say the least. However, that would still encourage people to run around and look for gear at specific locations, rather than search carefully through closer buildings. This concept could work if mixed with some form of randomization (I.E., there still may be something valuable in the houses, so you have to decide whether it is worth it or it is better to get off of the coast to somewhere where more items are guaranteed). 

 

A major problem with this would be that they use the same models (although there is variation) and the spawning of items goes off of the building's model. It would take a very long time for them to either change the map so only certain buildings spawned stuff or they coded loot to every possibly spawn individually.

 

Also, no AK-12 or M107. Although I'm not particularly against the M107, I just don't feel you could justify it actually being there even with US involvement. The AK-12 is an experimental gun which would probably never show up, either. I'd rather have the rarest (Russian) AR be an AK-100 series gun instead of an AK-12 or AN-94, considering those have a higher degree of service. Additionally, an Arctic Warfare .338 would probably be your largest justifiable high-caliber sniper.

I agree on the weapons, I was just trying to show some form of high and low. The selection of weapons can be post unto its self, but I would love to see a full array of Russian design based weapons - SVD/PSL, PKP, AKM, AK7M, AS VAl, Saiga 12, etc.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I agree on the weapons, I was just trying to show some form of high and low. The selection of weapons can be post unto its self, but I would love to see a full array of Russian design based weapons - SVD/PSL, PKP, AKM, AK7M, AS VAl, Saiga 12, etc.

PSL is Polish, but I understand what you mean. I want to see a Vz. 58 and Type 56 but I don't really see the need to have too many "AK-47" styled guns (In the end I think it'll probably be an AKM, AK-74, AKS-74U at the least and maybe a few other common models)

[wonderflex 2]

PSL is Polish, but I understand what you mean. I want to see a Vz. 58 and Type 56 but I don't really see the need to have too many "AK-47" styled guns (In the end I think it'll probably be an AKM, AK-74, AKS-74U at the least and maybe a few other common models)

PSL is Romanian

[r0nalxd 2]

• Blowgun/Craftable Weapons: Axe+Bamboo = Blowgun. Axe+Porcupine = Blowdart. Blowdart+Antifreeze= Poison Blowdart. Axe+Branch+String=Bow. Axe+Branch+Feather=Arrow Hammer+Rock=Arrow Head.

Take my beans for that one especially. However, I want the blowgun to have a non-lethal option too! I love the idea to have the option to shoot on sight (because the other one has his weapon out and pointing) and not kill. The other player regains consiousness with a burlap sack and handcuffs while hearing my voice interrogating him. If his intend was pure (scared of bandits/zeds), I knock him out with my fist, uncuff and unsack him and walk away. If he gets abusive (curse you bandit!), he gets the bullet (; . But also take the beans for the other suggestions, great thinking. Give those brains some food (beans) and rest. Edited February 12, 2014 by r0nalxd