Will the game eventually become a zombie survival game?

[fml 29]

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LOL @ thinking its hard to survive for 31 days.

[redreversed 2]

Not much to do when you got nice gear except kill some other people.

[esoh 0]

lots of people define banditry too precisely.

there are tons of players who normally don't open up on random people, but will get a thrill out of successfully ganking a highly-geared player and getting fast-tracked to power.

i for one, would never have a reason to gank some coast noobie, it's never happened to me, i've never seen it happen in person, and i've never heard someone complain about it in side chat even.

but if you have an alice pack and a DMR on your back, isn't it just logical that you have a target there too?

having said that, i do hope rocket implements a smart banditry/humanity system, because at the moment it's pretty impossible to just team up with a similarly-geared stranger and tackle the world together. it's much more common to get lit up the second you show hesitation because there was no way for him to really trust you.

that's where the problem lies, imo, insane no-life gankers will probably always exist (allegedly, lol)

[Vivoune (DayZ) 0]

I strongly really do hope they succeed with the stand-alone in making the game more of a zombie survival game rather than, like you well described, the 'PvP-fest with a splash of beans and zombies on the side' that it currently is. I personally stopped playingDayZ a few months ago because the survival feeling went just missing and whenever I logged back in the game it just felt like a regular fps deathmatch with a sandboxish twist. I was laughing at zombies, food and drinks were filling my backpack within 10 minutes of game time and I had the choice of various rifles and guns rather quickly, the only thing I was watching was players, and since I'm no bandit I just was left with nothing to do in the game but eventually roam the lands and die from a player bullet, I couldn't even blame the guy since the game emphasize on pvp when really it should just be a part of the game, not the focus/finality.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Vivoune

[Sneakers O'Toole 57]

The use of the term 'zombie survival simulation' is utterly without merit in this context. Laughably so. What are you people talking about?

Seems to me that this game is pvp in a zombie apocalypse background, with survival elements. Which falls about 10^30 lines of code short of a simulation. Just because you need to eat some beans every hour isn't any kind of justification to use the term simulation.

The ai in the mod is pathetic, understandably so given the arma 2 constraints. Even in the standalone, with revamped ai, it's still going to be easy, because it's ai. What kind of people are satisfied with ai? This is a multiplayer game, because the best opponents in any game are other people. If it was enough to just survive against zombies then why do you need to play multiplayer?

The fact that there is absolutley no single player element to this whatsoever should make it obvious that this game is about other players. What kind of people are content to shoot predicable ai, in groups or otherwise?

What this game has, is the 'heart-in-mouth' moments that make your heart beat like crazy. The reason for that is because you are fighting another human being.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Hyp3r

[puppetworx 474]

Yes. Zombies can't attack you while moving just now but as soon as they can we're in for a world of hurt.

[jbircher96 0]

The game is what you make of it. If you want less PVP- go to empty servers.

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

While you might say you can get random PVP from any other game it really just depends how you do it because DayZ is still different from random FPS games.

Number one the map is very large which limits the interaction with other players. If you are off in a distant area it's often an actual surprise when you come across another player being the world is open and not set up to funnel players anywhere. This in turn allows you to actually "hunt" other players like a sport.

Once you start hunting players for sport the PVP is much more challenging than just running around wildly & or sniping from safety. Personally I tend to mix it up a bit, I hunt players for sport, but I do it in a sort of run & gun way. I gear up with what ever I can find and soon as I have a weapon the hunt is on and the weapon I have determines the tactics I use. I tend to call it cherno champion even though I'm usually not in cherno lol.

The zombie simulation part is just kinda on hold IMO due to all the hackers. It's just a wasted effort to worry about gearing up just to get killed by a kid with a script.

Edited September 25, 2012 by crockett

[venthos 605]

The most reassuring thing amidst reading the posts upset about "people kill people :(" is that Rocket has constantly stated with absolution that players will be the biggest threat in the game by design. This obviously means player VERSUS player will be a cornerstone of the game. Not just shooting people, but "versus" player in terms of vying for resources/vehicles/camp sites/etc. If this make you upset and you want to play "Fischer Price Presents: Zombie Tickle Carnival" where all you do is team up with people who can't hurt you to kill zombie AI, then you should take this opportunity to seek a new game that's marketed accordingly.

DayZ will forever be focused around PvP elements with the other criteria (zombies included) being supporting mechanics for the PvP aspect. This is what makes it different from the other games, and why DayZ is and will continue to be awesome. I have no problems if it drives away the crowd that is hoping for a PvE focused game.

[thelonewarrior 886]

This could be solved by making zombies do 3000 damage per hit.

Then no one would fire a shot at each other, it wouldnt be worth the risk.

AS50 on a hill?

Bang

Now 50 zombies are heading your way and your not going to lose them without help.

Might sound harsh, but that would at least make players help each other when stuck in a city and swarmed by zombies, there would just be no hope of survival alone against 50 zombies, together you may at least have a fighting chance.

So killing the other player who has just walked into your building would be pointless if you both have good gear, as it should be made so if you both die you now have the added challenege of fighting your way back into the horde to reclaim your gear which would be 10 times harder

But you would still get players killing others for better gear, but in most cases they would team up to fight the horde otherwise everytime you kill other players you would die from zombies, eventually most players would stop killing other players at least while in the cities to avoid being swarmed themselves

Add a 10 second log out procedure and you wont be able to avoid the horde, and if you kill a player and then log out, it should track how many times you do this and punish you for logging out of combat if you have killed a player within 2mins of logging out.

So during those 2 minutes you would be fighting the horde, which then comes in the 10 second log out where you cant move, but can still be killed, but can cancel it at any time during the 10 seconds.

Seems so simple, yet no one has attempted this yet

Edited September 25, 2012 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[venthos 605]

It would never happen for the aforementioned reasons Rocket has stated with absolution. So, it's moot to discuss it.

[crockett (DayZ) 41]

This could be solved by making zombies do 3000 damage per hit.

Then no one would fire a shot at each other, it wouldnt be worth the risk.

AS50 on a hill?

Bang

Now 50 zombies are heading your way and your not going to lose them without help.

Might sound harsh, but that would at least make players help each other when stuck in a city and swarmed by zombies, there would just be no hope of survival alone against 50 zombies, together you may at least have a fighting chance.

So killing the other player who has just walked into your building would be pointless if you both have good gear, as it should be made so if you both die you now have the added challenege of fighting your way back into the horde to reclaim your gear which would be 10 times harder

But you would still get players killing others for better gear, but in most cases they would team up to fight the horde otherwise everytime you kill other players you would die from zombies, eventually most players would stop killing other players at least while in the cities to avoid being swarmed themselves

Add a 10 second log out procedure and you wont be able to avoid the horde, and if you kill a player and then log out, it should track how many times you do this and punish you for logging out of combat if you have killed a player within 2mins of logging out.

So during those 2 minutes you would be fighting the horde, which then comes in the 10 second log out where you cant move, but can still be killed, but can cancel it at any time during the 10 seconds.

Seems so simple, yet no one has attempted this yet

The problem with what you describe is that it seems you want a COOP game where it's players vs environment, (PVE) but the reality is DayZ is not a PVE game, it's a Player vs Player (PVP) game with Zombie Apocalypse as the backdrop. It's not qa survival simulator or Left for Dead.. It's player vs player with zombies to annoy you.

Now you can choose how you want to accept the challenge of PVP, but not everyone has to play the same way, hence it being a sandbox.

Edited September 25, 2012 by crockett

[thelonewarrior 886]

Its not a PvP mod as standard.

its a sandbox mod, meaning players can do what they want to make the game how they want it to be

Its the players that turn it to PvP because they have no choice.

What I suggest gives them a choice, there will still be PvP, but it will be balanced and mainly in the outskirts of cities where there us little danger of attracting zombies.

Most of the players have left because of constant PvP and hacking, the same thing will happen in the standalone unless its 50/50 PvP and PvE opposed to the 99% PvP and 1% PvE it is now

Edited September 25, 2012 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[venthos 605]

Nope, you're demonstrably wrong. As mentioned, Rocket has stated beyond numerous times on virtually every interview he's done that the core mechanic of the game at heart is that players will be the biggest threat. Therefore straight from the horse's mouth you've got "This is all about PvP". You can choose to run and hide and avoid players, but you'll be avoiding them *because* the game is so PvP focused. Remember, PvP doesn't mean "killing people". It means player VERSUS player. That player may just hold you up, steal your car, raid your camp, and/or kill you. But the biggest threat will always be players, never zombies/environment. So you can wish upon a star all you want, it's never going to have a "Cuddle Bunny Mode" like you want.

[thelonewarrior 886]

Maybe your right, but the difference here is that the game makes them money, the mod doesnt.

Losing as many possible customers that have left the mod is at least half of them, more people have left because of constant PvP.

When it comes down to it, it depends on how much money they are going to make or lose.

They will make more by having it 50/50 then just constant killing. having friendly encounters half the time and fighting players half the time will make a far better game than just kill everything that moves

And your wrong, Rocket has stated a million times that he wants to work on more ways to get players to work together and is working on things such as building bases that can not be attempted with one player

It will always have PvP elements, im just saying it will do better if theres more than just shoot

Im not saying take away PvP, im saying balance it so more people want to play the game.

End of the day its not my problem, if 50% of players quit and go elsewhere then I wont be the one losing money

I know of a few people who are waiting to see if anything to help add at least some PvE is going to be in the standalone, if it turns out like the mod with the exact same course of play, there are going to be a lot of people that go elsewhere

Edited September 25, 2012 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[venthos 605]

Maybe your right, but the difference here is that the game makes them money, the mod doesnt.

Losing as many possible customers that have left the mod is at least half of them, more people have left because of constant PvP.

When it comes down to it, it depends on how much money they are going to make or lose.

They will make more by having it 50/50 then just constant killing. having friendly encounters half the time and fighting players half the time will make a far better game than just kill everything that moves

And your wrong, Rocket has stated a million times that he wants to work on more ways to get players to work together and is working on things such as building bases that can not be attempted with one player

Im not saying take away PvP, im saying balance it so more people want to play the game.

End of the day its not my problem, if 50% of players quit and go elsewhere then I wont be the one losing money

I find it disturbing that you consider PvP something that's reserved for lone wolves. I PvP constantly... with my squad... who works together. In standalone we'll work together as well, have friendly squads, etc. But I'll raid/steal/kill everyone else's stuff. So, you're wrong again, base building/etc. is not mutually exclusive to PvP. It's indifferent to it, just like it's indifferent to PvE.

Playing the money card here is pretty funny. That's the whole reason DayZ is what it is... because Rocket doesn't care about the money. Bohemia knows what they're getting by putting Rocket in charge and they're letting him stay in charge. You've spent too much time with EA games if you think DayZ standalone is going to be influenced by finances. Rocket has stated that he's only asking for as much money for the game as is needed to fund its development, and not a dime more. Rocket isn't out to make huge profits. He's out to make a game. BIS knows this. They'll make money, but Rocket isn't going to add/remove/change features based on what he thinks will sell. He's going to add/remove/change features based on his vision for what would make a damn cool game. Again, you've spent too much time with AAA titles from EA and other bullshit publishers. This is, as Rocket puts it, the anti-game. You can't apply EA financial logic to this situation.

I would be perfectly happy if the kids who want fluffy time adventures boil away and DayZ is left to its core community that want to play a unique and punishing game. Kind of like how ARMA2 is its niche community. The key to Rocket's success is going to be ignoring posts from the community at large regarding game design decisions. Rocket's "against the grain" game design works, and most of us want more of the same cool stuff that's spewing from his mind.

I would rather that folks like yourself who hate DayZ's core mechanics go check out WarZ and such. This isn't a dig on WarZ, but WarZ is definitely being marketed towards a more casual crowd. They're even going to have built-in "fluffy bunny character mode" to make dying a non-issue. I do not care if they don't go for DayZ standalone because they want more of the same tired old games.

[thelonewarrior 886]

I dont hate dayzs core mechanics, warz looks shit, its nothing like dayz in any way except for the zombies.

I enjoy the pvp, what I dont enjoy is spawning and being sniped over and over at spawn points because they think that is what pvp is.

Ive never played an EA games and dont give a shit about them, dayz is one of the few games I play, none of which are from any of the crap you have mentioned.

Point is, I am open to your opinion of having pvp. You have no space for anyone elses views, neither of us are right or wrong.

I have just stated that every player I know has left from bordom of doing nothing but shoot other players for months on end, there is nothing unique about that, every other game can bring that to the table.

Giving people options on how to play is what a sandbox game is, letting them make their own path.

The game cant be defined as a sandbox game if it is only geared towards pvp.

The reason there are so many leavers and hackers is because they get board of killing people over and over, if theres nothing else to do but kill everything the only difference is that there is zombies, if they had something else to look forward to apart from just shooting constantly then there would be far fewer people leaving and/ or hacking.

Any player (except you maybe) will tell you that its the times that they meet people that dont shoot them are the best times they have in game, because its different and a nice change.

Eiether way, both of us are not right or wrong, but im sure your going to tell me how more than 1% of the game being friendly makes it a 'carebear game'

So just to clarify, you would rather shoot a player, shoot the next player. shoot the next player

or would you rather have, oh look hes friendly, im gonna help him for a while, he can at least distract the zombies until he has a gun I want.

Oh look a group of 8 people well armed that dont want to shoot me, ill join them for now and take them all out the moment I get the chance.

Of course you would rather shoot them then have any of these or a million other scenarios where you could actuallly have a differnet experience.

Having a 50/50 game would mean many more scenarios like infiltrating a group as you actually know they wont shoot you all the time

PS: you live in a hole in the ground dont you? Do you hate human contact so much, except for your small band of orcs.....I thought so.....go back to COD

Edited September 25, 2012 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[Deppy 5]

I like that the developers have been making zombies much harder, but I don't think it'll ever shift. It's not the game's fault, it's the player's fault. It's the type of mindset that most people have in a video game nowadays. See someone, shoot him. If you don't think like that then it's generally: see someone, "Oh boy I'll troll him hard and kill him."

I always try to help people when I can, but I haven't really made it that far yet :P.

To be fair to the game itself though, there really isn't too much to do once you've gotten a sniper rifle other than kill players. I really don't think bandits themselves are the problem. There are only a select few people who have sniper rifles on each server because they are so rare, and as a community, we can know with 95% certainty where they are (airfield, Stary Sobor, etc). It's the fact that as soon as a new player gets a gun they just want to go around and kill everybody. And as soon as the innocent naive player is killed by one of them, he then becomes paranoid and is forced to kill everyone he sees for fear of being attacked again. It's a never ending cycle of fear that causes everyone to not trust each other and feel the need to shoot first and ask questions later.

The only way to fix that is to make some kind of better marking for bandits, like how there used to be skins. I honestly don't even know why they were removed in the first place. Somehow, we have to show the players that killing each other isn't the option. Banditry is fun, I understand it, and I can support it. They are generally in small numbers and easy to avoid. It's the beginner players who ruin the fun for everyone else.

Very well said sir

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

I hope so. Sadly you're correct OP