Combat Logging - Massive Game Killer for DayZ

[djporternz 644]

CONCLUSION: (For those who can't or won't read.) Quid pro quo. What are you willing to see in the game that specifically helps my play style, if I say yes to this to help yours? If your answer is nothing, then I say no system of rules and/or enforcement at all. End of.

 

Well it seems there is no punishment for combat logging in DayZ yet.

There is no punishment for ANYTHING in DayZ yet. And if they are going to add any sort of punitive systems into DayZ, where would you like them to stop?

 

But let's assume that you are all that important and they institute a log-out timer. How long? Let's say 10 sec. And let's play pretend with a few simple cases:

 

1. I'm in the Stary Sobor Supermarket and you're over at NWAF;
2. You're at NWAF and I'm 800m away on a hill taking pot-shots at you; and
3. We're both at NWAF and engaged in a heated CQC firefight.

 

So result:

 

1. Who cares. 10 sec is nothing.
2. Who cares. 10 secs isn't going to be enough time for you to get there, and if you could have shot him and haven't, well, that's a personal problem. Whether he logs or moves away, so what. Tell yourself he logged to make yourself feel better and move on.
3. In this case your 10 secs may make a difference. IFF you are in a position to immediately take advantage of the situation, take the shot, kill the guy, and retieve all that lovely ruined gear.

 

So, does that solve the situation for you. Probably. If you extend the timer to allow for case two, how long is long enough?

 

30 secs? Still not long enough. Maybe if you run full speed in a straight line at the sniper on the hill, but that's just a bone-head move and you'd deserve to be sent packing for the coast.

 

1~2 min? Now you're starting to get into the area of hinderance to legitimate players. And when that happens there will be a backlash, and IMHO deservidly so.

 

So, let's say that we argue back and forth for a bit, and it gets decided that 15 secs is an adequate time and not everybody is happy but we're willing to compromise and it is put in. You now have the ability to take immediate advantage of any limp dick logger and I'm not really impacted as I'm not there at the time so don't have a dog in that fight.

 

Great. But this is a quid pro quo world, so I'm going to ask 'You got what you wnated (mostly), now, what are you going to give me?' See how this is going? You get something to enhance your style of play, and I'm expecting the same sort of consideration to my style of play. Nothing too complex here.

 

So you say, 'Well, what do you want, then?'

 

I don't PvP. I don't carry any sort of gun in-game, ATM. I've a fire axe for the Zs, and for the rest, well, it's never been an issue either way. But I don't like Arsehats.

 

Now, you're asking yourself what exactly is an Arsehat. An Arsehat it that style of play where you get a fully geared player camping down on the coast and toasting his marshmallows by killing the freshies (noobs or bambis) who happen to have the unfortunate luck to want to play the game. Or that type of Thuggy who will strip a player of all there gear, and then kill the player who is now in the same state or worse, as a freshie.

 

Now I don't want much, same as you don't want much. I just want an indication of the Arsehattedness of a player when they come striding up to me. It's not going to be any more onerous on any legitimate hardman as yourself than the log out timer is on me, as you aren't an Arsehat.

 

Wait, I'm hearing an objection from the back of the room. 'But that's the way DayZ is meant to be played! No rules!' Apart from probably being an Arsehat, Sir, you're absolutely correct. Not only does DayZ have no rules, it also has absolutely no method of enforcing responsibility on a player for any actions that they care to take in game.

 

But the point is, the OP not only wants DayZ to create an arbitrary rule, but also enforce it over the entire player base. All I'm saying is that if he gets his way (and it looks like he will from comments from the devs), then why can't I expect the same consideration. Seems only fair.

 

(The Arsehat suggestion is only used as an example of a Rule/Enforcement imposed on the entire player base that has minimal effect but wider consequences. And for the record, I would support it as a measure in game.)

 

CONCLUSION: (For those who can't or won't read this.) Quid pro quo. What are you willing to see in the game that specifically helps my play style, if I say yes to this to help yours. If your answer is nothing, then I say no system of rules and/or enforcement at all. End of.

Edited January 15, 2014 by DJPorterNZ

[Mege 2]

[...]

CONCLUSION: (For those who can't or won't read this.) Quid pro quo. What are you willing to see in the game that specifically helps my play style, if I say yes to this to help yours. If your answer is nothing, then I say no system of rules and/or enforcement at all. End of.

You're not making sense, this is not about a "play style", combat logging is awful under every aspect and adds nothing to the game. If you disagree on this, then you're either delusional or just enjoy having a "different opinion" to feel special.

Beside you're acting as if every change made to the game was to be considered "detrimental to someone's play style".

No, combat logging is not a play style.

No, you won't get anything back if they change/remove it. Actually, you don't even deserve anything back.

[Element47 2480]

15 minutes combat flag timer. if a player logs out while combat flag active, his character remains in game, visible and attackable, until end of timer.


of course, we'd need reliable means to determine whether a player entity is in combat or not. so, what could trigger combat state? after given this issue some thought, i think one possible approach could be the relative visibility:

if a weapon is used while a player entity is rendered on screen, the source player and any player he is able to see recieves/refreshes combat flag. (maybe additionally any character that is within 30m range but beyond FOV)


15 minutes work fine in EvE Online, which features ruthless PvP. If you took part in a heated firefight at one of the hotspots, 15 minutes is by chance approx the time you'd need to find a safe logout spot in some foliage. Would probably help with ghosting too.

 

 

as a medic, i suffer less than more combat-oriented players from this awfully cowardish plague. but a plague it is, and it needs to be addressed, as soon as balancing combat becomes an important issue on the agenda.

 

but i am not in support of the "gief feature X nao" mentality. the issue is important, the amount of discussions - and the passion in them - show it clearly. thus i am absolutely convinced that the dev team is aware of it, and how important it is to the player base. i am sure they will react accordingly.



 

Edited January 16, 2014 by e47

[vladiman 25]

15 minutes work fine in EvE Online, which features ruthless PvP. If you took part in a heated firefight at one of the hotspots, 15 minutes is by chance approx the time you'd need to find a safe logout spot in some foliage. Would probably help with ghosting too.

I am an EvE Online player myself and using a system similar to EvE's crimewatch for PvP would be good imo. I have spent hours in that game hunting other players and running away from them and being hunted myself. If someone in that game could just log off in the middle of space during a battle with no consequence the whole game would be ruined. 

 

That game also had a logoff timer for safely logging off in space of 30 seconds. That is if you didn't have any combat flags.

 

So yeah having to wait for 15 minutes in DayZ after combat and 30-60 seconds before logging off would be nice and fix the issue of combat loggers.

[capt. beefsteak 95]

15 mins is far to long period... 1 min max, you can't shoot once you've logged period, people will be able to tell... Why complain about not being able to loot? if you are 800m from someone and shoot them and you can't get to that person in under a minute then either it was to risky anyway, or you know that they probably don't have anything of value or at least vs the risk. I think logging out while bleeding should be instant death, corpse falls on that server. Same with handcuffs, because essentally when you log out your "gone" dead anyhow..

 

By doing this you do slow KoS.. Why? well bandits don't need to because if you log, I can loot you or just kill you, more than likely I'd kill you if you logged.. I'm not a bandit but this will help them make better less trigger happy choices. Also, if your super far away and you shoot someone let's say 500m, everyone and thier mother heard you gun... Are you really going to run out in the middle of cherno for a logged dude for maybe a few more moslin or m4 rounds when you know you can't alt f4 to safety? Maybe if you were starving you'd take the chance but who the fuck is starving in this game?? And you nutsaks want canniblisim, why? for what purpose??

 

Once the log is fixed, the younger crowd will rage and ruin keyboards and the game will start taking shape.. It's really that simple..

Edited January 16, 2014 by Deepfryer

[Hero of Suburbia 40]

From now on, my reply to threads like this will only be the following:

 

α

Sign of a true douche/fanboy.

[Immersive 121]

Sign of a true douche/fanboy.

Or just speaking the truth.

[skoms 86]

I think the log out timer should be 3 minutes. And if the are a very good way to make this combat flag that someone was talking about, i would like it to be 10-15 minutes. 

 

Why?

 

Well, 3 minutes are forever if someone know you position. That means if someone is interacting with you, and if you take the pussy way out, then they have plenty of time to take all your stuff and then kill you. Thats perfect and this will prevent combat logging. all together. And this will make sure of its possible to hold up players and rob them. KoS will be less of a problem because holding up players is the only way to make sure that you get prestine stuff from the other player. If you shoot him, the stuff might be ruined. 

 

Also this will make life much more painful for server hoppers. Imagine they sadness in their eyes when they have to wait 3 minutes between every server change. 

 

You say its a problem when you just want to quit because your character is exposed for 3 minutes?

 

Well, this is not a problem.

 

1. There will be possible to make camps in this game, and i'm sure you will be safe if you log out in you camp. 

2. Plan your exit. I know thats not possible everytime, but in 99% of the time it really is. So if you know you have to quit playing soon, run to a location where you do not think anyone will find you for the next 3 minutes. Wait a few seconds and make sure you are not followed and log out. 

 

Very simple, and very fair for everyone. 

 

There must be a system like this, and i'm sure its coming soon. In the meanwhile, KoS will be the way most people choose to interact. But this will change a lot with the log out timer:)

 

I think...:-)

[methr1k2dop3 323]

Im actually not playing untill they fix combat logging and server hopping.

It really takes all of the fun outta the game if every one can port in and out anytime they please.

 

also the more posts about this the better.

Community obviously wants this fixed ASAP 

[CommandoKain 15]

Im thinking one way to fix or atleast half fix this will be to make it so that you can only have one character per server. I.E. make to so you cant just log out and log in on a different server move somewhere else then log back in. Each time you get on a new server you have a New guy and that server should then be tasked with traking you. so if you log out your just gunna have to wait awhle untill you log back in to where you were, Because maybe your Enemy is a Patient one. This will Cause a Delimha for the player on one hand he want to play the game but then he doesnt want to lose all of his hard earned loot. If he Combat logs he is going to have to wait some time before he can play agian because when he logs back in he will be right where the bad guys left him. and he cant just go play with the current guy hes has on another server so... what will he do? I also have a suggestion to the Loot System. my first one is. A bank type system is a vault that is accessed in the Main Menu of the game so you can store and equip items that he has looted in the world on his character before he logs in the server. This way if he dies the player is not always starting from scratch. I will not take away from the Experience as players will still have to be very carefull less they will deplete there stock pile. and have nothing.

[wgaf 251]

Live to fight another day people. 

 

Discretion is the better part of valor. 

[captainvette2112 84]

15 minutes combat flag timer. if a player logs out while combat flag active, his character remains in game, visible and attackable, until end of timer.

of course, we'd need reliable means to determine whether a player entity is in combat or not. so, what could trigger combat state? after given this issue some thought, i think one possible approach could be the relative visibility:

if a weapon is used while a player entity is rendered on screen, the source player and any player he is able to see recieves/refreshes combat flag. (maybe additionally any character that is within 30m range but beyond FOV)

15 minutes work fine in EvE Online, which features ruthless PvP. If you took part in a heated firefight at one of the hotspots, 15 minutes is by chance approx the time you'd need to find a safe logout spot in some foliage. Would probably help with ghosting too.

 

 

 

EvE is a little bit of a different animal.  When you combat log in EvE your ship warps to a random deep space spot in the solar system... its not like you are just sitting there out in the open.   In order for other players to get you they NEED that 15 min time period to deploy probes and track you down (depending on your skills).

 

15 mins is too long for this game IMO.   I also think that there should just be a general log out timer that is not dependent on combat.  Again its not like EVE where there is a targeting system.  I think it would be tough to create a game mechanic that could tell someone was shooting at you but missing and thus activate your timer as the victim along with theirs as the aggressor. 

 

Which is why I prefer the camp site instant log out system.... 3 mins otherwise regardless combat.   Lots of other games had this type of system and it works. 

[sidu 62]

Yestarday I sniped 2 guys fromm 800 m so they were only bliding (bigger distance less damage?). Ofc they instantly logged out after that... and they were camping for others... hate those ppl that camp on others and when fight comes to them they log out...

imo, some anti combat log system should be implementet first, before any other updates.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Sidu

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I personally think they should adopt the sleeper idea from Rust.  Too bad if you log back in on the coast with nothing, don't log out on the road or in an easy to spot location.

[Element47 2480]

EvE is a little bit of a different animal.  When you combat log in EvE your ship warps to a random deep space spot in the solar system... its not like you are just sitting there out in the open.   In order for other players to get you they NEED that 15 min time period to deploy probes and track you down (depending on your skills).7

 

in most encounters, you are scrammed, so your ship cannot warp to a random spot. we dont have such a mechanic preventing escape in DayZ either

 

15 mins is too long for this game IMO.   I also think that there should just be a general log out timer that is not dependent on combat.  Again its not like EVE where there is a targeting system.  I think it would be tough to create a game mechanic that could tell someone was shooting at you but missing and thus activate your timer as the victim along with theirs as the aggressor. 

 

hence my requirement of a reliable mechanic: "of course, we'd need reliable means to determine whether a player entity is in combat or not. so, what could trigger combat state? after given this issue some thought, i think one possible approach could be the relative visibility:

if a weapon is used while a player entity is rendered on screen, the source player and any player he is able to see recieves/refreshes combat flag. (maybe additionally any character that is within 30m range but beyond FOV)"

 

Which is why I prefer the camp site instant log out system.... 3 mins otherwise regardless combat.   Lots of other games had this type of system and it works. 

[Lancer 2-2 14]

Did Rocket not tweet a few days ago that his primary goal right now is implemented a new anti-Combat Logging/Server Hopping system?

 

 

Did the one from the mod actually work? All I remember was a flashing handgun symbol which did nothing.

 

I was running along the coast once with my trusty Lee Enfield when I heard shots, spotted two bandits sniping fresh spawns so I closed distance, used a tree for cover, aimed and fired two shots KO'ing both.

But before I could kill them off they both combat logged... the mod's version did not seem to work in my opinion.

[frosti 2165]

 

Did the one from the mod actually work? All I remember was a flashing handgun symbol which did nothing.

 

Nope. Becouse many people combat logout way before any shots are fired.

[smoq2 221]

I know combat logging and server hopping are interconnected, but the latter seems to bug me a bit more than the former.

 

Yesterday, I was in Krasnostav when the server restarted. I went to the server list, refreshed to check if it wasn't just my connection, but the server showed 0/30 players - must have been a restart.

 

I joined, and instantly began running towards NEAF. When I reached the first military building there were ~10 players already in the game. The running took probably 5-10 min.

 

The building was already picked clean. Someone who did it didn't even bother to go check the other buildings/hangars since the front door was still closed and the barred room on the right of the entrance was "untouched" - just the upper floor and the room on the lower floor were open and stripped.

 

I wouldn't mind that much, if I didn't see the same situation in the other mil building 5 min later - this is when I just rage-quit.

Edited January 16, 2014 by retro19

[onlyomaha 7]

every fucking dame same posts ! Devs already know that, stop whining please. Really i think we got like underage community here like a league of legends. Every day same posts on forum. :( 

inb4 kids rage

[Mcleane 24]

It really surpises me that people combat log I just don't see the appeal in shooting people, then any time someone gets the drop on you, you log out ASAP these people do not ruin the game on the level of hackers but they sure are on the same scumbag level as hackers. Now in the past when people combat log on me, I'm genrally not annoyed it is their choice to be that low but I find it impossible to enter there frame of mind or even understand them. 

Edited January 16, 2014 by Mcleane

[phoboss 224]

please see my signature for a possible solution. having just a logout timer would not be enough to combat the "meta game problems" that are, ghosting, combatlogging and serverhopping.

[smoq2 221]

every fucking dame same posts ! Devs already know that, stop whining please. Really i think we got like underage community here like a league of legends. Every day same posts on forum. :(

inb4 kids rage

 

I don't know if you realise this or not, you're the one that is hurting the development process right now.

 

Putting it simply for you -> If one problem is mentioned a 1000 times, it indicates that the problem is big. Software developers are thankful for that kind of feedback.

 

Do you think they would prioritise fixing combat logging if it wasn't mentioned a 1000 times?

[phoboss 224]

I don't know if you realise this or not, you're the one that is hurting the development process right now.

 

Putting it simply for you -> If one problem is mentioned a 1000 times, it indicates that the problem is big. Software developers are thankful for that kind of feedback.

 

Do you think they would prioritise fixing combat logging if it wasn't mentioned a 1000 times?

QFT. 

 

How do you know a problem is a problem when nobody talks about it? How do you know how big a problem is, if it only gets mentioned one time?

[Agent00Soul 4]

Combat loggers should lose their character on the spot when they attempt to combat log when in combat mode, when they log back on any server they should be presented with a newspawn screen...it's that simple.

 

 

This.

[godr4@yahoo.com 3]

Hi guys,

I just wanted to chip in as I feel the game, as it always has, is getting a fair old bashing.

I'm a long time player - from early mod, to our now fantastic standalone. Yes the game has problems. Yes it's incomplete. Is it one of the best games I,be played in my 30years on this planet? - if not, it's in my top 3.

We just have to be patient, guys. Rocket said he'd make a standalone and he did. He said they'd change the inventory system and he did. He said they'd improve the map and they have.

It seems everyone has gotten used to the idea that we should have a say in all of this and, for the most part, we should, but Rocket has this, dude. He is going to keep ploughing on to make this game great. Soon there'll be features that add fun far-outweighing the boredom of combat loggers. I mean, all you're really complaint about is that you never got to see in his bag. Everyone loves a mystery box, but it's not worth kworrying about.

Relax, enjoy the game, and let Rocket get on with creating one of the best games ever made.