Fixing KOS and combat logging

[Dellema 12]

(for tl;dr, just skip to the big font and start reading.)

 

Start by addressing the knee-jerk reaction to the title: KOS is fine... the frequency of it, however, takes away from the immersion in the game. In a real zombie apocalypse, people won't be running around military bases killing people for the heck of it. More often than not, interactions will be friendly. Survivors probably wouldn't be blowing each other's brains out at every opportunity. So, Day Z needs to introduce a system that balances KOS and makes it much rarer. This means addressing several categories of people who Kill on Sight:

 

The Maniac: Kills on Sight because it's fun. Likes to see other people frustrated and almost never kills for looting purposes.

 

The Bandit:Will kill any armed player he finds. Will usually save ammunition and not shoot at targets that don't seem threatening. Kills as a way to keep himself alive.

 

The Survivalist: Engages players who he deems threatening. Will avoid confrontation if possible, but if unavoidable, will be sure to get the first shot off.

 

Most forum posters seem to fall into this third categor, and follow the thoughtline that KOS is the way to play, because it's me or him. These players need relative assurance that playing nice with other players will be mutually beneficial in all circumstances.

 

Bandits: Banditry is an important and thrilling part of the game. Balancing bandits means assuring them that killing the other player isn't always the smartest option.

 

Maniacs are difficult to convince otherwise. They play, essentially, to ruin the game for others. The only way to reduce the frequency of their killing is to give some sort of penalty to them for excessively killing other players, which in essence means there isn't much you can do because this directly contradicts the whole idea of the game. There are ways to limit their madness, which will be discussed.

 

So, moving forward to the solution. The introduction of skins, bandit and hero, should help a lot, especially for survivalists. This will allow this class of people to at least deal with Bandits and Maniacs more easily. I heard another player suggest that ammunition should become incredibly rare, and this makes sense from both a realism standpoint, as well as a way to cut down on banditry. But these aren't my suggestions, and simply summarizing the suggestions of other people doesn't make for a very refreshing read. So,

 

THE POINT(of the post)

 

Is that making friends in game should be easier. "Clans" of a sort, should become a thing that is common in Day Z. This would model what would likely happen in some sort of apocalypse: people banding together to increase their chances of surviving. This provides incentive for our third group of person to actively interact with other players. Sure, player groups happen now, but it's so difficult to add people as friends, and Day Z itself doesn't really support it. If there were some sort of button in game that you could use to just add a player to your list, player groups would become much more common. All of the friendly interactions I've ever had in Day Z have become cut very short because player log out and I never see them again. I have no way of keeping tabs or friendly players.

 

A subset of this would break realism, but I would also say you should be able to see who kills you, allowing you to create your own personal "bandits" list, allowing you, and not the game, to show you who a bandit is. The side effect is that killing the wrong person could send an entire clan after you. (Not saying you would know their location, but you could at least see their server. This seems fine to me, as in real life, you wouldn't simply be able to hop severs to escape trouble. The game would then helpfully display how many (and which) tagged bandits and friends are in each sever (As it currently does for your Steam friends. A nice step, but far from where it needs to be)

 

I can sense that for some people, this breaches what Day Z is all about. I'd love constructive conversation (Rather than "You're an idiot!", as this points out the obvious and doesn't solve much) regarding this topic, so together we can refine the idea.

 

And oh, yeah, combat logging. Simple: 15 second delay upon log-out. If you would have died in those 15 seconds, maybe you shouldn't have logged out. Nothing fancy needed. Nothing frustrating like "You cannot sleep because there are monsters in the area" (from everyone's favorite pixilated free roam fantasy title). You decide when its okay to log out, and that's that. No warnings if you missed something either.

 

[InflatedLyric 39]

do you have a tl;dr for the summary too.  I am all for reading lengthy posts, just not when it is another post on fixing KoS and combat logging.

[knar33 158]

There are countless threads about this already, why do people feel the need to make more?

[Dellema 12]

Well, because I read through several and I didn't see my ideas represented anywhere, and furthermore, didn't see any that seemed like they'd work.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

do you have a tl;dr for the summary too.  I am all for reading lengthy posts, just not when it is another post on fixing KoS and combat logging.

pretty much.

Killing people is Dayz and there is NOTHING you can do to stop it.

We will shoot each other to the end of time.

making game harder wont make a difference.

Id actually shoot on sight more in fear of losing loot.

 

IMO you should only be able to log onto a server every 20-30 mins.

Somethings gotta give.

Yeah it might be frustrating logging out to join your friend but it would make it more authentic and thats just something i am willing to deal with.

I dont really understand all these kos threads.

I think people get shot then alt f4 to forums with some brilliant plan to stop that guy from shooting you.

Edited January 12, 2014 by methr1k2dop3

[Baarn 53]

You forgot one type of player: The hunter, chases other players who prey on easy targets.

 

Actually, I don't think anything has to be done about KoS, this will solve itself after more interesting gameplay has been added to the game. It wont completely vanish of course, but a lot of people are bored currently and the best thing they can do right now is to learn shooting with the new weapons.

The real problem is combat logging, but we probably don't need "yet another thread" about it, as the devs are working on solving it already and I doubt that "yet another thread" will have an influence on how it's been done.

 

If combat logging gets harder (eg timer), the Mosin KoS snipers will change their habits, too. Currently it is just too easy for them to evade the consequences.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Baarn

[DBGrip 0]

Dellema, I get  what you are saying. The regular group I play with, have gone from being cooperative with other survivors we encountered, to pretty much becoming KOS bandits if an unknown is carrying a gun.  We've had our share of new spawns blindly charges us with fists in hope of a lucky knock out blow to score a gun.  I too feel that there is little incentive to join up with people you randomly meet. There does need to be away to identify and keep track of players that have been encountered.  I feel that there will be more co-operation, and hopefully a little less KOS later in the build, when vehicles and base building is incorporated, especially if you can only build on a particular server.  I also think this will lead to less server hopping. I met a few of the people I play with now, in Origins.  We later moved to Epoch.  Having AI "missions" helped encourage cooperation as well...(sector B, anyone?)...Also encouraged bandits to drop in at the end of a team completeing a mission, but.....

 

I too, think there should be a way to identify players in the game.  The variations of character model are not enough to distinguish players, nor are the varieties of clothing.  you wear black, or you wear blue.  Your suggestion of skins has merit, there was a rudimentary system for that in Origins, and is something that should be further explored.  There has been a similar discussion on Reddit, and there are some very valid points about realism vs things that the program is unable to convey and should be dealt with.  I would at least like to see the name of who killed me, or who I killed.  If I mess up and kill a bambi new spawn, maybe if I know it's the same player on the next spawn, I'll help them out.   

 

You raise some valid points, just wanted to say you're not alone in this type of thinking. A HUD type name that only displays within 10meters, perhaps?  a note in the message log so and so killed so and so.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

This post scared me. So I logged in and shot the first person I came across. Kill on site is working fine, no need to fix. Carry on.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I do like the idea of being able to build a "list" of players, bandits or otherwise. However (and these are big howevers):

• You must survive in order to keep your list going. If you die, you "forget" your list. This gives an incentive to survive as long as possible.
• You absolutely, positive should not be able to see who kills you.
• You should never be able to see any information about players on a server before you join it. This is tantamount to giving you godlike powers, observing the world before you exist. Very inauthentic.

Please take the time to read and carefully consider my suggestion for a player identification and classification system.

 

What this system would allow you to do is "Remember" other players once you visually identify them by getting close enough, or viewing them through an optic like binoculars or a scope. You could categorize players into categories like "hostile," or "friendly," and even give them colors.

[JuX 72]

People forget fundamental thing that combat-logging fixes are used in DayZ mod and at least something similar

will appear in the DayZ standalone. This game is still ALPHA so there isnt much to do ingame yet other then

KoS simply because you can get fully geared up easily and ruined gear doesnt matter much at the moment.

Also there isnt base building yet or anything to store your items and game is lacking in items, as well in activities.

 

So please try not to forget its ALPHA and this subject has been posted countless times.