How to stimulate an Emergent Economy in DayZ - discussion

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Until Private hives or a system to stop server hopping into loot spots or other players bases comes into effect.

This idea would not work.

but once they do fix that problem or we are playing on private or grouped hives then yes sounds good.

 

Would be cool to see more hives not just the Hardcore and Casual hives.

Maybe some regional hives in places.

Maybe some of the DayZ profit could be placed into regional hives.

With a single global trade hive that you can join with your regional loot to do trades on.

Private hives are not the silver bullet you guys hype them to be...

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

Personally I am against any metagame approach to trade - such as joining another hive to trade. Regarding the loot farming/server hopping - this absolute needs to be stopped. My suggestion for this was one character per server. Not private hives - just prevent players from jumping servers with their character.

[Death_Dealer 3155]

The ability to create your own trading posts would be a cool feature

 

You'd need your own guards (no AI) to protect it though I'd imagine

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

i don't think the devs need to create an actual currency, let the players choose.

Agreed but it appears that they may have.

[barrett_killz 229]

Next time someone suggest beans as a trading system... Again this suggestion is pointless and even zombies which sneak through the doors make more sense than this topic.

[rybo 171]

How in the world do you expect a emergent economy to fuction when the world has basicaly ended. Hell, most countrys can't even do it today!

 

To answer your question.

 

You start a group of traders and get some muscle...

[gibonez 3633]

I am going to state what will probably be a rather controversial opinion but here goes.

 

I think they should just embrace what Dayz has turned into and what really it always was.

 

A sandbox PVP game with survival aspects.

 

Any of these features will just result in people playing exactly the same way as they have been,

 

Instead they should polish on what made dayz popular , PVP, Mil sim qualities aka realism, and loot.

[pacific_coast 632]

here is how trading can work:

 

you make a server or join one. (has to be a private hive.)

 

let other people know you are a trading/trader server/player.

 

if there is global chat/forum/voicechat:

spam your wares and prices.

 

eg. 1 m4 for 4 sailne bags!

      1 60rnd mag for two cantines and 2 rice

      1 epipen and 1 morphine for 2 painkillers and 2 antibiotics

       ect ect ect

 

build a base, or fortify an apartment complex.

 

have security.

 

make the customer consent to a search/hand over weapons, 100m away from your store.

 

the customer enters with what their trading and leaves with what they got.

 

they get their gun at the 100m mark and go on their merry way.

 

with 10-20 people running a merchant clan this could work.

Edited January 12, 2014 by pacific_coast

[quobble 175]

DayZ already has all of the mechanics it needs to support a basic barter economy (direct chat, and player inventories). Players just don't have any incentive to trade with each other.

 

Items never acquire any value because they are all common and anyone willing to grind the right loot spawns long enough can get anything they want. In the mod the problem became particularly obvious, over time even the rare gear got more and more common because players were continuously finding new AS-50s and NVGs but never destroying them. The standalone's item damage system will help with loot accumulation some but if the developers want a real economy to develop they probably need to cap total item quantities. For example, once the total number of M4s in the hive is equal to 10% of the active player base stop spawning new M4s until a few have been destroyed.

Rocket already mentioned that about high level gear such as NVGs. there will be a total amount on the hive, once the amount is reached, there will no mor NVGs be spawning.

[Publik 404]

here is how trading can work:

 

you make a server or join one. (has to be a private hive.)

 

let other people know you are a trading/trader server/player.

 

if there is global chat/forum/voicechat:

spam your wares and prices.

 

eg. 1 m4 for 4 sailne bags!

      1 60rnd mag for two cantines and 2 rice

      1 epipen and 1 morphine for 2 painkillers and 2 antibiotics

       ect ect ect

 

build a base, or fortify an apartment complex.

 

have security.

 

make the customer consent to a search/hand over weapons, 100m away from your store.

 

the customer enters with what their trading and leaves with what they got.

 

they get their gun at the 100m mark and go on their merry way.

 

with 10-20 people running a merchant clan this could work.

We'll probably be using Rify and basically the same procedure. At current, the process is as follows:

• Player approaches weapon holstered from Berezino and is let in by the guards
• Bouncer/doorman reads the player the house rules and searches them for contraband (grenades, etc) that could kill people en masse. The bouncer has a "word of the day" they tell entering players so returning customers can skip the rules and be searched immediately.
• Player is brought in to the rest of the traders in one of the holds
• Player can ask a FTC sales rep to oversee a trade with another player, ask about prices or appraisals, and purchase items. A runner fetches the item in house trades and takes the payment.
• When the player is done, they are led out by a guard and given any confiscated goods
• Player exits in a specified direction, either north or west

We need a bouncer, a sales rep or two, and a runner. We'll probably have CQF provide our guards, so FTC will be able to put on events with as few as 3 members, add 7 guards if we don't have CQF, and an extra 4 guards to secure the second half of the ship (which is optional).

Edited January 12, 2014 by Publik

[The Legit Pie 18]

What do you currently value the most in DayZ?

Your food?

Your clothing?

Your gun?

Your ammo?

Your life?

Trust?

 

In Epoch you can use gold to buy and sell items between NPC's, I had little to no success in having trade between players. Usually when I am in position to provide an item to another player I do so without asking anything in return but his trust. Because knowing there is another guy watching my back is more valuable to me than my items. So what can we use money for?

The only thing I can think of is an ingame store where you can purchase items with money you find while scavagin, this will also invite microtransaction which will prolong DayZ lifespan by multiple years.

No microtransactions, never, not if the games failing, just never.

[Karmaterror 982]

For me trading is fine as is. Its an extremely high pressure moment, and always should be. We have a great and varied economy, where one day a car wheel could be worth your sniper rifle and ammo. Then the next day you would happily give away the car, for something as small as a morphine shot lol.

 

Well thats in the mod, but i see it going that way as more loot, vehicles and features in general get added :)

[Tizzle 90]

I find it hard to imagine that there would be some kind of hard currency (except maybe ammunition). Whenever I come across friendly people, we always barter for goods and supplies, so based on that I think that that's probably the direction SA will head. There just needs to be some kind of system to encourage those kind of transaction over just killing and stealing the person's loot (although I suppose gear degradation when you get shot does a good job of that now)

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

You kind of were in the previous post, don't take offense to my statement, I'm simply stating that, for all we know, ammo could be 10x rarer then what it is now.  That's kind of the whole issue at hand, without knowing true rarity values, it's just that much more difficult and speculating doesn't lead to any concrete results.

No offense taken, I was not trying to set any value though, I was simply making up values to describe how it could/would/has worked.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

I find it hard to imagine that there would be some kind of hard currency (except maybe ammunition). Whenever I come across friendly people, we always barter for goods and supplies, so based on that I think that that's probably the direction SA will head. There just needs to be some kind of system to encourage those kind of transaction over just killing and stealing the person's loot (although I suppose gear degradation when you get shot does a good job of that now)

I think gear degradation will play a huge role in trading too. So using the FTC proposed system if an M4 double mag = 50 BNs then what is it worth when damaged? Will be interesting.

[yessaul robinovich 42]

bump for great justice. this guy is actually proposing stuff that answers many of the questions even newer players have with respect to 'what do yo do after you've kitted out, just run around and rack up a kill count or do stupid shit out of boredom?'

 

regarding scrap and base resources, this would be a matter of breaking down existing items. most of these ideas of economy only work in the context of a private hive with initial item spawn and, pretty much, nothing else. you can have plants that grow, you can have animals to hunt. ability to repair items using the right components and raw materials would create much less of the current 'waste spawn' of badly damaged things while still promoting the good fortune of finding pristine items..as opposed to looking pristine, repaired items would show that they've been patched up and reinforced via their textures. raw resources would include cloth scraps/yarns, metal scrap, cement and wood. etc..and would be combined into multi-step recipes with other items. badly damaged weapons could be repaired or alternately field-stripped down to components from which a series of improvised weapons could be made. I've outlined a bunch of those with images in this thread:  stuff like pistol barrels crudely marred to industrial roofing nail-guns. and other improvised zip type things, machetes or shanks.. the world starts off a depopulated version of the one we live in, but changes towards something more post-apocalyptic as different things are improvised and re-purposed.

 

anyway, take a look at this video 5 mnutes in.

 

http://youtu.be/9ZJnFfoi7gg

 

public radio spectrum could be a decent replacement for the 'side chat', could allow some people to solicit trade and meet up, while other people could just as well be listening in on that conversation and plan ambush.. etc

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/162717-solving-both-end-gamemeta-game-and-kos-problems-at-once/?p=1649709

Edited January 13, 2014 by yessaul robinovich

[yessaul robinovich 42]

sad thing is people don't really care about threads like this. they'd rather post 10 pages on 'WHY FRIENDLIES ARE A BUNCH OF LAMERS!!' etc

 

hurr fucking durr. 

Edited January 13, 2014 by yessaul robinovich

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

Publik, could you contact me on Steam once you see me online? Cheers

[Website 2]

This is very interesting! If players would be able to use wrenches and screwdrivers on weapons etc to turn them in to parts, you could deny other players from picking up those weapons and give yourself scrap (this is for example) to repair items. This would be an argument for people to even want this if they don't want to trade, but do want to limit other peoples abilities for example. 
 

Also I think giving blood donation is very under apreciated and underrated. this is the most positive power in the game and players who don't want to trade, who think they can just KoS can't make someone fill a bag of blood. (although I guess you could force someone) but there has to be a system in place where 2 avatars are in a sort of "handshake mode" where they can't doublecross each other half way through the action. -"but you could also do that in real life!", although true, you can also look into someones eyes if they can be trusted, in the real world (not accounting for sociopaths and psychopaths, wich would maybe for arguments sake be 50% of players in DayZ :P) So a handshake or ceasefire would be preferable, if you wanted to trade. Also It would be cool to offer people GPS locations to stashes of "treasure" so that players can maybe bury ammo serverside in the woods. and write down the GPS locations for later use. or for trade. 

And of course Cars with a sort of "combinationlock" so you can't kill a player for their car if they'd want to enforce a trade system. They wouldn't cary the carcombination lock on a note on their person so it can't be taken from your inventory. 

 

My 2 pence

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

Thanks for the input Website, although personally I'm against enforced ceasefires and other 'game' mechanics - I really want to be paranoid throughout a trade. Same goes for combination locks on cars - you should totally be able to kill someone for their car (although car keys and a possible bypass via hot-wiring would be great).

[yessaul robinovich 42]

 but there has to be a system in place where 2 avatars [..] can't doublecross each other half way through the action

 

classic example of a person who does not get what dayz is about.

which is refraining from attempts to design morality or behaviour.

when you create rigid systems to frame interaction, you diminish capacity for emergent gameplay.

Edited January 13, 2014 by yessaul robinovich