Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[The_Man 393]

Let me just restate that this thread is NOT about REMOVING THIRD PERSON. The last thread turned into that discussion and it was locked. 

 

Maybe we should keep this thread to fixing third person rather than removing it. That discussion is for another thread in my opinion. 

[tommes 331]

Here's an interesting article about motion sickness. Read the comments!

 

http://kotaku.com/5869607/how-motion-sickness-can-ruin-games-and-the-meds-used-to-fight-it

 

Favorite methods of fighting it seem to be

- increasing FOV

- disabling post processing effects and the like (I'd count stuff like head bot into that)

- taking motions sickness remedy or ginger

- using sunglasses or special computer work glasses

Edited January 8, 2014 by tommes

[tommes 331]

Let me just restate that this thread is NOT about REMOVING THIRD PERSON. The last thread turned into that discussion and it was locked. 

It didn't turn into it. It was the topic from the beginning.

[gibonez 3633]

Let me just restate that this thread is NOT about REMOVING THIRD PERSON. The last thread turned into that discussion and it was locked. 

 

Maybe we should keep this thread to fixing third person rather than removing it. That discussion is for another thread in my opinion. 

 

To me the only way to fix it is to remove it.

 

There is in my mind no possible way to fix it other than removing it thus it will be what I suggest.

[tommes 331]

To me the only way to fix it is to remove it.

 

There is in my mind no possible way to fix it other than removing it thus it will be what I suggest.

The devs won't remove it. If you actually want to contribute better help in solving the exploitabilty of 3PP.

 

This is politics. You have to listen to and respect others opinions, no matter how ridiculous they are. You can only achieve what you can get the majority to support or at least not oppose....and as in politics the outcome will probably satisfy nobody...

[The_Man 393]

The devs won't remove it. If you actually want to contribute better help in solving the exploitabilty of 3PP.

 

This is politics. You have to listen to and respect others opinions, no matter how ridiculous they are. You can only achieve what you can get the majority to support or at least not oppose....and as in politics the outcome will probably satisfy nobody...

 

Well I wouldn't be so sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if the choice is made by them to remove it completely. I wish they wouldn't but the more I learn about the decision making of the team leads me to believe that they will force everyone to play in first person. 

 

 It doesn't really matter if the majority wants third person. If the developers feel that it takes away from the experience of the game then it will be gone. 

 

 

Here's an interesting article about motion sickness. Read the comments!

 

http://kotaku.com/5869607/how-motion-sickness-can-ruin-games-and-the-meds-used-to-fight-it

 

Favorite methods of fighting it seem to be

- increasing FOV

- disabling post processing effects and the like (I'd count stuff like head bot into that)

- taking motions sickness remedy or ginger

- using sunglasses or special computer work glasses

 

I've tried all of those things. I still can't play this game in first person for too long compared to other first person shooters. The best remedy I tried was the FOV but then again... I really dislike playing with such a huge FOV. Really gives me a disadvantage against other players. 

 

In conclusion, I'll deal with it if they remove third person. Not a big deal since I am in first person for all combat anyway. I just don't think I'll be able to play for as long as I usually do. Running for long distances in first person...no thank you! 

 

Damn the people who exploit third person. I really never do that. I guess if it is growing problem and people feel they are being exploited by it then go ahead and remove it. For the better good right? Just sucks for people like me. 

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

The devs won't remove it. If you actually want to contribute better help in solving the exploitabilty of 3PP.

 

This is politics. You have to listen to and respect others opinions, no matter how ridiculous they are. You can only achieve what you can get the majority to support or at least not oppose....and as in politics the outcome will probably satisfy nobody...

 

Those are the exact same politics that kept Rocket from being able to find a developer for his game in the first place. The suits said the majority wouldn't play it, they said it wouldn't be profitable. So, he made it as a free mod and showed them that the majority doesn't account for everyone. DayZ wasn't for everyone. But, that made it more attractive to a lot of people.

 

The idea that pleasing the majority will make DayZ better, is just not something I can agree with. I think this game needs to stick to its roots and make the hard decisions despite popular opinion. It was born out of rejecting the opinions of the majority and embracing the fringes of gaming. Doing what other games were afraid to, going where they wouldn't, & causing emotion most games wouldn't dare put on a player.

 

But yeah, let's not even discuss removing the invisible parascope view, cause that might upset some players.

Edited January 8, 2014 by bad_mojo

[The_Man 393]

 

 

But yeah, let's not even discuss removing the invisible parascope view, cause that might upset some players.

 

Either they don't remove it or they decide to make the player view "brutally realistic". A lot of things need to be done besides removing third person to remove the superhuman powers the player currently has. Zoom only available through scopes (no right click magical zoom) and removed third person. That would be hardcore, brutally realistic and fair for everyone. 

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Honestly, I just see a "brutally realistic" 3rd person view as a contradiction in itself. A bastardization of what is a very useful camera view. The only way to really fix third person view, will also render it pointless for most players. It won't be third person view anymore, it will be a disembodied first person view. To me, it all seems like a big waste of development time & computer resources that can be used better.

 

If they don't want to dictate how players experience the game, they have to leave the current third person view in. Because any type of "fix" is dictating that someone can't look over walls in their experience.

[BL1P 252]

Either they don't remove it or they decide to make the player view "brutally realistic". A lot of things need to be done besides removing third person to remove the superhuman powers the player currently has. Zoom only available through scopes (no right click magical zoom) and removed third person. That would be hardcore, brutally realistic and fair for everyone. 

 

Agreed also

Stop the ability to remove shadows

Stop the ability to alter gamma and brightness

Stop the ability to lower textures so players stand out against blurry texture backgrounds

Stop the ability to use FOV to zoom in let them zoom out still, in case they get a poorly from moving in a game.

Stop Admins being able to reset servers for new loot

Stop Admins being able to reset the time on a server

 

All of these on top of the incoming environment and gameplay updates would make Hardcore really mean Hardcore and not just ooo great no 3rd mode.

[tommes 331]

You guys getting off topic.

[The_Man 393]

You guys getting off topic.

 

The discussion was off topic before we started posting here. This was a fix 3PP (not remove) thread yet the discussion of removing it was brought up by you and others. Report us and yourself by the way. 

[The_Man 393]

Honestly, I just see a "brutally realistic" 3rd person view as a contradiction in itself. A bastardization of what is a very useful camera view. The only way to really fix third person view, will also render it pointless for most players. It won't be third person view anymore, it will be a disembodied first person view. To me, it all seems like a big waste of development time & computer resources that can be used better.

 

If they don't want to dictate how players experience the game, they have to leave the current third person view in. Because any type of "fix" is dictating that someone can't look over walls in their experience.

 

3PP offers a quick FOV change without having to go into the menu. If they allowed me to bind FOV to keys then I wouldn't go into third person. 

[tommes 331]

The discussion was off topic before we started posting here. This was a fix 3PP (not remove) thread yet the discussion of removing it was brought up by you and others. Report us and yourself by the way. 

I did not bring it up here in this thread.

 

Btw, in Arma and therefore the mod double tapping minus on num pad increases FOV by zooming out.

Edited January 8, 2014 by tommes

[gibonez 3633]

Either they don't remove it or they decide to make the player view "brutally realistic". A lot of things need to be done besides removing third person to remove the superhuman powers the player currently has. Zoom only available through scopes (no right click magical zoom) and removed third person. That would be hardcore, brutally realistic and fair for everyone. 

 

See thats the thing.

 

The "magical" right click zoom has a basis for being in the game. There is a very real reason why its included in game. It is there because of the sheer lack of resolution in computer monitors and it tries to simulate what your eye sight is able to see at longer distances. Being that Arma 2 is a sim you can see how this would be insanely important to include.

 

3pv and being able to see over walls magically has no real life reason to be included.

[tommes 331]

It won't be third person view anymore, it will be a disembodied first person view. 

For the record, "a disembodied view" is like the textbook definition of 3PP.

[tommes 331]

Now, does anybody have something to get at least a little closer to a possible solution for fixing 3PP in DayZ besides the 4th wall script?

Without something like that there can only be putting the virtual camera much closer towards the body, maybe like 30cm behind and 20cm up. It wouldn't be drone view anymore but merely "helmet camera". That should be easy to implement and therefore tested.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

The point I was trying to make by calling it a disembodied first person view was that it'll be first person view from another perspective. Rather than looking over the shoulder like we do now, you will have to live through the characters eyes, without actually looking through them. Players won't just pick it up naturally like they do with the current third person view.

[floj 393]

Honestly, I just see a "brutally realistic" 3rd person view as a contradiction in itself. A bastardization of what is a very useful camera view. The only way to really fix third person view, will also render it pointless for most players. It won't be third person view anymore, it will be a disembodied first person view. To me, it all seems like a big waste of development time & computer resources that can be used better.

 

If they don't want to dictate how players experience the game, they have to leave the current third person view in. Because any type of "fix" is dictating that someone can't look over walls in their experience.

 

 

Now, does anybody have something to get at least a little closer to a possible solution for fixing 3PP in DayZ besides the 4th wall script?

Without something like that there can only be putting the virtual camera much closer towards the body, maybe like 30cm behind and 20cm up. It wouldn't be drone view anymore but merely "helmet camera". That should be easy to implement and therefore tested.

The other alternative I've been throwing around in my head is a completely nerfed 3PP view... only have your own player model and terrain models visible on it. Would be useful even for us 1PP players - Am I completely in cover? Could be used for travelling unsafely.

 

Helmet/shoulder cam ala Gears of War/Res Evil would work well also. Would still offer a slight advantage and you'd notice all the 3PP players would only ever go anticlockwise around buildings, but it's an option.

 

Also I was trying to research 3PP competitive games and I finally found one but I don't think the people wishing for omnivision will be happy with me for doing so. World of Tanks uses 3PP for positioning yourself in cover but also has huge amounts of server resources (30%) dedicated to visibility mechanics to prevent exploitation of the viewpoint. http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Battle_Mechanics#Visibility

[tommes 331]

The point I was trying to make by calling it a disembodied first person view was that it'll be first person view from another perspective. Rather than looking over the shoulder like we do now, you will have to live through the characters eyes, without actually looking through them. Players won't just pick it up naturally like they do with the current third person view.

You're still being really negative about things. How about changing your approach and leave the "that's all bullshit" part for another day and place? Try to find possible solutions to the problem! Please! If we don't change our patterns we will have the same old circle debate again.

 

I remember someone having this idea back in the big thread in September of blurring out everything not in LOS. That would eliminate the exploits while beeing obvious and therefore probably more intuitive at least This probably must be combined with the 4th wall to make sense.

[tommes 331]

The other alternative I've been throwing around in my head is a completely nerfed 3PP view... only have your own player model and terrain models visible on it. Would be useful even for us 1PP players - Am I completely in cover? Could be used for travelling unsafely.

 

Helmet/shoulder cam ala Gears of War/Res Evil would work well also. Would still offer a slight advantage and you'd notice all the 3PP players would only ever go anticlockwise around buildings, but it's an option.

 

Also I was trying to research 3PP competitive games and I finally found one but I don't think the people wishing for omnivision will be happy with me for doing so. World of Tanks uses 3PP for positioning yourself in cover but also has huge amounts of server resources (30%) dedicated to visibility mechanics to prevent exploitation of the viewpoint. http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Battle_Mechanics#Visibility

The helmet camera must be centered and as close to the eyes as possible to minimize exploitation.

 

Possible solutions should be relatively simple codewise and not use much server or client ressources.

[Mopp_94 29]

I dont have a problem with 1PP only, or 3PP only, or mixed players. But I dont think one side should be shunned because some people dont like the other. I dont see the problem with having 1PP only servers and 3PP only server and mixed. (So that 3PP can still ADS). 

 

I just think having separate servers solves this problem and IMHO no further action needs to be taken. 

[floj 393]

I don't need to read anything in this thread because its already perfect.

 

If you want 3p go play on a 3p server, otherwise go on a 1p server.

sigh...if you can't be bothered to read anything in the thread (even just the OP would have been a good start), please don't bother commenting in forums ever again. Where's that remove beans button?

EDIT: Ditto for Mopp - it affects game balancing later on in the development process and how players experience the devs intentions for a game. Please read the thread.

 

 

The helmet camera must be centered and as close to the eyes as possible to minimize exploitation.

 

Possible solutions should be relatively simple codewise and not use much server or client ressources.

Completely agree.

Edited January 8, 2014 by phlOgistOn

[Rufert 146]

I'm perfectly fine with casual and hardcore servers, let people pick what they want, not having both sides soured by compromise.

[floj 393]

I'm perfectly fine with casual and hardcore servers, let people pick what they want, not having both sides soured by compromise.

Just call it easy/normal...casual/hardcore sounds elitist and scares noobs off.