*Long Post* The Intuition System and how it can work within DayZSA (Read before flaming)

[Slyguy65 499]

First off, NO this is not a thread saying "STOP ALL THE PVP", PVP is the heart of the game just as looting and surviving is.

 

Secondly, I make this because no matter what all the bandits try to argue, morality is part of human nature and it IS realistic to have, not everyone is a psychopath and the game should reflect that.

Also this system can be used to "identify" players conditions just like "study body" is used for dead people, this would help others know what the player knows; i.e if the player they inspect is hungry, thirsty, sick, etc.

 

To begin, the whole topic of KOS and bandits is getting annoying to read due to the fact both sides have the same arguement

 

Non-bandits: "Give us a system that punishes assholes who just camp 24/7, its annoying"

Bandits: "Get better at the game, morality and sanity HAS NO PLACE IN DAYZ"

 

Why the non bandit is wrong- As I said at the top, PVP is something that is and always will be a major part of the game, understand and accept that. BUT these people have a fair point, No, not that bandits should be "punished" but there does need to be a system.

 

Why the bandits are wrong- Honestly the bandits are just as ignorant and annoying as the people crying for punishment. ESPECIALLY the assholes who have the gaul to say "morality/sanity isn't REALISTIC"...Are...are you shitting me? No really please, cause last time I checked post apocolyptic or not, PEOPLE are HUMAN BEINGS and have feelings which can lead to inner conflict. Ya there will be a lot of sadists but last time I checked in every theorized scenario of the apocolypse there is a nice divide between psychopaths and sane people trying to get by. Not to mention the hypocracy when people try advocating more SURVIVAL mechanics and they get flamed for not being a suggestion for more guns.

 

Simply put there should be a system that fits within the dayz parameters, to help IDENTIFY these two kinds of people. (Or just people in general)

NO IM NOT TALKING ABOUT BANDIT SKINS DO NOT ASSUME

 

 

The System

To get down to it the system I think would fit and work well with stand alone is this.

As I stated it would be an IDENTIFIER. Therefore people still choose to take whatever action except with just a tad more knowledge.

Better yet let us call it the "Intuition system" (Bare with me it can either be elaborate or simple)

 

The system would work just like everything else does when it comes to telling the player whats up,

Contextual messages.

 

The more you kill or avoid killing or the more you HELP people the more you attain a sense of that character, think body language and appearance in general.

NOW how does that translate in game? Well here is a great example of what im trying to describe how it will take place in game. Also do not take it all literally this is just a very open ended explanation which could be done right with the right tweaking.

 

Scenario

2 people, 1 bandit (has killed a few people), 1 survivor (fresh spawn)

Bandit approaches fresh spawn the fresh spawn read at the bottom of the screen his characters thoughts about the bandit

 

(Now here is where it can stay simple or get elaborate.)

1. The intution system could identify without biased (no matter the time alive the player has been)

OR

2. The longer survived the better your intuition becomes.

 

Lets go with example 1 first.

1. The text says "This guy makes me feel uneasy" while the bandit gets text saying "Very clean and fresh looking". That is it, just a simple line of text from your characters thoughts just as though they were letting the player know they are hungry or thirsty. After that they can "Look over the character" (read further down) or make an action just from that line of thought.

 

Now onto example 2.

2. The text from his character says "This person seems hard to read" Due to the bandit being alive a lot longer and being able to hide his true intentions to the less expereienced. The bandit on the other hand gets text saying "A fresh clean clothed individual" implying he is brand spanking new. THAT IS IT.

From there the players decide what they should do, should the bandit kill the clearly fresh spawn without hesitation? should the survivor run or try to interact with this unknown individual?

 

As you can see the "intuition system" plays out just like everything else in the game does, just your character letting the player know whats up in game.

This can be very simple or very elaborate I honestly don't mind either but I think there really should be some depth added to player interaction. Since the game limits what we can see and feel with restricted animations and such, having a system like this I think would really fit dayz.

 

CONTEXTUAL MESSAGES FOR EACH PLAYSTYLE

- There are presets in place to identify the most common forms of play and can be updated as time progress's here are some examples.

 

Bandit/camper (killed lots of people) - "This guy has a blank look in his eye as if nothing bothers him, not even death", or "Does this person have someone elses blood on their cloths?"

 

Bandit/Unknown (shot at/hit possibly killed) - "This guy makes me feel uneasy", or "This person doesn't sit well with me"

 

Survivor (fresh spawn/ not alive for more than a day) - "This guy looks squeaky clean", or "This individual sure seems fresh"

 

Survivor (long time alive/hermit) - "Wow this person sure smells bad", or "I get the feeling this person knows what he's doing"

 

Medic/Person who helps - "I get the feeling this person isn't out to hurt anyone", or "I don't sense any malicious intent"

 

Hero (bandit killer) - "This guy seems like he could be a cop", or "I think this guy is the thing hunting the hunters"

 

NOW REMEMBER THIS IS JUST INTUITION AND CAN BE EITHER A SIMPLE IDENTIFIER OR AN ELABORATE SYSTEM WITH DECEPTION

By that I mean your health and other factors could end up giving you the wrong Idea. Obviously this would fall under the "elaborate" version of the system.

Simply put, if you are sick and therefore possibly delusional, your intuion may be useless or just simply not work at all by just not getting messages at all since you are too concerned with your own health to bother. OR clothing could be a factor (since they seem very proud of the different clothing they have in the game currently this could be a nice factor). If you have been shot and you have ruined clothing and or have bled or are bleeding people would get a contextual message saying: "This guy looks to be in bad shape" or something or other.

And of course trying to mask the fact you are a [insert playstyle here] through clothing could also be an option.

 

IN CONCLUSION

Stand alone is just that A STAND ALONE it is NOT THE MOD so it should not simply be a repolished version of the MOD the devs said themselves that if they wanted to just re-release the mod they would have done it at the end of last year, but instead they wanted to rebuild the game and expand on it. This idea is to do just that. Build upon what already exists and help give more depth, mainly to player interaction. If you read properly and thoroughly THIS IS NOT TRYING TO PUNISH A PLAYSTYLE OVER ANOTHER. IF people want to sit around and snipe let them, if they want to hunt in packs let them, but for the majority of players when they come face to face and just go PEW PEW PEW out of ignorant fear due to lack options for interaction...well that just isn't fun after the 50th time, this is meant to help just that. Also as I said directly above how it would be nice to notice other things besides behaviour of character. Like being to being able to "Look over" or inspect the other person on their current status whether they are hungry/thirsty what have you, this would give much more options for interaction for those who don't wish to use a mic or run their mouth. It would also help people RP a stoic killer or hero.

 

So, love it, hate it? IF so do explain in your comments, if you only like certain parts such as being able to "study body" on alive people but hate the intuition system itself mention why. If you hate the whole thing explain why. I honestly would like more features in stand alone, after all I didn't pay 30 dollars just to replay the mod in its early stages again. I bought it in hopes of more depth and features being added.

 

P.S FEMALES WOULD NOT HAVE BETTER INTUITION THAN MALES

(sorry possible future commenter who was wanting to create a tangent using this)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2014 by Slyguy65

[Element47 2480]

beans for giving the issue thought and effort

 

but i fear, that every system will be "figured out" and abused, similarly how bandits farmed hero skin in the mod.

 

also, i fail to see on what actions exactly your system bases its assertion of a personas character. if a bandit shoots at me, misses me, i shoot back in defense and hit him, am i the bad guy now?

[Gdaddy22 299]

I like this idea.

 

INB4 some smartass will post a picture of crying baby and a comment "L0L GET 0WND N00B U SUK AT DIS GAME CRY M0RE"

[tullyburnalot 26]

This seems like a fantastically wonderful idea!

 

You know what this means, right? It's gonna get the "hot" tag and the scumbags are gonna arrive on force to complain about how this will ruin the game.

[Timmymachine109 (DayZ) 235]

I really like this idea. But as stated above, it is pretty much impossible to tell if someone is firing in self defence

Edited January 5, 2014 by Timmymachine109

[tullyburnalot 26]

I really like this idea. But as stated above, it is pretty much impossible to tell if someone is firing in self defence

 

I'm assuming it falls into the hypothetical "elaborate" version the OP mentioned.

 

Imagine, for instance, that you just happened to kill someone in self defense, but you don't usually kill people. The system wouldn't immediately mark you out as "bad". At leas that's what I'm assuming.

[MysticL 71]

good idea!
i will be glad to see that system in the game

i hope devs will supp that idea :)  :thumbsup:  :beans:  my beans for you

[Tactical Soldier Gaming 20]

It seems well thought out and I like the idea, but I fear it would be hell to script and would be very taxing on our systems.  First off the script would have to search for players near you, identify them, find them in a database, and then recall the information in the database.  Plus the script would constantly have to search for other players, running it that many times would be quite taxing on servers and such... but I'm not very experienced in programming... so maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about.

[Slyguy65 499]

beans for giving the issue thought and effort

 

but i fear, that every system will be "figured out" and abused, similarly how bandits farmed hero skin in the mod.

 

also, i fail to see on what actions exactly your system bases its assertion of a personas character. if a bandit shoots at me, misses me, i shoot back in defense and hit him, am i the bad guy now?

Like I said would require tweaking, the main point is that it would be nice to have a contexual identify system much like study body but for many other things for alive characters.

[Slyguy65 499]

It seems well thought out and I like the idea, but I fear it would be hell to script and would be very taxing on our systems.  First off the script would have to search for players near you, identify them, find them in a database, and then recall the information in the database.  Plus the script would constantly have to search for other players, running it that many times would be quite taxing on servers and such... but I'm not very experienced in programming... so maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about.

I was thinking that too if done in a proximity thing BUT it could be made more simple if made a scroll action just like "study body".

Edited January 5, 2014 by Slyguy65

[Slyguy65 499]

I really like this idea. But as stated above, it is pretty much impossible to tell if someone is firing in self defence

Which is why you would get an ambiguous text message like "Im not sure if I can trust this guy". Thats why i call it bandit/unknown.

[razgriz93@gmail.com 228]

I just.

I need your address.

There's a cargo of beans awaiting for you.

I simply -LOVE- the idea. Might need a few tweaks in order for people not to aim-scan trees in search of texts, but this is great. Really.

[Mutonizer 78]

I propose a different system!

 

- If a guy looks odd and dodgy, with scary face masks or a gas mask or some silly motorcycle helmet...be careful.

- If you see someone at a perfect sniping position and staying there...be careful.

- If you start talking, asking the person you spotted at range to identify himself, and you get no answer...be careful.

- If you engage in conversation and the person you're talking to sounds dodgy...be careful.

- If you tell someone to immediately raise their hands and drop their weapons, and they don't...be careful.

 

Now..what new and improved system would I need in-game for all that?...Hmm...oh wait?

 

Play smart, be smart, decide for yourself...

[ARZUMATA 4]

"This guy makes me feel uneasy"

 

This is the feeling for almost everyone I see through my rifle scope :D

 

But Idea is great.

In RL you often meet people who really makes you uncomfortable and usually there is a reason for it.

Sometimes you are wrong and they become very good ones.

So, beans for ya. :D

[Killerboner 0]

These ideas are very good, this game needs more interaction between the characters than a twelve year old screaming in his mick "Friendly, Friendly, plz dont shoot". Hopefully this "intuition" is an idea that can be added to the game (like Tactical Soldier said, I'm not a programmer either, so I have no idea how hard this would be to create).

[Slyguy65 499]

I just.

I need your address.

There's a cargo of beans awaiting for you.

I simply -LOVE- the idea. Might need a few tweaks in order for people not to aim-scan trees in search of texts, but this is great. Really.

Thanks

[Slyguy65 499]

I propose a different system!

 

- If a guy looks odd and dodgy, with scary face masks or a gas mask or some silly motorcycle helmet...be careful.

- If you see someone at a perfect sniping position and staying there...be careful.

- If you start talking, asking the person you spotted at range to identify himself, and you get no answer...be careful.

- If you engage in conversation and the person you're talking to sounds dodgy...be careful.

- If you tell someone to immediately raise their hands and drop their weapons, and they don't...be careful.

 

Now..what new and improved system would I need in-game for all that?...Hmm...oh wait?

 

Play smart, be smart, decide for yourself...

The problem is the way people "play smart, be smart, and decide" is just shoot or disconnect. Soooo ya.

[Vekaras 7]

Simply love the idea :) .

[{sas}stalker 108]

Would be funny to have random intuition failure (we all do after all) and think a dangerous character is a fresh spawn. You could dwell on that as he saws your limbs off.

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

I like the thought and effort you've put in here, but I really feel that this is building a shortcut mechanic to something you can do in real life - talk to people and observe them. This wouldn't do anything at all for the problems that it's designed to fix. People will still gun you down before you can get within 50 meters of them. I really don't understand the problem people are having here. Essentially, what this does is force, one way or the other, a level system and a class system.

 

Someone is a bandit who's been alive for a long time (a high ranked evil player) or a medic who's only just begun, or a policeman or whatever. It's just another shortcut to you not having to think or use your brain. I really don't understand how it's possible for bandits to be this much of a problem. The only times I've ever been killed by a player in the SA is when walking through a city - a place that is inherently dangerous anyway.

 

The best thing the dev team could do is to lock player names within the game, and to force them to have actual names. When players are able to change their name instantly over Steam, it allows them to escape a previously bad reputation. Facing a player called "420bLAzin" is also incredibly immersion breaking.

 

When I played vanilla WoW (before the content became multi-server), I knew most of the players on my server due to their reputation - tied to their name or guild. It made the world instantly hierarchical and have a sense of history to the place. You would follow the actions of players in the top guilds, or the vendors who ruled the auction house. It also made the world very competitive, and the relationships very important, as the amount of players was finite (10k). You actually had to protect your reputation. If the devs made this a thing in Day Z, I guarantee you'd see banditry drop and cooperation begin, as players who are killed by a bandit previously would show them little to no mercy when they have the upper hand.

[Mutonizer 78]

The problem is the way people "play smart, be smart, and decide" is just shoot or disconnect. Soooo ya.

 

You will never change people who just don't give a damn.

If someone enjoys sitting in the very same spot for 5 hours and sniping fresh spawns for no purpose whatsoever, there is very little you can do but increase the time investment required (more dangerous zombies, less weapon spawn, etc). That'll at best filter some out a bit but you need to realize that some people do nothing but spawn, rush everywhere, find a mosin, find ammo, find a scope, go on a roof somewhere and snipe people for hours, die from dehydration or starvation, and do that all over again, and again, and again. They do not care whatsoever...

 

Alpha being bare-bone content wise and very easy overall, a lot of people are somewhat bored, therefore just do silly things, because they joined the "don't care" category. As content is added, these will fade back into actual DayZ players. Disconnecting/combat logging is just a feature not implemented.

 

Give it time, let the team implement their vision, then in a year or two, we'll see how it goes.

 

For now, I do not feel any need whatsoever for the game telling me something like that. It's all gut feeling, risk/reward. There IS body movement to analyse in DayZ already: see how someone moves around, approaches buildings, etc. There IS psychology already every time you talk to someone and quite often (maybe wrongly) I had gut feeling that the person I was talking to was bullshitting me and I got outta there FAST.

 

Also, I do not need names anywhere. If I meet someone and he tells me his name is Jack, wtf should I know it's not in fact Jack? I mean, if I meet you in a forest, we talked and you asked me my name, I could tell you anything...

Edited January 5, 2014 by Mutonizer

[Alpha Cowboy 17]

This is a great idea, beans for you.

This idea is similar to one I posted earlier, although this fits with the new dynamics of the game much better.

One thing I think most people agree on is that there should be some built in recognition system.

[ChibakuTensei 3]

Great idea, a system really worth thinking about implementing.

 

-the bean king- should take a look at this.

[fig0451 85]

This is a pretty good idea I think. I hope the devs look at implementing something like this.

 

Another way you could do this is by linking reputation to steamid as opposed to the current character. Would be more robust, harder to spoof, but arguably too meta-gamey.

[CGNoodlePot (DayZ) 149]

If someone has a habit of torturing by feeding rotten stuff on others, the act should also effect their bandit meter.