KOS still here, don't see how it will go away

[hypergolem 39]

I was hoping that the standalone will promote some cooperation between players and at least to a certain degree eliminate the KOS trend that basically ruined my experience in the Mod. Fact is that KOS is still here and I cannot see how it will go away. 

I managed to travel from Elektro up to Berezino, didn't meet anybody, everything is OK, decent experience... I reach Krasnostav, and while looting a house I get killed through the window... Did I have good loot on me? No, just a small backpack and the helmet, no guns.

Second game... spawn in Cherno, try to get some basic gear, still in my fresh spawn tee shirt, checking a building, I come out of the door and bang bang...

Do I want to play again, yes! But damn it is frustrating...

What to do to limit KOS? Should it go away? In a real world scenario I don't think people would be killing other people like that, for moral and practical reasons... In DayZ? Just the opposite, morality = weakness, for practical reasons if you can kill another player first is better for you... Kill or be killed

But I hoped it would be different... maybe I'm naive...

[inexorable 26]

The first night of the release, i saw 4 friendly guys in 1 hour and no one tried to kill me

 

Then, the next days, when the release was all over the internet, more and more KoS players came to ruin dayz once more

Edited December 20, 2013 by Inexorable

[chester222 1]

I don't think it was meant to go away.

 

In fact...

 

This game would likely be an abysmal failure if it was ever even remotely intended for KoS to "go away".

[thelonewarrior 886]

Also bear in mind that the zombies are low numbers and don't respawn so people still have nothing to do at the moment

[Jaygoon 240]

Butthurt cos you just got killed?

 

You could try The Sims, I heard people dont KoS in that game.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Jaygoon

[eleventhavenue 204]

Well I do feel like KOS has decreased somewhat, at least. (Atleast when staying off the coast and the military areas)

 

Just recently I waited for a few friends in the Stary Sobor church. I literally sat down, and only had an axe, so I was defenceless. In comes two players in Military clothes, gas masks and M4's. I though that this was the end, but after making sure that I was not able to harm them, the immediatly became friendly. I read from the bible to them (don't ask) and later my friend came running in with a raised Mosin... but they, amazingly, didn't shoot, but kept their heads cool.  They left shortly afterwards, and I didn't see them again.

[hypergolem 39]

I don't think it was meant to go away.

 

In fact...

 

This game would likely be an abysmal failure if it was ever even remotely intended for KoS to "go away".

I'm not saying it should go away completely. But killing somebody who clearly is not a danger for you, or will not bring any benefits is insane. I would like to see a nice fight between two clans, a battle over the control of a condo building, that would be realistic.

[hypergolem 39]

Well I do feel like KOS has decreased somewhat, at least. (Atleast when staying off the coast and the military areas)

 

Just recently I waited for a few friends in the Stary Sobor church. I literally sat down, and only had an axe, so I was defenceless. In comes two players in Military clothes, gas masks and M4's. I though that this was the end, but after making sure that I was not able to harm them, the immediatly became friendly. I read from the bible to them (don't ask) and later my friend came running in with a raised Mosin... but they, amazingly, didn't shoot, but kept their heads cool.  They left shortly afterwards, and I didn't see them again.

That sounds nice, maybe it was just my bad luck in the last games played... Oh well, lets go in again ;-)

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

chester222, on 20 Dec 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

I don't think it was meant to go away.

 

In fact...

 

This game would likely be an abysmal failure if it was ever even remotely intended for KoS to "go away".

im going to disagree and say that if someway to combat KoS isnt found and designed into DayzSA, the game will fail long term due to people tiring of endless DMing..

 

im not saying remove PVP, cuz PVP between like minded players is totaly different then a 1 sided fight killing freshies on the coast.

 

combat at NWAF between players all geared up, is awesome... asshats running around popping/axeing everyone they see instantly on the coast is both lame and a total missing of the entire point of DayZ.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Siberian

[blitz 64]

Also bear in mind that the zombies are low numbers and don't respawn so people still have nothing to do at the moment

 

 

I hate to be a Debbie downer, but the map could be full of zombies and KOS would still happen. In fact a zombie could be chewing on some guys ass and he would turn and fire at the nearest player, instead of the zombie that is eating him.

 

Battlestar Galactica springs to mind.

 

"All of this happened before, and it will happen again!"

[Wookieenoob 191]

I was hoping that the standalone will promote some cooperation between players and at least to a certain degree eliminate the KOS trend that basically ruined my experience in the Mod. Fact is that KOS is still here and I cannot see how it will go away. 

I managed to travel from Elektro up to Berezino, didn't meet anybody, everything is OK, decent experience... I reach Krasnostav, and while looting a house I get killed through the window... Did I have good loot on me? No, just a small backpack and the helmet, no guns.

Second game... spawn in Cherno, try to get some basic gear, still in my fresh spawn tee shirt, checking a building, I come out of the door and bang bang...

Do I want to play again, yes! But damn it is frustrating...

What to do to limit KOS? Should it go away? In a real world scenario I don't think people would be killing other people like that, for moral and practical reasons... In DayZ? Just the opposite, morality = weakness, for practical reasons if you can kill another player first is better for you... Kill or be killed

But I hoped it would be different... maybe I'm naive...

 

 

with the (presumed) addition of non-lethal weapons (probably after the systems for them are developed, like tranquiliser darts), as well as ammo becoming more scarce (rocket said something about wanting it to be more of a hunt to find items you want), you may see a decrease in KOS. people won't want to use their precious ammunition, or you'll be able to stun them, (loot them) and move away

 

after the game gets more established people will forget the mod and start to cooperate.

 

pvp wont go away though, people like being bandits. even with less ammo and tranquiliser darts in your favour you're still gonna get shot at.

 

if you want you can add me on steam and i'll show you the new military spawns above nwaf, and we could go to the new town

Edited December 20, 2013 by Wookieenoob

[hypergolem 39]

Butthurt cos you just got killed?

 

You could try The Sims, I heard people dont KoS in that game.

Butthurt? LOL no... I played the mod for too long to be butthurt for being killed. I was pissed of of course the first times I played the mod and got killed after 2 days of surviving. Now not anymore, but sure I don't want this to be CoD... 

[mercules 1290]

PVP should never go away. 

However, when I spawn in Cherno and another player spawns nearby It's a bit silly that I need to instantly defend myself against a fist fight so he can... Um... loot my batterie? Tear my shirt into rags now that I likely left him bleeding and he needs one? Or... what? :)

[victusmortuus 1074]

Earlier I was in Berezino with my friend, we'd just recently been shot at in Krastnostav industrial, whilst my friend was looting the pub we heard Pistol shots very near by, I slowly opened the door, seen him running through the road. I aimed my Mosin at his chest, followed him for a second and then pulled the trigger.

 

Did he deserve to die with no interaction? 

 

A few hours later I was on the east coast near Solnichniy trying to meet a friend who'd spawned in Elektro, still with my other friend from earlier in the day, we happened to get lost in the woods. I told him to head to the road/traintracks where we would meet back up. I lay down and he tells me there are two guys close by with M4's. I stay prone, take up aim and wait, soon enough one rolls by, no hesitation BANG. Next guy panics and runs into a tree, he crouches. I sit up from my prone state, take aim. BANG. Second guy down. 

 

To my right about 1 minute later I see a new spawn with a Hatchet running on the train track right by me and my friend, we let him live, he is no threat. 

 

Should the two guys have died in this situation? The answer is yes to both as both were an immediate threat.

[Wookieenoob 191]

PVP should never go away. 

However, when I spawn in Cherno and another player spawns nearby It's a bit silly that I need to instantly defend myself against a fist fight so he can... Um... loot my batterie? Tear my shirt into rags now that I likely left him bleeding and he needs one? Or... what? :)

i spawned at balota at the same time as four other people. they all immediately started beating eachother up, i ran into the military camp, found some handcuffs, ran back, and handcuffed the victor

 

people need to learn to get along in situations where there's litterally no value in killing. fistfight to the death for no loot? yeah good idea

[ParaB 114]

Is it really so hard to understand that yes, non-consensual PvP is awesome, but that the "shoot everything that moves lolz" mentality of parts of the playerbase is killing the gameplay for everyone interested in a bit more than deathmatch with Zombie NPCs?

Edited December 20, 2013 by ParaB

[blitz 64]

Oh and I forgot to add this.

 

Some KOS happen, because the guy/killer is sick of dealing with idiots.

 

Like last night, a guy took a few shots at me and missed I got myself in a good spot and waited him out, he came looking and got a face full on M4, but not before hitting me once with his Mosin.

 

Or like a guy I bumped into this morning, I saw him, warned him to stay away. He kept on getting closer with an axe in hand, I warned him again and fired a warning shot, he still got closer. At which point, I put him down and then had to listen to him scream like a child in chat.

 

Another guy later that morning tried sneaking up on me, I spotted him, warned him, but he never responded once in chat, I warned him again, telling him, I saw that he was trying to flank me. He still never answered, so I shot him in the leg and left him to die.

 

So some people just think it's easier to kill a player they spot, rather than have to deal with muppets that haven't got two brain cells to rub together. I am not really one of them, but because of that, I am half blind from an injury and struggling to find anything to heal myself. 5 hours playing with blurry vision is a pain in the ass.

[kottton 5]

 

i spawned at balota at the same time as four other people. they all immediately started beating eachother up, i ran into the military camp, found some handcuffs, ran back, and handcuffed the victor

 

people need to learn to get along in situations where there's litterally no value in killing. fistfight to the death for no loot? yeah good idea

 

 

if they all just spawned how the hell would they know there wasnt any loot in balota?  story seems legit, im sure the victor just stood there while you cuffed him. 

Edited December 20, 2013 by kottton

[Wookieenoob 191]

 

 

 

 

if they all just spawned how the hell would they know there wasnt any loot in balota?  story seems legit, im sure the victor just stood there while you cuffed him. 

 

 

they didn't know there wasn't any loot, they were too busy beating eachother up.

[kottton 5]

they didn't know there wasn't any loot, they were too busy beating eachother up.

they were beating eachother up because  each one wanted whatever loot would be in the city to their self. 

Edited December 20, 2013 by kottton

[zordon 0]

And it won't go away, it might even be worse than in the mod because there're bearly any zombies in the map people get bored of walking/looting for hours without any kind of hostile interaction. 

 

There're also other things that i think hinder the chances of cooperation between strangers, but i think they're mainly communication issues... i mean there's bearly any, 3/10 people have or use microphones to communicate ingame. Personally i don't even try to talk with people without them, recently i've been using skype so interactions with strangers have been reduced to KOS or avoid.

 

I know the plan right now is to keep the game's screen with little to no text/icons if possible, but we need to come with ways of making the players without mics have a way to show they're interested in talking rather than killing you. For example make text chat more noticeable so people don't miss the small white text on the bottom left corner of the screen and proceed to unload their gun on someone who was just asking for some food.

 

One easy way to do this would be to make the text float above the players head, changing the texts color to bright red, or put some animations/icons to let you see the other player's typing. But I can see that bothering some players, and the only less intrusive way that came to my mind where voice commands, something simple like "friendly" would save alot of lifes. 

 

Then again those things might be BIG immersion breakers for some. That said this has to be addressed at some point or another, basing the whole experience around the idea that everyone is going to have a microphone and try to communicate will make the KOS even worse in the long run.

Edited December 20, 2013 by OfficerBeepsky

[zordon 0]

Double post sorry.

Edited December 20, 2013 by OfficerBeepsky

[ozyalpha 0]

I feel the same. I think that killing another player should be a decision that is a bit harder to make. maybe in future with more zombies, shooting will be a bad choice ?

[SneezeJunky 12]

I don't know about you. But i've found more friendly players than KOS players. For me, KOS mostly happens when you go north, because then people got alot of stuff to lose. Yesterday I ran into an heavily armed dude in Zelenogorsk at the military area. We both got a bit of a surprise bumping into each other. But we didn't try to kill one another. Instead we chatted for a bit and went our sperate ways. 

 

I also heard a guy shoot later that day. Think he was shooting zombies. Even though I was fully geared I just ran away, no point in investigating the matter and get my self killed.

 

The only time I had to shoot and kill another palyer was when I was looting one of the military aread up north when two guys bust into the same house as me. I got surprised and just shot one of them without saying a word because I was too scared to lose my loot. Ended up killing the other one aswell, because I couldn't convince him that I got surprised by his friend. 

 

But to sum it up. I've met more friendly people than KOS players

[Gator Biggs 22]

I think the zeds need to be a real threat, and in bigger numbers than they are now.. [though i've heard this is being looked at] So people are forced to work together to stay alive.

Once thats implemented, having gunshots aggro'ing zeds within a much wider radius would make people think twice about using guns. Maybe if you picture a huge circle of aggro when you fire, the zeds in the immediate vicinity come running, the one's further out start walking towards the sound, and the others at the very edge of the gunshots radius start slowly shuffling in that direction.. This way people know once they've fired a gun they have an immediate threat, a handful of zeds incoming. If they don't work together and get moving there's more incoming but at a slower rate.

 

Slightly off topic, but you see where i'm going.