Bloodbagging.

[Styliaan 1]

Well, after a little testing and trying to find a new spawn, weve suceeded in our first bloodbag.

 

Feel sorry for the poor new spawn we surrounded with M4's, handcuffed and syphoned blood out of though.

Especially after he realised what we were doing, and tried to flee in the slow handcuffed pace.

 

The crowbar ending probably wasnt needed, but none of us had keys, and he did attempt to flee.

[+PL+ Faded 6]

Beat him tell he dies!!!! Then drain him some more!!!

[xInfinityx 44]

I think you should be able to self bloodbag and self saline yourself. You should just be forced to sit for a while as it works. Using a partner should be instant.  It is dumb that I can't give myself an IV.

[semipr0 402]

Rocket's always been very big on the dependency angle when it comes to recovery from injury.

 

Its a nice idea in theory but its never going to work with this player community. Especially now given how much more complex the system is even as compared to the original mod system.

 

So don't get me wrong...I really like the thought thats going into the medical system but Rocket continues to believe that if he forces people to need other people to survive, they'll somehow stop killing each other on sight...and its the dumbest idea this side of invading Russia in the winter.

 

Give it up Rocket, I love your medical interactivity with the SA...but making blood bags the only method of healing isn't going to get me to trust a bunch of yahoos I don't know and I'm not going to sit around and wait for three or four friends to be playing at the same time to play the game.

Edited December 18, 2013 by semipr0

[semipr0 402]

Actually now that I think about it, as complex as the blood transfusion system is (and again, don't get me wrong, I'm super impressed by the realism of it)...it actually detracts from people attempting to survive at all.

 

Think about it for a moment, the average player base is generally going to approach this from only one direction once they understand that there is no other way to heal effectively. They're just not going to bother.

 

People will simply grab whatever weapon they can, try to kill as many people as they can and then die and respawn and do it again...why? Cause surviving is too hard to do without having people directly on hand to help you. So the focus on player codependence actually reinforces the KOS mentality here.....death is inevitable, even if you have a friend you're playing with they might not have the right blood type, so whats the point in trying to capture people and find someone you can turn into an unwilling blood sack? Its faster and will be generally held to be more fun to simply ruin as many peoples days as you can til you die.

 

I'm all for hardcore survival, but the complexity of the health recovery system has a higher potential to push towards murder because they know they're going to die fairly quickly anyways.

[Tara505 18]

Rocket's always been very big on the dependency angle when it comes to recovery from injury.

 

Its a nice idea in theory but its never going to work with this player community. Especially now given how much more complex the system is even as compared to the original mod system.

 

So don't get me wrong...I really like the thought thats going into the medical system but Rocket continues to believe that if he forces people to need other people to survive, they'll somehow stop killing each other on sight...and its the dumbest idea this side of invading Russia in the winter.

 

Give it up Rocket, I love your medical interactivity with the SA...but making blood bags the only method of healing isn't going to get me to trust a bunch of yahoos I don't know and I'm not going to sit around and wait for three or four friends to be playing at the same time to play the game.

Wait... we can only heal via these blood bag things? Is there an injury status that I'm not aware of? Because bandages and rags seem to work just fine for me when a zombie manages to get a hit on me.

 

Also the idea of being forced to rely on other players puts a bad taste in my mouth. x__x I'm fine and happy with just running the moment I see anybody or even attempting to kill them maybe for loot if I'm feeling cocky. I really don't want to have to rely on anyone. I'm seriously hoping you're wrong here, because that'd be a big let down for me.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Tara505

[xInfinityx 44]

Rocket has stated you heal over time if your hunger and thirst is satisfied.  I feel that having to rely on someone for bloodbag or IV is quite silly. It should be better if you use a partner but not impossible.

[semipr0 402]

Wait... we can only heal via these blood bag things? Is there an injury status that I'm not aware of? Because bandages and rags seem to work just fine for me when a zombie manages to get a hit on me.

 

Also the idea of being forced to rely on other players puts a bad taste in my mouth. x__x I'm fine and happy with just running the moment I see anybody or even attempting to kill them maybe for loot if I'm feeling cocky. I really don't want to have to rely on anyone. I'm seriously hoping you're wrong here, because that'd be a big let down for me.

 

Bandages stop bleeding, they don't recover lost blood.

 

Current understanding of the SA mechanics is that the only way to replace blood volume is two very realistic methods of doing so

1. Being administered a IV saline drip to replace lost blood volume (efficiency unknown but believed to be far less efficient than a transfusion)
2. Being administered a whole blood transfusion by another player.

Now thats pretty realistic to a certain degree. And as a paramedic I actually applaud the lean towards realism here but its problematic in a game environment because to do either of the above you need

1. An IV Start Kit
2. A bag of Normal Saline
3. Someone else to apply said bag of Saline

In the case of a transfusion you need the following.

1. An IV Start Kit
2. A RbH Blood Testing Kit
3. A syringe.
4. A small pool of individuals willing to be blood tested that don't mind donating a portion of their total overall blood volume.
5. The luck of the irish that one of those individuals has a matching blood type and in the long drawn out process of finding all the supplies needed for this adventure that you or your blood donor haven't been blown away by someone that could give a rats ass about blood transfusions.

Oh and theres always the chance of infection from using unsterilized equipment so you need to also potentially have a bottle of disinfectant spray and/or a bottle of isopropyl alcohol on hand to ensure you don't get ill from trying to get well. Which again is completely realistic but just another cherry on the shit sundae at this point.

 

I don't think this medical system should be scrapped, but I do think there need to be homeopathic alternatives and if anything if you have bandaged and taken care to eat regularly and stay hydrated you should regain blood volume over time naturally cause thats how it happens in real biology generally, though generally losing more than 30% of your total blood volume in the real world is a quick trip to unconsciousness and shock, but not so much in DayZ...cause its a game....except when it comes to attempting to recover from severe injury...then its "realistic".

Edited December 18, 2013 by semipr0

[semipr0 402]

Rocket has stated you heal over time if your hunger and thirst is satisfied.  I feel that having to rely on someone for bloodbag or IV is quite silly. It should be better if you use a partner but not impossible.

 

If he means "over time" as in....several days, then perhaps.

 

Yesterday I spent the better part of about 10 hours viewing the world in black and white, not because it was night time either, but simply because my blood volume was so low I was literally unable to see color any more. I ate regularly and stayed hydrated and even stayed out of major areas where I'd get injured again and not once did I ever begin to see colors again. After logging off to have dinner and logging back in...the update went through and that character was lost, but I didn't much care it was nice to be able to see again.

[xInfinityx 44]

Yeah, I haven't confirmed this personally. I just know he said that it would take 40 minutes from about half blood while fully sated. Maybe the system isn't working correctly yet. If eating gives you blood then eating a lot of food should begin to raise your blood.

[semipr0 402]

Yeah, I haven't confirmed this personally. I just know he said that it would take 40 minutes from about half blood while fully sated. Maybe the system isn't working correctly yet. If eating gives you blood then eating a lot of food should begin to raise your blood.

 

Perhaps that only applies to cooked food. I did try the old DayZ mod standard of woofing down as many cans of food as my stomach could hold and didn't get anything out of them really.

 

Also I'm not entirely sure if time logged off counts towards natural blood recovery as I'd logged off on the top of a castle tower for a few hours and then logged back in and everything was still black and white for me. Then later as I said I logged back in after the update and the character was gone.

 

Natural recovery makes total sense biologically, but I'm not sure its actually working.

[forddefect 14]

Bandages stop bleeding, they don't recover lost blood.............

 

"excellent post"

 

...then its "realistic".

 

I Have to agree with you Semipr0, it make more sense for a team to watch the corpse or carry the loot of a friend than to attempt to heal them. 

 

Been able to respawn then run back to your guarded corpse, or rendezvous with friends carrying your stuff is generally quicker than the alternative. Searching for required items, performing the crafting and then the actions on the injured player.Also if you don't already have everything to heal at the time you can't estimate how long it take to complete, however you can guess how long it take to get from spawn point to rendezvous.

 

So healing as a means to encourage teamplay in its current form is undermined by 'not behaving in the spirit of the game' and it probably most valuable to people who are not currently working in a team. 

 

Ideally players need something about their characters that transcends loot and  inconvenience. Something that other team member actually value too.  

[Styliaan 1]

We have had no problems healing with max food/drink.

You have to ignore that lil status "hunger/thirst" crap, like we were before it.

 

Eat/drink till green message saying full, or quenched or whatever.

Dont wait till your next warning, u need to keep it at max, if your getting a message, it has dropped below max and you arent getting health regen.

 

The way the game is at the moment in alpha is a reason to kill more. Guns and ammo i still find easy, find a new gun, you grab its attachments to make up for the degradation on your gun. So weapons arent a problem.

Heading back to town (Balota to cherno, and the newish built areas between and slightly north) have the biggest amount of lootable buildings in the smallest distance to travel. Also with the most amount of players(who also have food/drink/clothes in better condition).

 

The only reason were finding we need to leave this area, is the trip to the military compunds from kamenka to nwaf, to grab another 300 rounds of cmag or more on the way up and back.

Right now, exploring seems to be a risk, head to middle of nowhere and use all your food/drink getting back to face possible combat to replace it as you get back.

With no endgame, its easier to follow the same areas we know that will allow us to survive and test what we want.

 

Bloodbagging weve worked out.

Degradation of weapons only seems to affect attachments so far, which in no way seems to effect pvp, especially when you kill a player with a gun, you can just take their attachments.

Havent figured out how to use cookpot, even with a working gas/stove.

Some of the medical supplies seem to use the entire amount (had 8 antibiotic tabs, tried to have one, it used up all 8).

Not sure how to chop wood, but i do have matches and firewood, testing it out next.

Some buildings weve noticed are buggy, involving stairs(castles and first floor old hospital model) can still get up but can get stuck trying to walk up.

Random sounds, direct being server wide etc.

Not being 100% when you have a wound(no blood/no effect on clothes) losing health. Only message when you randomly bandage/take antibiotics and it says "wound is looking better" or something.

 

As a group we can survive easy enough, and regen health, travel etc. So it does seem so much better as a squad game, Half the things we have found/tested couldve been suicide without a team, so i feel sorry for anyone playing this alone.

With a team of 3 we havent had any problems healing, but to do what we do, we are killing a lot to steal items. Or as in my OP, testing things on unarmed new spawns instead of risking ourselves and having to meet up again after a long run.

But in saying that, we are also having most players run at us with axes, rocks, pistols, m4's etc and we maybe lose a player or 2, but have never been completely wiped out. 

Ive died once in 14 hours of play(shot from close range by m4, my friend killed him and we gained all his meds/ammo).

 

I absolutely love the team aspect of it, but i do hope later additions of hunting etc will make it easy to lone wolf aswell. The health system(not including thirst and hunger) i think is a huge problem at the moment, with the assortment of possible ailments with no way of knowing which one(again, there may be a telltale sign were missing). But we do seem to do a try all methods to fix those problems, usually with items we killed for, or killed to access the area.

[icefluid 8]

Bandages stop bleeding, they don't recover lost blood.

 

Current understanding of the SA mechanics is that the only way to replace blood volume is two very realistic methods of doing so

1. Being administered a IV saline drip to replace lost blood volume (efficiency unknown but believed to be far less efficient than a transfusion)
2. Being administered a whole blood transfusion by another player.

 

You do indeed heal over time when your hydration and "energy" levels are full. Therefor there is no dependency on other players.