"Valuing Player Lives" Faulty Logic

[dutch_miller 159]

Recently, almost every thread I've read has said the same thing: We need to increase the value of the player's life. We need to make people care about their character.

 

Their logic is that it will stop KoS'ing. It won't. What everybody fails to realize is that the value of a player's life is one of the major reasons for KoS.

 

The average player is a bandit simply because they kill whoever they see. Why? It's a few reasons, but one of the most prominent is that they don't want to die and lose their gear. And in DayZ, your gear is your life. Making them value that gear even more than they already do is going to do a few things:

 

1. Make people more careful. Seemingly a good thing, at first. It will make people cautious, and it will likely reduce the amount of possible player interactions; but that isn't the problem.

 

2. Make people on edge. This is the problem. People are going to be constantly afraid of dying and losing their gear. Since every player is a potential threat, players are then afraid of other players. When that happens, people are going to shoot first because they don't want to die. If they kill everyone they see, they eliminate every threat. It's smart, it's the best way to go if you want to live; the mod proves this. The best way to live, and save your gear, is to kill every threat.

 

 

KoS will be stopped through a combination of ways. There is no one simple fix. But it boils down, in its simplest form, is that you have to make people WANT to not kill everyone you see. Don't punish them if they do, don't make them afraid of players. Give them a reason to work together.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Dutch Miller

[goo0gle 249]

<'gooogle translation'>

 

Maybe must give friendly player more health point then the bandits.

Then if the sniper make a shoot you are not death.

Like maybe a 50.000 blood.

Edited August 9, 2013 by goo0gle

[rossums 2190]

The only real way to stop the KoS mentality is to make it not worth it, that is literally the only way.
Whether it be via increased threat from players, zombies or whatever else.
 

If someone has a high chance of dying (or being put into a position which will cause them to die) just to kill you, they will think twice about revealing themselves.
The problem is there doesn't seem to be any obvious method in implementing this without feeling overly artificial other than adding content which will force players to work together to defend themselves from a greater threat.

[Korsbaek 1778]

The only real way to stop the KoS mentality is to make it not worth it, that is literally the only way.

Whether it be via increased threat from players, zombies or whatever else.

 

If someone has a high chance of dying (or being put into a position which will cause them to die) just to kill you, they will think twice about revealing themselves.

The problem is there doesn't seem to be any obvious method in implementing this without feeling overly artificial other than adding content which will force players to work together to defend themselves from a greater threat.

 

People shoot fresh spawns all the time. They aren't worth it, but people do it anyway.

[AP_Norris 1018]

People shoot fresh spawns all the time. They aren't worth it, but people do it anyway.

That's because, there's no point in working with players you meet and the end game stuff can be reached too quickly.

[dutch_miller 159]

The only real way to stop the KoS mentality is to make it not worth it, that is literally the only way.

Whether it be via increased threat from players, zombies or whatever else.

 

 

 

I feel like that is almost the reverse of the approach I would take. Instead of making killing players not worth it, make working with them worth it enough not to kill them.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Dutch Miller

[AP_Norris 1018]

I feel like that is almost the reverse of the approach I would take. Instead of making killing players not worth it, make working with them worth it enough not to kill them.

Yep, I still think there should be bandits.

Primarily people that actually choose to play like that. Not people forced to because everybody just KOS even when you try and be friendly.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

KoS will not be stopped. Ever. It can only be shifted away from the norm for player interaction.

 

What we need are more cooperative actions. We need more things to literally require the presence of another player. That is the only way to alter player interaction in a way to decrease kill on sight and increase cooperative action. It still won't stop banditry though, and that's certainly a good thing, because bandits will have to be smarter about their banditry.

 

Even the most ruthless KoS bandit might want to build a fort one day. If he literally couldn't do it on his own, he'd have to team up with other players - these could be his personal friends, strangers, who knows - or he could even force someone to help him at gunpoint, which would be interesting behavior indeed.

 

The point is that human labor and skill is highly valuable in real life, because human beings have limitations. Of course KoS won't stop. That's ridiculous to even think. The difference is that people who actually want to form groups would have something to do and accomplish.

 

Currently the real problem with the game is that there is no meat. There's hardly anything to explore, loot, ect. The zombies aren't really that much of an issue. The mod just feels like Orienteering plus basic survival plus guns, plus other players, plus some pretty easy zombies. It doesn't really feel like the zombie apocalypse. There's nothing to survive from, nothing to build, therefore nothing to do. Once you've seen every nook and cranny of the empty map the game begins to feel precisely that way - empty. So people kill each other, for fun. It's the only challenging opponent in the game. Other players have become the equivalent of "boss fights."

 

So what we really need is more cooperative gameplay.

[rossums 2190]

People shoot fresh spawns all the time. They aren't worth it, but people do it anyway.

It's because people derive entertainment from killing people that can't fight back, the 'worth' doesn't have to be a physical item as a reward.

It's a free kill with next to no repercussions.