Zombie Aggro Realism

[Shabadu_ 66]

I looked through the first ten pages of threads and didn't spot a similar one, sorry if this has been covered before.

Essentially, I don't like the way the zombies aggro onto players... apparently if you make a noise near them, they instantly lock onto you and chase you down. This seems a little odd because it happens even if they have no line of sight.

I would have thought a more realistic system would be to have them move towards sound sources such as footsteps, gunshots, animals, engines etc... whether they move fast or slow would probably depend upon the type of noise.

Once they have line of sight to a human player, then I don't see why they can't "lock on" at that stage. I just don't think it's particularly realistic to have them automatically know what it is they're chasing before they see it. They're supposed to be essentially dumb animals.

I'm not sure what the limitations with this engine are as far as my suggestion goes, so I appreciate if it doesn't work this way but I wanted to put this out there anyway. Also, from what I can tell this engine is the same as the OFP engine, I thought it had been rebuilt from the ground up? Awful handling of buildings and water and such like :( Not only that but it chugs on my quad-core system and yet looks no better than the original that ran quite comfortably on my old 1GHz Celeron rig!

[squidgyb 0]

yes - I agree wholeheartedly.

I've been trying to come up with a full breakdown on how (imho) zombie aggro should work, combining LOS, stealth/cover and noise, and it all boils down to pretty much this suggestion.

The main idea would be to have a two tier zombie agro - "inquisitive zombie" and full on arms flailing sprinting "give me brains" zombie.

Being seen on the edge of zombie vision, or any noise detection should trigger "inquisitive zombie" behaviour, and being seen on the edge of zombie vision or hearing a noise would only cause true zombie aggro through LOS confirmation. Eg - someone fires a gun in a town - zombies within hearing distance will gravitate towards that point, crucially changing their LOS to face the player. It is only when a zombie gets close enough that the player is within the zombie's cone of vision, and that stealth/cover criteria are met that full aggro is seen.

I'd like to have clothing effect the stealth indicator, as well as cover, posture, speed of movement and ambient light. Noise should be a separate mechanic which leads to target acquisition through visual identification.

[Shabadu_ 66]

yes - I agree wholeheartedly.

I've been trying to come up with a full breakdown on how (imho) zombie aggro should work' date=' combining LOS, stealth/cover and noise, and it all boils down to pretty much this suggestion.

The main idea would be to have a two tier zombie agro - "inquisitive zombie" and full on arms flailing sprinting "give me brains" zombie.

Being seen on the edge of zombie vision, or any noise detection should trigger "inquisitive zombie" behaviour, and being seen on the edge of zombie vision or hearing a noise would only cause true zombie aggro through LOS confirmation. Eg - someone fires a gun in a town - zombies within hearing distance will gravitate towards that point, crucially changing their LOS to face the player. It is only when a zombie gets close enough that the player is within the zombie's cone of vision, and that stealth/cover criteria are met that full aggro is seen.

I'd like to have clothing effect the stealth indicator, as well as cover, posture, speed of movement and ambient light. Noise should be a separate mechanic which leads to target acquisition through visual identification.

[/quote']

Absolutely spot-on!

[Tyrog 10]

Interesting idea! :)

[squidgyb 0]

The other idea I have for calculating stealth might be exactly how it's done now, or maybe just a slight change - or even whether some of the changes are possible or not.

Essentially, with my idea the number of stealth "bars" on the HUD indicator would need increasing, or at least the background calculation would be more complex that what is suggested by the current indicator.

I can see stealth being separated into a (relatively) simple system of four "additive" number functions, along with a multiplier.

What I mean is that clothing, posture, speed and cover all add up to give a number - this number is then multiplied by the ambient light factor (either directly linked to the actual ambient light value, or simplified to be tied to time of day and/or moon cycle).

So:

Clothing; Civvy = 2, Camo = 1, Ghillie = 0

Posture; Stand = 2, Crouch = 1, Prone = 0

Speed; Run = 2, Walk = 1, Still = 0

Cover; None = 2, Grass = 1, Bushes = 0

So at the very least we have a scale from 0 - 8. 0 is invisible, i.e. wearing a ghillie suit, prone, not moving and under a bush. 8 is fully visible, wearing civvy clothing while standing up, running on tarmac/concrete.

Have this multiplied by an arbitrary number tied to ambient light values - we can have a scale from 0-10 (9-10 may be needed for, I dunno, spotlit players? travelling in a vehicle?)

What I imagine is a scale from 0-10 tied to zombie's visual range (this does NOT take into account LOS, that would have to be a different calculation). The range itself is arbitrary as well - the best max range settings for zombie aggro would be determined by playtesting and tweaking.

The crux of the system is that when in the cone of vision of a zombie, your stealth "number " is compared to your range from the zombie - if your stealth number is lower than the number according to your distance to the zombie, you'd be ok. Again, the two tier "inquisitive" behaviour could come into this if you're on the cusp of being seen.

This tied with the noise aggro mechanic described in the previous posts would and LOS mechanics that rocket is already working on would make for a very dynamic, stealthy, and deadly zombie filled environment.

If I had time, I'd do some diagrams, maybe later tonight when I'm not at work...

e: I hope I explained that in an understandable fashion - I may come back to edit this post later today but I don't have time at the moment to give it the going over it probably needs

[sgtsnug 26]

I've made a much similar suggestion to this in several threads myself in the past. Zombies should at a distance to gunshots and footsteps only walk toward the source of the sound much like they do with cans and bottles currently until the sound reaches a certain volume level or they get line of sight.

This would make a lot of weapons available much more useful such as the lee Enfield or any sniper rifle so that you can take a shot or two and move before the roaming horde wanders too close.

It would stop situations like being in a church and firing one shot resulting in every zombie in city stampeding in and nearly being endless in their hoarding, instead they would surround the church and wander in and if your stupid enough to hang around or can't find a hiding spot they will get you.

[squidgyb 0]

Yes! A shot within a house certainly shouldn't lead zombies directly to your location - rather they should all move to the doors, then amble in aimlessly, blocking the exits but not being immediately aggroed. Either at the door, or possibly just an increased density of zombies resulting from those that heard the shot moving in the general direction of the noise.

[Blasty 0]

Also, why are zombies so fast? It makes no sense, really...

[leo235 2]

YES

I think there are many threads on Zombie-Aggro behaviour

I think this is so basic that rocket would have to be as inept with making games as you are with using the search function

I think the problem lies more with making that actually work AI-wise

[squidgyb 0]

yeah, a concern of mine while thinking about this would be server/client lag due to calculations being done for the AI, and whether attributes can be linked to ambient light or time of day.

[Shabadu_ 66]

YES

I think there are many threads on Zombie-Aggro behaviour

I think this is so basic that rocket would have to be as inept with making games as you are with using the search function

I think the problem lies more with making that actually work AI-wise

lol rude much?

I don't think it would be difficult to do and judging by what has been produced so far Rocket clearly isn't inept. My main point is about the zombies "locking on" based purely on sound and whether or not the engine will allow the sort of behaviour suggested.

I'm not sure that the same point has been made before and I didn't see a suitable thread ten pages of threads in (as previously explained) so...

[fundan@gmx.de 82]

This sounds like a very good idea.

[squidgyb 0]

Also, as a side note... get rid of that "twig break" in the ambient soundtrack. The number of times in the first week I dived prone and scanned around me every time I heard that sample is unbelievable. At least tie it to a wild boar or someone else within hearing distance. I could believe that it's *me* stepping on the twig, but it's even got a direction when used as an ambient noise. There should be *something* breaking that twig.

[Shabadu_ 66]

Also' date=' as a side note... get rid of that "twig break" in the ambient soundtrack. The number of times in the first week I dived prone and scanned around me every time I heard that sample is unbelievable. At least tie it to a wild boar or someone else within hearing distance. I could believe that it's *me* stepping on the twig, but it's even got a direction when used as an ambient noise. There should be *something* breaking that twig.

[/quote']

Same goes for that fence rattle!!!

[bj.laforest@yahoo.com 0]

ALL OF MY YES